Did the early church worship on Sabbath?

prodromos

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Well Sunday worship has an origin, but it may not be one you like..

"Sun worship characterized many of the early religions. In the Old World it was important in ancient cultures, such as those of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, North India, Greece, Rome....
Connected with sun worship, the observance of the first day of the week, the sun-day, played an important role in the pagan world. The North British Review called Sunday "The wild solar holiday of all times," and Constantine, in his famous Sunday edict, styled it "the venerable day of the sun."

Babylonians
Bel, the sun-god, whose proper name was Marduk, was the patrol god of the Babylonians. To him they dedicated the first day of the week. Their calendar was adjusted in such a way that the first day of every month was also the first day of the week.

"It is clear that the first day of every month was originally a day of rest and fasting."--Langdon, Babylonian Menlogies and Semitic Calendars, p. 86.

Egyptians
In ancient Egypt the sun-cult originated at Heliopolis. The early sun-god of the ancient Egyptians was Re, and later Osiris, who came to be also the god of the dead and of the resurrection.

"Sunday (day of the sun) as the name of the first day of the week is derived from Egyptian astrology." --Catholic Encyclopedia, Art. Sunday.


Medo-Persian
"Each day in the week, the planet to which the day was sacred was invoked in a fixed spot in the crypt; and Sunday, over which the sun presided, was especially holy." --Cumont, The Mysteries of Mithra, p. 167.

Indians
Among the Hindus, every Sunday was a holy day. One author writes:

"The different days enjoy degrees of veneration according to certain qualities which [the Hindus] attribute to [the days of the week]. They distinguish, for example, the Sunday, because it is the day of the sun and the beginning of the week." --Albiruni's India, II, p. 185.

Koreans
"Buddha is reported to have been of solar descent, as were the Incas of Peru and are the present royal house of Japan (whose ancestress is stated to have been the sun-goddess Amaterasu)." --E. Royston Pike, Encyclopecia of Religion, Art. Sun Worship.

Germans
"The most ancient Germans being pagans, and having appropriated their first day of the week to the peculiar adoration to the sun, whereof, that day doth yet in our English tongue retain the name of Sunday." --Verstegan, Antiquities, p. 10.

Greeks
"At Sparta on the first day of every month the king made a sacrificial offering to Apollon [or Appollo], the sun-god, and the same practice was carried on at Athens." --Cook, Zeus, II, p. 237.

Romans
"The first day of the week was the Mithraic Sunday before it was the Christian, and December 25 was Mithra's birthday." --E. Royston Pike, Encyclopedia of Religion, Art. Mithraism.

Mithraism and Christianism
The popular worship of Mithra [the "Invincible Sun-god"] became so pre-eminent in the Roman Empire in the days of Constantine, that he decreed "The Venerable Day of the Sun" to be the weekly rest day of the Empire.

One authority points out the influence of Mithraism on Christianity, saying:

"It [Mithraism] had so much acceptance that it was able to impose on the Christian world its own Sun-day in place of the Sabbath, its Sun's birthday, 25th December, as the birthday of Jesus." --G. Murray, Christianity in the Light of Modern Knowledge, pp. 73, 74......


History shows the origin...
None of the above can be linked to Christian worship on Sunday, which is historically tied to the resurrection of our God and Saviour on the eighth day, plus the claims made above regarding Mithraism have no historical support so whatever your source is has no credibility.
 
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reddogs

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None of the above can be linked to Christian worship on Sunday, which is historically tied to the resurrection of our God and Saviour on the eighth day, plus the claims made above regarding Mithraism have no historical support so whatever your source is has no credibility.
Here is something interesting they admit even on the idea of this 'eight day'....
"In the earliest days of the Church, many Jewish Christians continued to observe Sabbath regulations and worship on the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42-44; 18:1-4). However, they also met for the celebration of the Holy Eucharist on the first day of the week – the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10), or Sunday (Acts 20:7; 1Co 16:1-2).https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/sabbath-sunday-eighth-day/

Now you can see how Easter was used to bring the pagans in and the Christians were told it was just a 'eight day'...scripture tells us of the doctrines of devils..
 
