Do Hebrews 3:6 and/or 3:14 prove the P of TULIP?

[Freedom Now]

We are never instructed anywhere in Scripture to base our assurance on whether or not we think we are predestined. Again, that is simply not given for us to know. Our assurance is based on Christ's faithfulness.

Now, there is debate over whether or not true assurance is possible. Some say it is, others say it isn't. I am not sure where I stand on that issue. It seems to me that 1 John was written to outline ways in which we can be assured that we are saved. After all, he says that he wrote "so that you may know that you have eternal life."


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Let me ask you this,..

Do you know that you have eternal life?

 

[TaylorSexton]

Do you know that you have eternal life?

If I have believed on the Son of God, then according to Scripture, I do. I rest in that.

 

[Freedom Now]

If I have believed on the Son of God, then according to Scripture, I do. I rest in that.

I noticed that you are a student at a divinity school, so I assume you have done in depth study
on what it means to believe.


Could you please explain in simple understandable terms for those that are not theologically educated,

what it means...I have believe on the Son of God... and what it all entails.


Thank you for your time in doing this for us.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I noticed that you are a student at a divinity school, so I assume you have done in depth study on what it means to believe. Could you please explain in simple understandable terms for those that are not theologically educated, what it means...I have believe on the Son of God... and what it all entails. Thank you for your time in doing this for us.

It doesn't take theological education to decipher what "belief" is. I will say that many people, such as the so-called "easy-believism" camp, confuse belief in Christ with mere mental assent to facts. Belief is rather trust in Christ's finished work, and continuing mediation on the behalf of his people. Belief (trust) is something that is a result of a regenerated heart. Can I point out for you what exactly belief looks like or an example of belief? Possibly; maybe not. What I do know is that if anyone would be saved, it is through trust in Jesus Christ.

 

[Freedom Now]

It doesn't take theological education to decipher what "belief" is. I will say that many people, such as the so-called "easy-believism" camp, confuse belief in Christ with mere mental assent to facts. Belief is rather trust in Christ's finished work, and continuing mediation on the behalf of his people. Belief (trust) is something that is a result of a regenerated heart. Can I point out for you what exactly belief looks like or an example of belief? Possibly; maybe not. What I do know is that if anyone would be saved, it is through trust in Jesus Christ.

What is the difference between,..mere mental assent to facts... (say the facts of Christ's finished work)

compared to ...trust in Christ's finished work.....?


One that is merely giving mental assent to facts... (say the facts of Christ's finished work), does this one not
also believe in his own mind that he is trusting in Christ's finished work?


So how does one know if he is trusting or just giving mental assent?

 

[shakewell]

If I have believed on the Son of God, then according to Scripture, I do. I rest in that.

"If" you have believed? Are you saying you don't know if you've believed?

 

[EmSw]

I have no idea what you are asking or why.

It's plainly written in the Bible. Jesus told us who comes forth to the resurrection of life. Care to make a guess? Jesus said nothing about those who have faith, about those who trust Him, nor those who are predestined to life.

Here's a hint: look in John 5 to find the answer of truth. Now if you say you trust Jesus, then surely you trust what He says.

 

[samir]

Then I would suggest that you don't have a right to be so against something you don't understand.



There is a difference between fatalism and predestination. Fatalism says that your destiny will happen regardless of what you do. That is not biblical, because what we do does affect what our destiny is. If someone is predestined to hell, it is not regardless of what they do. If they were to believe, they would be saved. But, they won't believe, so they won't be saved. They go to hell not because they were predestined, but because they want it, deserve it, and refused to trust God. Fatalism says that a person predestined to hell will there regardless of whether they believe, repent, confess, etc. That is simply not biblical. It is not that a person predestined to hell cannot do anything about it, it is that they will not.

Sounds like Calvinism is fatalism because those predestined to hell still go to hell regardless of what they do. If everyone predestined to hell will not accept Jesus and everyone predestined to heaven will accept Jesus then I don't see the point of evangelism or discussion because it won't change anyone's fate.

 

[TaylorSexton]

What is the difference between,..mere mental assent to facts... (say the facts of Christ's finished work)

compared to ...trust in Christ's finished work.....?


One that is merely giving mental assent to facts... (say the facts of Christ's finished work), does this one not
also believe in his own mind that he is trusting in Christ's finished work?


So how does one know if he is trusting or just giving mental assent?

James 2 is a good passage to study.


