Do Hebrews 3:6 and/or 3:14 prove the P of TULIP?

[EmSw]

That is not fatalism, it is divine predestination of a God who works through means. I have already demonstrating this, but like frightened ostriches, you simply thrust your head in the sand and scream your opinions over and over again. Now, are you going to have a discussion, or just keep vomiting your willful ignorance? Saying a false statement over and over again doesn't make it true.

I truly hope this is not your normal mode of operation. It is dishonest.

I've heard all this before. You are just like most other Calvinists I've encountered.

Here is the definition of fatalism from thefreedictionary.com -

1. The doctrine that all events are predetermined by fate and are therefore unalterable.
2. Acceptance of the belief that all events are predetermined and inevitable.

If God predestines someone for heaven, can it be altered?
If God foreordains someone for hell, can it be altered?
Are all events predetermined by God and inevitable?

Does calling someone ignorant make you feel good inside?
'Thank you God that I am not like these ignorant people!'

 

[shakewell]

People predestined to hell do not go regardless of what they do, they go precisely because of what they do.

If they were predestined to hell; they didn't do anything to cause them to go there because they weren't even born yet.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If they were predestined to hell; they didn't do anything to cause them to go there because they weren't even born yet.

(preface: I know calvinism and most isms are not Scriptural, proven many times not to be, so I don't agree with any part of them that doesn't agree with all Scripture. Same with ists too, yes - even Anabaptist's thoughts, ways, doctrines or practices that don't agree with all Scripture)

shakewell, remember as God says, that He knew everything about us before He created anything yet. There was no part of the universe in existence
and
God knew perfectly all that would take place on earth, and what everyone would do of their own choice and free will (or even without free will, if that was the case ) - God knew perfectly all the choices a person would make in their lifetime.
That being true, without question nor doubt,
God knew where everyone would choose to end up. He could not "not know" it, or He would not be God.
Everyone chooses. God knows it. God knew it before creation.

Some people say that that is pre-destination.
They call it that. They define it like that or some such way.

 

[shakewell]

(preface: I know calvinism and most isms are not Scriptural, proven many times not to be, so I don't agree with any part of them that doesn't agree with all Scripture. Same with ists too, yes - even Anabaptist's thoughts, ways, doctrines or practices that don't agree with all Scripture)

shakewell, remember as God says, that He knew everything about us before He created anything yet. There was no part of the universe in existence
and
God knew perfectly all that would take place on earth, and what everyone would do of their own choice and free will (or even without free will, if that was the case ) - God knew perfectly all the choices a person would make in their lifetime.
That being true, without question nor doubt,
God knew where everyone would choose to end up. He could not "not know" it, or He would not be God.
Everyone chooses. God knows it. God knew it before creation.

Some people say that that is pre-destination.
They call it that. They define it like that or some such way.

I was responding to a guy is trying to say that calvinism isn't fatalism, which of course it is.
What you're describing is foresight/prescience, which I have no problem with.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I was responding to a guy is trying to say that calvinism isn't fatalism, which of course it is.
What you're describing is foresight/prescience, which I have no problem with.

COOL! Thank you for clarifying.
(I haven't heard God's omniscience reduced to foresight or prescience before, so that's not what I was describing, no, although they may be appropriate descriptions, God Willing....) (I don't remember hearing of prescience ever).

 

[samir]

This quote shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Reformed theology or biblical theology for that matter. Calvinism (biblical understanding of soteriology) is not fatalism. The fact that you keep insisting on it shows either slowness or unwillingness to understand. I have showed you how divine predestination is different from fatalism. It is simple and makes perfect sense. Fatalism denies that God works through means. People predestined to hell do not go regardless of what they do, they go precisely because of what they do. The former is fatalism, the latter divine predestination.

The quicker you understand, the sooner this conversation will be fruitful. Until then, you are swimming in your own ignorance, all the while faking being knowledgable in an area in which you cannot even define the basic position. Conversations like that typically don't go well.


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How can a person predestined to hell get to heaven? Based on what you wrote, it's impossible because even though they could believe and repent they never will.

 

[shakewell]

COOL! Thank you for clarifying.
(I haven't heard God's omniscience reduced to foresight or prescience before, so that's not what I was describing, no, although they may be appropriate descriptions, God Willing....) (I don't remember hearing of prescience ever).

I think prescience could be thought of as a subcategory of omniscience; omni meaning all, and pre meaning ahead of time.