Do Christian Believers Sin?

[Gideons300]

I believe that God, through the Holy Spirit will many times bring to our hearts and minds that if we were to do something than that would be a sin. It is at that point where each person has a choice. To heed the Holy Spirit or to not.

Exactly. And how has that gone for us all?

It leaves us still in Romans 7, where we want to do good, but alas, we do evil instead. Now, is there deliverance from such a state, according to Paul? Is it possible to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh? In Romans 7, we find a man who had the will to stop sinning and to obey always, but he lacked the power to do so. But we are told that God can cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure.

Does the thought of that appeal to us, or do we feel anxiety over losing our free will to a God who would do such a thing? How exactly can we reckon ourselves dead unto sin if we believe inside that our disobedience is inevitable anyway? Are we not told to hunger and thirst for righteousness, for purity of heart? Did Christ not tell us that if we still are sinning, we are not free at all, but still slaves to sin. Did He not tell us that if we continued in His words, He would make us FREE INDEED?

Indeed He did. Only believe. Our God can do for us IN us, what we ourselves have failed to do, even after decades of following Him. Yes, He is THAT good.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[fatherjimparker]

I completely agree with you.

Ask them how many types of sin there are? They talk about conscious sin and unconscious sin, like there is a difference.

We know from the Word that God is holy. Holy is without sin and that to do something against or not within the righteousness of God is sin, but you'll get a lot of runaround, around here. The Word simply defines sin, but to those who 'do not sin' per se, they must figure something out to keep them from sin, which I guess re-defines the word 'sin' from the way God defined it.

smh.

Pre-communion prayer of St. John Chrysostom, c. 349 – 407, Archbishop of Constantinople:

I believe, O Lord, and I confess that thou art truly the Christ, the Son of God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly thine own immaculate body and that this is thine own precious blood. Wherefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance; and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins and unto life everlasting. Amen

 

[fatherjimparker]

Agree absolutely. Now, when we grab hold of Galatians 2:20 and believe it, where we really are new creatures, Christ IN us causing, us leading, us, changing us, keeping us, we can look back on what we could never do and see what Christ IN US can do when we fully surrender and fully believe.

If what you say is true, that walking as living sacrifices is truly impossible, that the traitor who is our old man can hound us and hold us back until Jesus comes, that we will never be able to stare a bound addict in the face and tell him that Jesus can set him free indeed, then Jesus has lied to us, or he Himself is delusional for telling us He can and will keep us from falling.

I can fully understand if anyone does not yet see how our true overcoming of the world, the flesh and the devil is possible, I can certainly accept that. After all, what preacher is sharing this truth? What one is walking in it? Our own efforts at trying to defeat sin have given us all a strong does of reality of the weakness of our flesh. But what I cannot seem to understand is the lack of desire for victory over sin and self rule. Why are we not on our knees, pleasing with God to keep us from evil, as He Himself taught us to pray.

Now, the real question is, when we do pray "Deliver us from evil" ..... do we believe He will?

Blessings,

Gids

Before Paul wrote Gal 2:20 he wrote Gal 2:17 "But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we ourselves were found to be sinners, is Christ then an agent of sin? Certainly not!"

From long before the cross, God has always forgiven the repentant sinner. Look at what a rascal David was!

That is why James told us to "confess your sins to one another". (5:16)

That is why John told us, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." ( 1Jo 1:9)

If believers didn't sin, they wouldn't need to confess.

Anyone who thinks he is without sin is deluded. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."( 1Jo 1:8) And if the truth is not in us then Christ is not in us because He is the Truth. (OK that's a stretch. I guess a person could be a deluded believer.)

 

[ToBeLoved]

Exactly. And how has that gone for us all?

It leaves us still in Romans 7, where we want to do good, but alas, we do evil instead. Now, is there deliverance from such a state, according to Paul? Is it possible to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh? In Romans 7, we find a man who had the will to stop sinning and to obey always, but he lacked the power to do so. But we are told that God can cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure.