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prodromos

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Here is something interesting they admit even on the idea of this 'eight day'....
"In the earliest days of the Church, many Jewish Christians continued to observe Sabbath regulations and worship on the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42-44; 18:1-4). However, they also met for the celebration of the Holy Eucharist on the first day of the week – the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10), or Sunday (Acts 20:7; 1Co 16:1-2).https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/sabbath-sunday-eighth-day/
You seem surprised that we recognise that Jews did not suddenly stop being Jews when they became Christian.
Now you can see how Easter was used to bring the pagans in and the Christians were told it was just a 'eight day'...scripture tells us of the doctrines of devils..
How 'christian' of you to imply the doctrine of Christ's death and resurrection is a doctrine of devils. It's the core of the Gospel along with God becoming man, so of course it was taught to convert Jews and pagans alike.
 
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JSRG

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Well Sunday worship has an origin, but it may not be one you like..

Given how your previous lists of copied and pasted quotes in this topic turned out (see here and here, where I showed that virtually everything in them was misrepresented or irrelevant), it's not clear to me why we should be trusting this new one.

Still, let's take a look at it.

"Sun worship characterized many of the early religions. In the Old World it was important in ancient cultures, such as those of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, North India, Greece, Rome....
Connected with sun worship, the observance of the first day of the week, the sun-day, played an important role in the pagan world. The North British Review called Sunday "The wild solar holiday of all times," and Constantine, in his famous Sunday edict, styled it "the venerable day of the sun."

Babylonians
Bel, the sun-god, whose proper name was Marduk, was the patrol god of the Babylonians. To him they dedicated the first day of the week. Their calendar was adjusted in such a way that the first day of every month was also the first day of the week.

"It is clear that the first day of every month was originally a day of rest and fasting."--Langdon, Babylonian Menlogies and Semitic Calendars, p. 86.

We run into immediate problems with this. First, you declare that the first day of the week was dedicated to Bel/Marduk and the calendar was adjusted so the first day of every month was also the first day of the week. Yet you decline to offer any evidence that the first day of the month was also the first day of the week. The quote you offer says nothing about it. I don't think the book being cited says it either; certainly, the page being cited doesn't. Your already tenuous claim this has anything to do with Sunday worship in Christianity collapses completely without the first day of the month also being the first day of the week, yet you offer no evidence for it.

Second, your quote isn't the full sentence. The full sentence reads: "It is clear that the first day of the month was originally a day of rest and fasting: so were days 7, 9, 14, 19, 21, 28, 29, 30." So even if we suppose that the first day of the month was always the first day of the week (which again you cited no evidence for), it's only one of nine days of the month to do have the rest/fasting, and more than any others are the sixth day of the week. So even if this claim of yours is true... this would actually be evidence in favor of Jews taking the idea of the sixth day being holy and important from the Babylonians! Your source even suggests this Babylonian practice may have been the origin of the Jewish Sabbath. Are you making that claim?

Egyptians
In ancient Egypt the sun-cult originated at Heliopolis. The early sun-god of the ancient Egyptians was Re, and later Osiris, who came to be also the god of the dead and of the resurrection.

"Sunday (day of the sun) as the name of the first day of the week is derived from Egyptian astrology." --Catholic Encyclopedia, Art. Sunday.

There's an interesting sleight of hand here; it says the name Sunday came from Egyptian astrology, then tries to associate that with Ra, even though... no evidence is actually given that Sunday was of particular importance to the Egyptians, or even that Ra worship had any association with Sunday.

Medo-Persian
"Each day in the week, the planet to which the day was sacred was invoked in a fixed spot in the crypt; and Sunday, over which the sun presided, was especially holy." --Cumont, The Mysteries of Mithra, p. 167.

The "Medo-Persian" is wrong. See, Franz Cumont was a writer about Mithraism, and was very influential. Unfortunately, various claims he made that were speculations were taken as fact, and it was a while before people started to be more critical of some of his ideas (unfortunately, some continue to repeat uncritically his ideas). So he's an out of date source.