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[TaylorSexton]

It's plainly written in the Bible. Jesus told us who comes forth to the resurrection of life. Care to make a guess? Jesus said nothing about those who have faith, about those who trust Him, nor those who are predestined to life.

Here's a hint: look in John 5 to find the answer of truth. Now if you say you trust Jesus, then surely you trust what He says.

I have no idea what you are babbling about or how it is relevant to this conversation. I will respond when you make that clear.


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[TaylorSexton]

Sounds like Calvinism is fatalism because those predestined to hell still go to hell regardless of what they do. If everyone predestined to hell will not accept Jesus and everyone predestined to heaven will accept Jesus then I don't see the point of evangelism or discussion because it won't change anyone's fate.

This quote shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Reformed theology or biblical theology for that matter. Calvinism (biblical understanding of soteriology) is not fatalism. The fact that you keep insisting on it shows either slowness or unwillingness to understand. I have showed you how divine predestination is different from fatalism. It is simple and makes perfect sense. Fatalism denies that God works through means. People predestined to hell do not go regardless of what they do, they go precisely because of what they do. The former is fatalism, the latter divine predestination.

The quicker you understand, the sooner this conversation will be fruitful. Until then, you are swimming in your own ignorance, all the while faking being knowledgable in an area in which you cannot even define the basic position. Conversations like that typically don't go well.


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[TaylorSexton]

"If" you have believed? Are you saying you don't know if you've believed?

Did I say that?


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[Freedom Now]

James 2 is a good passage to study.


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Yes , I know and the rest of the bible is good to study , too........but

that did not answer the questions I posed to you.

 

[EmSw]

I have no idea what you are babbling about or how it is relevant to this conversation. I will respond when you make that clear.

I didn't the questions were that difficult.

 

[TaylorSexton]

Yes , I know and the rest of the bible is good to study , too........but

that did not answer the questions I posed to you.

What better answer than to point you to Scripture? Why are you getting sarcastic with me?


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[TaylorSexton]

I didn't the questions were that difficult.

I'm sure they aren't if you would just make them clear. Better yet, just tell me the point you are trying to make instead of trying to be clever.


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[EmSw]

This quote shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Reformed theology or biblical theology for that matter. Calvinism (biblical understanding of soteriology) is not fatalism. The fact that you keep insisting on it shows either slowness or unwillingness to understand. I have showed you how divine predestination is different from fatalism. It is simple and makes perfect sense. Fatalism denies that God works through means. People predestined to hell do not go regardless of what they do, they go precisely because of what they do. The former is fatalism, the latter divine predestination.

The quicker you understand, the sooner this conversation will be fruitful. Until then, you are swimming in your own ignorance, all the while faking being knowledgable in an area in which you cannot even define the basic position. Conversations like that typically don't go well.

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. (Westminster Confessions)

This is exactly what fatalism is, and it's a favorite of Calvinists.

 

[TaylorSexton]

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. (Westminster Confessions)

This is exactly what fatalism is, and it's a favorite of Calvinists.

That is not fatalism, it is divine predestination of a God who works through means. I have already demonstrating this, but like frightened ostriches, you simply thrust your head in the sand and scream your opinions over and over again. Now, are you going to have a discussion, or just keep vomiting your willful ignorance? Saying a false statement over and over again doesn't make it true.

I truly hope this is not your normal mode of operation. It is dishonest.


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[TaylorSexton]

Since it is the Lord's Day where I am, I will not respond for the next 24 hours. I suggest you all do the same. Spend time with the Lord in his Word. Perhaps try to gain some understanding in this topic. It will help tremendously in this discussion. Thus far, all it has been has been false understanding and misrepresentation, which is greatly frustrating for me, for it is very hard to actually have fruitful discussion when I have to spend all of my time correcting people who refuse to even try to understand.

Have a blessed Lord's Day.


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[Freedom Now]

What better answer than to point you to Scripture? Why are you getting sarcastic with me?


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Sorry, no sarcasm from my end.

To me it seems you were avoiding answering my questions.

I read your article. ...Resolved....nice I like it, it shows character, but I like you to read point 4 of

your resolve.

If you are not interested in answering certain questions, just say so, I am fine with that...

but to point to me being sarcastic, according to your article ..Resolved, point 4, you are doing

exactly what you resolved not to do.


So if you are interested in a discussion or conversation, then please answer or least say you

have no answer or are not willing to answer.


To only point to a chapter in a book in the bible, and not show forth what you are trying to state,

to me it has the appearance of avoiding the questions.


So please prove me wrong by answering the questions posed to you in post #85


Thank you.


May God bless you.