Does the thought of that appeal to us, or do we feel anxiety over losing our free will to a God who would do such a thing? How exactly can we reckon ourselves dead unto sin if we believe inside that our disobedience is inevitable anyway? Are we not told to hunger and thirst for righteousness, for purity of heart? Did Christ not tell us that if we still are sinning, we are not free at all, but still slaves to sin. Did He not tell us that if we continued in His words, He would make us FREE INDEED?

Indeed He did. Only believe. Our God can do for us IN us, what we ourselves have failed to do, even after decades of following Him. Yes, He is THAT good.

Blessings,

Gideon

That is all good, but the question asked by the OP is Do believer's sin? Which is yes.

To say otherwise is to set up baby Christians and young believers to expect something of themselves that only after much time with the Holy Spirit we work towards.

 

[Gideons300]

That is all good, but the question asked by the OP is Do believer's sin? Which is yes.

To say otherwise is to set up baby Christians and young believers to expect something of themselves that only after much time with the Holy Spirit we work towards.

If the question is "CAN a Christian believer sin?", I would wholeheartedly agree. But let's note that John said IF we sin, not WHEN.

The real question we need to ask ourselves is "Can a Christian believer NOT sin?" And by that I mean to say "Can he be kept from sinning by the power of the indwelling Spirit?". If we say no, then it is literally impossible to ever walk in the Spirit, for the promise is that if we do so, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Please bear in mind that I do not equate being kept from sin with sinless perfection, or with us laden down with perfectly formed fruits of the Spirit by our diligence and superhuman effort. Far from it. I am talking about the ability to obey our God when He clearly tells us what His will for us is. I am talking full surrender, which we do not "work at". In truth, without that, our progress is hindered because we are not fully on the wheel of the master potter, and thus, the change we are promised simply cannot begin.

But to the one who is, and in his weakness, he does the only thing he can do.... believe that God in him can do what he cannot...deliver him from evil, just as Jesus taught us to pray, that man will not be disappointed. And praise God, when that happens, angels rejoice that a child of God fought through all his doubts and unbelief and continued holding onto the promises of God...and God that singleness of heart with the faith to apprehend that for which we were all apprehended...to walk as overcomers in THIS life.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[ToBeLoved]

The real question we need to ask ourselves is "Can a Christian believer NOT sin?" And by that I mean to say "Can he be kept from sinning by the power of the indwelling Spirit?". If we say no, then it is literally impossible to ever walk in the Spirit, for the promise is that if we do so, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Please bear in mind that I do not equate being kept from sin with sinless perfection, or with us laden down with perfectly formed fruits of the Spirit by our diligence and superhuman effort. Far from it. I am talking about the ability to obey our God when He clearly tells us what His will for us is. I am talking full surrender, which we do not "work at". In truth, without that, our progress is hindered because we are not fully on the wheel of the master potter, and thus, the change we are promised simply cannot begin.

But to the one who is, and in his weakness, he does the only thing he can do.... believe that God in him can do what he cannot...deliver him from evil, just as Jesus taught us to pray, that man will not be disappointed. And praise God, when that happens, angels rejoice that a child of God fought through all his doubts and unbelief and continued holding onto the promises of God...and God that singleness of heart with the faith to apprehend that for which we were all apprehended...to walk as overcomers in THIS life.

Blessings,

Gideon

Actually Paul already covered this when he said

Romans 6:1-2
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be!"

If we read our bibles, we know that we are not to continue in sin. Notice: 'continue' in sin as in to keep doing the same thing over and over.

Not, 'continue to sin'.

So Paul is making a very different point as 'continuing in sin, being the same type of sin. And that we should not do so just because God has promised that He will always forgive us if we repent.

That is also talking about sin that we are able to overcome and to which we could stop.

 

[Johnlove1]

A Child of God does not sin.



(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s”



Does a believer in Jesus sin? Not if one is in Jesus. If one is in Jesus he or she will live/walk as Jesus walked.


There is a difference of believing of Jesus then believing of Jesus while being in Jesus.