Now, there were two Mithras. One was the earlier Persian one, and the other was the later Roman one. Cumont was a strong believer that they were basically the same deity, so he would take things from the Roman Mithra and suppose it was true about the Persian Mithra, without any real warrant. This idea has been largely abandoned, viewing the two as rather distinct deities, without much transferring over from one to the other (as I saw someone amusingly say, the two Mithras were different enough that one would be tempted to conclude he had a mid-life crisis). Thus, his claim that Sunday was important to Mithraism doesn't back-date it to the Persian Mithra.

Another claim Cumont made, which is maddeningly repeated uncritically, is that December 25 was the birthday of Mithra. However, this was really just a speculation on Cumont's part, as this page explains fairly well. And I can't help but notice that when people claim Mithraism considered Sunday to be particularly holy, it seems to always be people who make the incorrect December 25 claim alongside it! The Sunday claim was made by Cumont doesn't offer any citation for the Sunday claim--at least, not in the English version of the book--and no one else seems to. So, I'd like to ask for a primary source that Sunday was in fact particularly sacred in Mithraism (preferably a source that predates Christian Sunday worship, or else it could have gone the other way), not merely Cumont and people just parroting Cumont's ideas. Granted, that wouldn't necessarily prove a connection, but it'd be a required first step. So let's see the primary source.

Indians
Among the Hindus, every Sunday was a holy day. One author writes:

"The different days enjoy degrees of veneration according to certain qualities which [the Hindus] attribute to [the days of the week]. They distinguish, for example, the Sunday, because it is the day of the sun and the beginning of the week." --Albiruni's India, II, p. 185.

The actual name of the work is Alberuni's India. Ordinarily this would be a minor note, but the fact you didn't correct the error the place you copied and pasted all of this from is just evidence you didn't bother to verify it.

Also, the actual text differs slightly from what is offered by the quote. It says "The single days enjoy different degrees of veneration according to certain qualities which they attribute to them. They distinguish, e.g., the Sunday, because it is the day of the sun and the beginning of the week, as the Friday is distinguished in Islam." Admittedly, there is little difference in meaning, and unlike other cases in this list where I showed that the quotes were apparently edited to conceal information--but it's still an error.

Anyway, this quote doesn't say Sunday was a "holy day", or at least any holier than any other day. It just says they have different qualities attributed, and it says as an example that Sunday is distinguished by being the day of the sun and the beginning of the week. It says nothing about it getting higher reverence at all.

Koreans
"Buddha is reported to have been of solar descent, as were the Incas of Peru and are the present royal house of Japan (whose ancestress is stated to have been the sun-goddess Amaterasu)." --E. Royston Pike, Encyclopecia of Religion, Art. Sun Worship.

Notice how desperate this claim it; it says nothing of Sunday, merely that Buddha is "reported" to have been of solar descent, which even if true doesn't prove anything. Also, Buddhism was so far separated geographically and linguistically from the early church that it's fairly silly to try to draw connections between them.

An oddity is that it says "Koreans". Buddhism didn't originate from Korea (it came from India, but I guess the person who came up with these quotes had already used that one), and as far as I can tell it only made its way there in the later fourth century AD. This indicates ignorance on the part of the person who came up with these quotes. Perhaps the source explicitly said it was talking specifically about Korean Buddhist beliefs (I was unable to check the source for context), but if that's the case then the lateness means this already irrelevant quote somehow manages to become even more irrelevant because of the date it was introduced.

Germans
"The most ancient Germans being pagans, and having appropriated their first day of the week to the peculiar adoration to the sun, whereof, that day doth yet in our English tongue retain the name of Sunday." --Verstegan, Antiquities, p. 10.

A work from the the 17th century that makes a vague, brief, uncited claim that they had "peculiar adoration to the sun" on Sunday is not exactly what one would call particularly strong evidence that they actually viewed Sunday as particularly important in a religious sense.

Greeks
"At Sparta on the first day of every month the king made a sacrificial offering to Apollon [or Appollo], the sun-god, and the same practice was carried on at Athens." --Cook, Zeus, II, p. 237.

First day of every month ≠ first day of the week. Also, your quote deceitfully edits what the work actually says: "At Sparta on the first and seventh days of every month the kings sacrificed to Apollon... At Athens the first and seventh days of every month were sacred to Apollon." (the ellipsis just cuts out some in-line citations) Aside from the paraphrasing regarding Athens, one finds it rather interesting that your quote chooses to ignore the fact the seventh day of the month was also important in this.