(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


Someone who just accepts Jesus as his or her God will still sin, but then he or she is just an infant of Christ.



(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?”


If one who believes him or herself to be a child of God’s and still deliberately commits a sin, then they truly are not a child of God’s.


A Child of God’s has been given the knowledge of the truth, and will never deliberately disobey Jesus Christ our Lord and God.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[RDKirk]

It's the already, but not yet of Paul. We have been raised up already into His kingdom, Col 1:13, we have been delivered out of this present evil age already Gal 1:4.

So when one sees flesh, one is seeing the old creation order, the past. We are in 2 places at the same time.

Paul said in Rom 7:17, and 7:20, it was NOT HIM who sinned, so he clearly knew it was the old, and he was not the old, but the new creation of 2 Cor 5:17.

Paul gets into some things here that some will argue are very, very close to pagan philosophies, but we have to remember, "Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then."

We are born with "live" flesh bodies and comatose spirit "bodies." Our flesh bodies scream for attention and physical satisfaction from the moment we are born, and our minds learn to respond immediately to the flesh. When our spirits are brought alive in Christ through the Holy Spirit, they are like a person who has been in a coma: Weak, spindly, needing much therapy, and no match to the flesh in demanding our attention. We are so accustomed to responding to our loud, strong flesh that it's hard to hear the groaning of our spirits.

But my flesh is not "me" in the way that Paul speaks of it. He speaks of our minds as being "us"--the part that makes my moral choices is "me." My body is the tent that I reside in.

 

[ToBeLoved]

A Child of God does not sin.



(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s”

Does a believer in Jesus sin? Not if one is in Jesus. If one is in Jesus he or she will live/walk as Jesus walked.

There is a difference of believing of Jesus then believing of Jesus while being in Jesus.

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


Someone who just accepts Jesus as his or her God will still sin, but then he or she is just an infant of Christ.

(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?”


If one who believes him or herself to be a child of God’s and still deliberately commits a sin, then they truly are not a child of God’s.


A Child of God’s has been given the knowledge of the truth, and will never deliberately disobey Jesus Christ our Lord and God.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

This seems to be an issue between believers. The can we sin as new creations in Christ. I believe that scripture shows we can. Many of the verses that you have listed above have the word "deliberately" in them. Some verses do not, but many do and one of the biggest points in the Bible is to keep God's children away from sin.

Since scripture interprets scripture, I believe that there is enough evidence showing that we do sin and can sin.

Is it your belief that a saved Christian cannot sin at all?

 

[Johnlove1]

This seems to be an issue between believers. The can we sin as new creations in Christ. I believe that scripture shows we can. Many of the verses that you have listed above have the word "deliberately" in them. Some verses do not, but many do and one of the biggest points in the Bible is to keep God's children away from sin.

Since scripture interprets scripture, I believe that there is enough evidence showing that we do sin and can sin.

Is it your belief that a saved Christian cannot sin at all?

It is a deliberate sin that lead to death.


One who is being led by the Holy Spirit will not commit a deliberate sin.


Yet there is a healing, and teaching that needs to be done to those who still commit sins that are not deliberate.


How long it takes for the Holy Spirit to heal, teach one to overcome those actions that are wrongdoings, depends on each individual.


But a fully mature/spiritual person will not sin at all ever.


John tells us that, and I know personally that he is right.


A Child of God can’t sin.



John says a Child of God’s can’t sin, and that is because one who is a Child of God’s has given his or her will to God.


God’s will is a Christian’s will forever. If one’s will is God’s, it means he or she will always obey our Father in Heaven as Jesus did.


A Christian who is in Jesus lives as Jesus lived.



A Christian who has the indwelling of God, will always do as God has him or her do.


Jesus said he and the Father in Heaven would make a home in those who live his Commandments.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


There is no sin in God’s home. God’s home is the kingdom of God.


Most people just do not understand the power of God who has made a home in a Spiritual Christian.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is a deliberate sin that lead to death.


One who is being led by the Holy Spirit will not commit a deliberate sin.