Romans
"The first day of the week was the Mithraic Sunday before it was the Christian, and December 25 was Mithra's birthday." --E. Royston Pike, Encyclopedia of Religion, Art. Mithraism.

As discussed earlier, the idea that Mithra's birthday was December 25 was a speculation that Franz Cumont had, but which is not attested anywhere--or, at least, no one has ever been able to point to any attestation of it. While the source relying on Cumont is a bit understandable given that for a while he was the main person who actually wrote about Mithra so people had to take information from him, it shows it's out of date, and it repeating a speculation as fact means there's not much reason to take its other claims as accurate either. So, again: Can you offer a primary source for Mithraists finding Sunday to be particularly holy?

Mithraism and Christianism
The popular worship of Mithra [the "Invincible Sun-god"] became so pre-eminent in the Roman Empire in the days of Constantine, that he decreed "The Venerable Day of the Sun" to be the weekly rest day of the Empire.

One authority points out the influence of Mithraism on Christianity, saying:

"It [Mithraism] had so much acceptance that it was able to impose on the Christian world its own Sun-day in place of the Sabbath, its Sun's birthday, 25th December, as the birthday of Jesus." --G. Murray, Christianity in the Light of Modern Knowledge, pp. 73, 74......

This has the same problem as the above, but is even worse. You see, the above quote cuts off mid-sentence:

"It had so much acceptance that it was able to impose on the Christian world its own Sun-Day in place of the Sabbath, its Sun's birthday, 25th December, as the birthday of Jesus; its Magi and its Shepherd hailing the divine star, and various of its Easter celebrations."

We've already discussed how the issues with the December 25 and Sunday claims. The claim of Easter celebrations is too vague to assess, but seems dubious. And the "Magi and its Shepherd hailing the divine star" is wrong too. But since you apparently trust the source so much, are you going to adopt the idea that the Magi and Shepherds in the Bible are just taken from Mithraism?

History shows the origin...
Well, it shows people should be cautious trusting a bunch of unverified quotes that are just copied and pasted.
 
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Given how your previous lists of copied and pasted quotes in this topic turned out (see here and here, where I showed that virtually everything in them was misrepresented or irrelevant), it's not clear to me why we should be trusting this new one.

Still, let's take a look at it.



We run into immediate problems with this. First, you declare that the first day of the week was dedicated to Bel/Marduk and the calendar was adjusted so the first day of every month was also the first day of the week. Yet you decline to offer any evidence that the first day of the month was also the first day of the week. The quote you offer says nothing about it. I don't think the book being cited says it either; certainly, the page being cited doesn't. Your already tenuous claim this has anything to do with Sunday worship in Christianity collapses completely without the first day of the month also being the first day of the week, yet you offer no evidence for it.

Second, your quote isn't the full sentence. The full sentence reads: "It is clear that the first day of the month was originally a day of rest and fasting: so were days 7, 9, 14, 19, 21, 28, 29, 30." So even if we suppose that the first day of the month was always the first day of the week (which again you cited no evidence for), it's only one of nine days of the month to do have the rest/fasting, and more than any others are the sixth day of the week. So even if this claim of yours is true... this would actually be evidence in favor of Jews taking the idea of the sixth day being holy and important from the Babylonians! Your source even suggests this Babylonian practice may have been the origin of the Jewish Sabbath. Are you making that claim?



There's an interesting sleight of hand here; it says the name Sunday came from Egyptian astrology, then tries to associate that with Ra, even though... no evidence is actually given that Sunday was of particular importance to the Egyptians, or even that Ra worship had any association with Sunday.



The "Medo-Persian" is wrong. See, Franz Cumont was a writer about Mithraism, and was very influential. Unfortunately, various claims he made that were speculations were taken as fact, and it was a while before people started to be more critical of some of his ideas (unfortunately, some continue to repeat uncritically his ideas). So he's an out of date source.