Yet there is a healing, and teaching that needs to be done to those who still commit sins that are not deliberate.


How long it takes for the Holy Spirit to heal, teach one to overcome those actions that are wrongdoings, depends on each individual.


But a fully mature/spiritual person will not sin at all ever.


John tells us that, and I know personally that he is right.


A Child of God can’t sin.



John says a Child of God’s can’t sin, and that is because one who is a Child of God’s has given his or her will to God.


God’s will is a Christian’s will forever. If one’s will is God’s, it means he or she will always obey our Father in Heaven as Jesus did.


A Christian who is in Jesus lives as Jesus lived.



A Christian who has the indwelling of God, will always do as God has him or her do.


Jesus said he and the Father in Heaven would make a home in those who live his Commandments.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


There is no sin in God’s home. God’s home is the kingdom of God.


Most people just do not understand the power of God who has made a home in a Spiritual Christian.

I disagree with you.

There are millions of saved Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit that love and follow God to the best of their ability.

As the Apostle Paul has said, it is with our minds that we are following God, but the flesh is weak and we still have our inherent sin natures to deal with.

Romans 7: 14-23
"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

 

[ToBeLoved]

Exactly. And how has that gone for us all?

It leaves us still in Romans 7, where we want to do good, but alas, we do evil instead. Now, is there deliverance from such a state, according to Paul? Is it possible to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh? In Romans 7, we find a man who had the will to stop sinning and to obey always, but he lacked the power to do so. But we are told that God can cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure.

Does the thought of that appeal to us, or do we feel anxiety over losing our free will to a God who would do such a thing? How exactly can we reckon ourselves dead unto sin if we believe inside that our disobedience is inevitable anyway? Are we not told to hunger and thirst for righteousness, for purity of heart? Did Christ not tell us that if we still are sinning, we are not free at all, but still slaves to sin. Did He not tell us that if we continued in His words, He would make us FREE INDEED?

Indeed He did. Only believe. Our God can do for us IN us, what we ourselves have failed to do, even after decades of following Him. Yes, He is THAT good.

Blessings,

Gideon

Let's be real. Many Christians do not follow the Word of God. We all know that.

Whether it has gone well for Christianity or not, is your opinion. Your stating how God's children are in such shambles does not bode well for your believing that God has a PERFECT plan. That His will will be done and that He is in control. God told us in the last days, many's heart would grow cold, they would not seek sound doctrine, so what are you so surprised about or are so worried about?

God has given us His commandments which do not change based on what your views are and whether His commands appear to be working. Man is always trying to figure God out. It's never worked.

You can change the subject into how effectively God's children follow His Word, but that is changing the subject. God's Word stands strong no matter if you believe it is successful or not. Maybe increased prayer that the Holy Spirit changes hearts is the answer to this condundrum. Complaining about it over and over speaks doubt to me. Doubt that God is not in control.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The real question we need to ask ourselves is

Why is it so hard to stay on topic? A thread has a topic for a reason. To talk about the topic and to discuss it.

There should not be other questions or topics rerouted in each of your answers, that is derailing the thread. You can start another thread if it is not possible to stay on topic.

 

[Johnlove1]

I disagree with you.

There are millions of saved Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit that love and follow God to the best of their ability.

As the Apostle Paul has said, it is with our minds that we are following God, but the flesh is weak and we still have our inherent sin natures to deal with.

Romans 7: 14-23
"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

Your argument is not with me. You seem to be disagreeing with Apostle John, Jesus, and whoever wrote Hebrews, be it Paul or some other person. Either way the Holy Spirit had it placed in the written Word of God.



You are also disagreeing with what Jesus said.


(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Jesus told us only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven will go to Heaven with him.


The will of the Father in Heaven is to listen to Jesus.


So again you are not disagreeing with me, but scripture.



(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. -----------“

 

[ToBeLoved]

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Jesus told us only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven will go to Heaven with him.

The Father is holy, so anything that is not sin would be considered the Father's will.