Now, there were two Mithras. One was the earlier Persian one, and the other was the later Roman one. Cumont was a strong believer that they were basically the same deity, so he would take things from the Roman Mithra and suppose it was true about the Persian Mithra, without any real warrant. This idea has been largely abandoned, viewing the two as rather distinct deities, without much transferring over from one to the other (as I saw someone amusingly say, the two Mithras were different enough that one would be tempted to conclude he had a mid-life crisis). Thus, his claim that Sunday was important to Mithraism doesn't back-date it to the Persian Mithra.

Another claim Cumont made, which is maddeningly repeated uncritically, is that December 25 was the birthday of Mithra. However, this was really just a speculation on Cumont's part, as this page explains fairly well. And I can't help but notice that when people claim Mithraism considered Sunday to be particularly holy, it seems to always be people who make the incorrect December 25 claim alongside it! The Sunday claim was made by Cumont doesn't offer any citation for the Sunday claim--at least, not in the English version of the book--and no one else seems to. So, I'd like to ask for a primary source that Sunday was in fact particularly sacred in Mithraism (preferably a source that predates Christian Sunday worship, or else it could have gone the other way), not merely Cumont and people just parroting Cumont's ideas. Granted, that wouldn't necessarily prove a connection, but it'd be a required first step. So let's see the primary source.



The actual name of the work is Alberuni's India. Ordinarily this would be a minor note, but the fact you didn't correct the error the place you copied and pasted all of this from is just evidence you didn't bother to verify it.

Also, the actual text differs slightly from what is offered by the quote. It says "The single days enjoy different degrees of veneration according to certain qualities which they attribute to them. They distinguish, e.g., the Sunday, because it is the day of the sun and the beginning of the week, as the Friday is distinguished in Islam." Admittedly, there is little difference in meaning, and unlike other cases in this list where I showed that the quotes were apparently edited to conceal information--but it's still an error.

Anyway, this quote doesn't say Sunday was a "holy day", or at least any holier than any other day. It just says they have different qualities attributed, and it says as an example that Sunday is distinguished by being the day of the sun and the beginning of the week. It says nothing about it getting higher reverence at all.



Notice how desperate this claim it; it says nothing of Sunday, merely that Buddha is "reported" to have been of solar descent, which even if true doesn't prove anything. Also, Buddhism was so far separated geographically and linguistically from the early church that it's fairly silly to try to draw connections between them.

An oddity is that it says "Koreans". Buddhism didn't originate from Korea (it came from India, but I guess the person who came up with these quotes had already used that one), and as far as I can tell it only made its way there in the later fourth century AD. This indicates ignorance on the part of the person who came up with these quotes. Perhaps the source explicitly said it was talking specifically about Korean Buddhist beliefs (I was unable to check the source for context), but if that's the case then the lateness means this already irrelevant quote somehow manages to become even more irrelevant because of the date it was introduced.



A work from the the 17th century that makes a vague, brief, uncited claim that they had "peculiar adoration to the sun" on Sunday is not exactly what one would call particularly strong evidence that they actually viewed Sunday as particularly important in a religious sense.



First day of every month ≠ first day of the week. Also, your quote deceitfully edits what the work actually says: "At Sparta on the first and seventh days of every month the kings sacrificed to Apollon... At Athens the first and seventh days of every month were sacred to Apollon." (the ellipsis just cuts out some in-line citations) Aside from the paraphrasing regarding Athens, one finds it rather interesting that your quote chooses to ignore the fact the seventh day of the month was also important in this.



As discussed earlier, the idea that Mithra's birthday was December 25 was a speculation that Franz Cumont had, but which is not attested anywhere--or, at least, no one has ever been able to point to any attestation of it. While the source relying on Cumont is a bit understandable given that for a while he was the main person who actually wrote about Mithra so people had to take information from him, it shows it's out of date, and it repeating a speculation as fact means there's not much reason to take its other claims as accurate either. So, again: Can you offer a primary source for Mithraists finding Sunday to be particularly holy?



This has the same problem as the above, but is even worse. You see, the above quote cuts off mid-sentence:

"It had so much acceptance that it was able to impose on the Christian world its own Sun-Day in place of the Sabbath, its Sun's birthday, 25th December, as the birthday of Jesus; its Magi and its Shepherd hailing the divine star, and various of its Easter celebrations."

We've already discussed how the issues with the December 25 and Sunday claims. The claim of Easter celebrations is too vague to assess, but seems dubious. And the "Magi and its Shepherd hailing the divine star" is wrong too. But since you apparently trust the source so much, are you going to adopt the idea that the Magi and Shepherds in the Bible are just taken from Mithraism?


Well, it shows people should be cautious trusting a bunch of unverified quotes that are just copied and pasted.
You really slam reddogs for what you claim are lousy sources while you yourself supply no sources. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
 
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prodromos

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You really slam reddogs for what you claim are lousy sources while you yourself supply no sources. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
Others have provided sources, so he has no need to supply the same.
 
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You really slam reddogs for what you claim are lousy sources while you yourself supply no sources. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
It is odd to say I supply "no sources" given that I offered a link to a source on something in my prior message. Now, perhaps your complaint is I didn't offer sources for other claims, but to claim I "supply no sources" in that post is inaccurate. In truth, there wasn't much to offer sources for--I was mostly assessing the validity of the quotes and sources that were provided.

Now, you don't specify what it is you're talking about here. Looking at my message, it looks like there are really only two things I asserted without clear sources. The first is that Franz Cumont believed there was a strong link between Persian Mithra and Roman Mithra, but that this has been largely abandoned. The second is that Buddhism only made it to Korea in the fourth century. Both of these were secondary points (they could be removed and my other points on the applicable quotes I was assessing would remain), so I didn't think it was particularly important to offer much. The first one (about Mithra) I will admit I oversimplified in my explanation, but it is true that he saw there being a strong link between the two Mithras but that idea has been largely rejected. This is a tricky one to directly offer because it's more spread out among a number of different sources, but this link (specifically the "4.1. Cumont's hypothesis: possible origins in Persian Zoroastrianism" section) gives examples of Mithraic scholars asserting that Cumont at a minimum overstated the link of the Persian Mithra on the Roman one--some of the footnotes even give direct links to where you can read the statements to confirm them. As for the second, Buddhism reaching Korea in the fourth century is stated, among other sources, by the Encyclopedia Britannica article on Buddhism, which says "Buddhism was first introduced into the Korean peninsula from China in the 4th century CE, when the country was divided into the three kingdoms of Paekche, Koguryŏ, and Silla."
 
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Gary K

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It is odd to say I supply "no sources" given that I offered a link to a source on something in my prior message. Now, perhaps your complaint is I didn't offer sources for other claims, but to claim I "supply no sources" in that post is inaccurate. In truth, there wasn't much to offer sources for--I was mostly assessing the validity of the quotes and sources that were provided.

Now, you don't specify what it is you're talking about here. Looking at my message, it looks like there are really only two things I asserted without clear sources. The first is that Franz Cumont believed there was a strong link between Persian Mithra and Roman Mithra, but that this has been largely abandoned. The second is that Buddhism only made it to Korea in the fourth century. Both of these were secondary points (they could be removed and my other points on the applicable quotes I was assessing would remain), so I didn't think it was particularly important to offer much. The first one (about Mithra) I will admit I oversimplified in my explanation, but it is true that he saw there being a strong link between the two Mithras but that idea has been largely rejected. This is a tricky one to directly offer because it's more spread out among a number of different sources, but this link (specifically the "4.1. Cumont's hypothesis: possible origins in Persian Zoroastrianism" section) gives examples of Mithraic scholars asserting that Cumont at a minimum overstated the link of the Persian Mithra on the Roman one--some of the footnotes even give direct links to where you can read the statements to confirm them. As for the second, Buddhism reaching Korea in the fourth century is stated, among other sources, by the Encyclopedia Britannica article on Buddhism, which says "Buddhism was first introduced into the Korean peninsula from China in the 4th century CE, when the country was divided into the three kingdoms of Paekche, Koguryŏ, and Silla."
Maybe you should read Alexander Hislop's book The Two Babylons. It was written in the 1800s so it isn't copyrighted any more and can be downloaded from multiple sources on the internet. He traces out paganism from the tower of Babel down to his day.
 