In Matthew 7:21, Jesus is not talking about people who have been saved and are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

He is most certainly not talking about saved people who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit but sin.

Just because someone sins, that does not mean that they are not doing the will of God.

If we sin, God is JUST and FAITHFUL to forgive us our sins.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is a deliberate sin that lead to death.


One who is being led by the Holy Spirit will not commit a deliberate sin.


Yet there is a healing, and teaching that needs to be done to those who still commit sins that are not deliberate.


How long it takes for the Holy Spirit to heal, teach one to overcome those actions that are wrongdoings, depends on each individual.


But a fully mature/spiritual person will not sin at all ever.


John tells us that, and I know personally that he is right.


A Child of God can’t sin.



John says a Child of God’s can’t sin, and that is because one who is a Child of God’s has given his or her will to God.


God’s will is a Christian’s will forever. If one’s will is God’s, it means he or she will always obey our Father in Heaven as Jesus did.


A Christian who is in Jesus lives as Jesus lived.



A Christian who has the indwelling of God, will always do as God has him or her do.


Jesus said he and the Father in Heaven would make a home in those who live his Commandments.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


There is no sin in God’s home. God’s home is the kingdom of God.


Most people just do not understand the power of God who has made a home in a Spiritual Christian.

A child of God is not worried about the penalty of sin, because Jesus won the battle over sin.

Why are you still afraid that sin will send you to hell? Did Jesus not win the battle over sin? Did Jesus not promise to forgive our sins when we ask Him?

 

[Johnlove1]

The Father is holy, so anything that is not sin would be considered the Father's will.

In Matthew 7:21, Jesus is not talking about people who have been saved and are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

He is most certainly not talking about saved people who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit but sin.

Just because someone sins, that does not mean that they are not doing the will of God.

If we sin, God is JUST and FAITHFUL to forgive us our sins.

Who told you who it was Jesus was speaking to?


The people who cast out demons in Jesus name must have been given the Holy Spirit.


Scripture give us an example of what happen to those who try to cast out demons in Jesus name, and were not given the Holy Spirit. It was not very nice for those people.


Also show me scripture that it is an indwelling of the Holy Spirit when one receives the Holy Spirit.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


Jesus told us when it is that God makes an indwelling of a person. God does not share the same house as the devil. One who sins is of the devil.


(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since thedevilhas been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.


So you see your argument is not with me, but the written Word of God.


I have not changed anything in the bible.

 

[Johnlove1]

A child of God is not worried about the penalty of sin, because Jesus won the battle over sin.

Why are you still afraid that sin will send you to hell? Did Jesus not win the battle over sin? Did Jesus not promise to forgive our sins when we ask Him?

Who told you who it was Jesus was speaking to?


The people who cast out demons in Jesus name must have been given the Holy Spirit.


Scripture give us an example of what happen to those who try to cast out demons in Jesus name, and were not given the Holy Spirit. It was not very nice for those people.


Also show me scripture that it is an indwelling of the Holy Spirit when one receives the Holy Spirit.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


Jesus told us when it is that God makes an indwelling of a person. God does not share the same house as the devil. One who sins is of the devil.


(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since thedevilhas been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.


So you see your argument is not with me, but the written Word of God.


I have not changed anything in the bible.


Again you have ignored Hebrews. Also Paul says a sinner will never enter the kingdom of God.

Paul did not say anyone other than those who are saved.


Also saved does not mean one will enter the kingdom of God, and you have no scripture that tell us it does.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”


Notice Paul say people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Who told you who it was Jesus was speaking to?

Because the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is our guarantee of our salvation and is part of our inheritance in Christ. We receive our full inheritance in Christ after we leave this world.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory

Romans 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

So that verse is not talking about people saved by the blood of Jesus with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The people who cast out demons in Jesus name must have been given the Holy Spirit.

Scripture give us an example of what happen to those who try to cast out demons in Jesus name, and were not given the Holy Spirit. It was not very nice for those people.

That is who the verse is talking about, because if they had the indwelling Holy Spirit, that would be part of their inheritance in Christ.