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prodromos

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Maybe you should read Alexander Hislop's book The Two Babylons. It was written in the 1800s so it isn't copyrighted any more and can be downloaded from multiple sources on the internet. He traces out paganism from the tower of Babel down to his day.

Ralph Woodrow had accepted the claims made by Hislop and wrote his own book, "Babylon Mystery Religion" based on Hislop's "Two Babylons", and his book was very popular and sold many copies. However after a number of people challenged him on the veracity of some of his claims, he went back and actually researched the claims of Hislop and found that they were without any historical basis. As a result, he withdrew his book from publication and has written another book, "The Babylon Connection?" which debunks the claims made by Hislop.

Hislop's methodology is that if two things look kinda similar or sound kinda similar, then that is evidence that the one is derived from the other, regardless of how far apart they are in terms of geography, language and chronology. He also just makes stuff up out of whole cloth.
 
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Ralph Woodrow had accepted the claims made by Hislop and wrote his own book, "Babylon Mystery Religion" based on Hislop's "Two Babylons", and his book was very popular and sold many copies. However after a number of people challenged him on the veracity of some of his claims, he went back and actually researched the claims of Hislop and found that they were without any historical basis. As a result, he withdrew his book from publication and has written another book, "The Babylon Connection?" which debunks the claims made by Hislop.

Hislop's methodology is that if two things look kinda similar or sound kinda similar, then that is evidence that the one is derived from the other, regardless of how far apart they are in terms of geography, language and chronology. He also just makes stuff up out of whole cloth.
I've read both books. Woodrow went to non Christian sources like encyclopedias. That's like going to a non Christian to verify the flood. Of course they won't verify it. Ever seen an encyclopedia that talks about Noah's flood? Of course not.

Your objection is noted and dismissed as irrelevant.
 
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prodromos

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I've read both books. Woodrow went to non Christian sources like encyclopedias. That's like going to a non Christian to verify the flood. Of course they won't verify it. Ever seen an encyclopedia that talks about Noah's flood? Of course not.

Your objection is noted and dismissed as irrelevant.
None of Hislop's sources were Christian, so why would you recommend it if you dismiss another book on that basis?
 
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Gary K

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None of Hislop's sources were Christian, so why would you recommend it if you dismiss another book on that basis?
Hislop spent years researching his subject. And while not all of his sources were Christians they verified one another. I've gone through and verified many of his claims myself where he gives sources that aren't behind paywalls or I could still find books/authors he cited. Those were reliable sources such as extremely well-known archeologists of his day or Greek and Roman authors who were well known enough in their day that their writings have survived the centuries.
 
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Hislop spent years researching his subject. And while not all of his sources were Christians they verified one another. I've gone through and verified many of his claims myself where he gives sources that aren't behind paywalls or I could still find books/authors he cited. Those were reliable sources such as extremely well-known archeologists of his day or Greek and Roman authors who were well known enough in their day that their writings have survived the centuries.
 
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prodromos

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Hislop spent years researching his subject. And while not all of his sources were Christians they verified one another. I've gone through and verified many of his claims myself where he gives sources that aren't behind paywalls or I could still find books/authors he cited. Those were reliable sources such as extremely well-known archeologists of his day or Greek and Roman authors who were well known enough in their day that their writings have survived the centuries.
That is total BS
 
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Gary K

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That is total BS
I realize that as an Eastern Orthodox version of Catholicism you don't appreciate Hislop's book, but is is factual all the way through. The reason I have researched it is because I discussed it on another forum and during that discussion I did a lot of research.
 
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prodromos

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I realize that as an Eastern Orthodox version of Catholicism you don't appreciate Hislop's book, but is is factual all the way through. The reason I have researched it is because I discussed it on another forum and during that discussion I did a lot of research.
I have also done a lot of research, which is why I know your claims are false. It isn't a matter of not appreciating Hislop's book, it's a matter of recognizing there is no basis for the conclusions he makes.
 
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I have also done a lot of research, which is why I know your claims are false. It isn't a matter of not appreciating Hislop's book, it's a matter of recognizing there is no basis for the conclusions he makes.
Have it your way but I know better.
 
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