Christianity without Paul

[Righttruth]

So you are comparing David with nominal Christians who are not very close to Christ in their Christian walk? That would be a big mistake. The fact is that God loved David because of his faith and steadfastness. You must think that a sin is more powerful than faithfulness and love.

Did not David repent? Did he commit adultery again? Jesus kept telling people He forgave not to sin anymore.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Animal sacrifices, Passover observance, festivals, etc. all part of the growing up training by God.

Why did people in the OT do animal sacrifices? Why did they observe passover? Did Jesus do all these things also as a Jew?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Did not David repent? Did he commit adultery again? Jesus kept telling people He forgave not to sin anymore.

But David did still sin. So was David saved or not?

 

[Righttruth]

Why did people in the OT do animal sacrifices? Why did they observe passover? Did Jesus do all these things also as a Jew?

He may have kept these to fulfill the letter of the Law before His supreme sacrifice

 

[Righttruth]

But David did still sin. So was David saved or not?

Yes, but salvation is of the Lord. One cannot pick one verse or some verses and claim that as a guarantee of being saved. We are not God to decide on salvation.

 

[ToBeLoved]

He may have kept these to fulfill the letter of the Law before His supreme sacrifice

So let me get this right. You believe only in the Old Testament but do not know why animal and other sacrifices stopped?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, but salvation is of the Lord. One cannot pick one verse or some verses and claim that as a guarantee of being saved. We are not God to decide on salvation.

What one verse are you talking about? You need to be more specific.

 

[Righttruth]

So let me get this right. You believe only in the Old Testament but do not know why animal and other sacrifices stopped?

I consider the OT as Scripture, and I believe the way, life and truth of Jesus; therefore, I can understand why sacrifices became no longer external requirements to please God.

 

[Righttruth]

What one verse are you talking about? You need to be more specific.

There are many verses that people pick and choose to come up with fancy theories, such as, 'faith alone', Once saved is always saved', 'Jesus will work out for you', etc.

 

[Goatee]

I consider the OT as Scripture, and I believe the way, life and truth of Jesus; therefore, I can understand why sacrifices became no longer external requirements to please God.

Sacrifices were no longer needed as Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice. His sacrifice ended all the other sacrifices.

 

[Righttruth]

Sacrifices were no longer needed as Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice. His sacrifice ended all the other sacrifices.

Agreed

 

[tatteredsoul]

How much of Christianity is Paul? Is the faith as we know it made up mostly of Paul and his teachings?

Where would we be without Paul?

I have wondered about Paul. He does seem to take up a large part of the NT in his writings etc. Did he have his own agenda? Was his teachings very different from those of Jesus?

I ask these questions because i am curious to know if others have asked these questions and what answers people give. I for one are very much inexperienced in Biblical matters but i am trying to learn more and more as time goes on.

If you remove the entire New Testament, there is still more than enough to support Christianity. In fact, most Hebrews except for the pharisees were "Christians" in that they knew of, and believed in the redemption prophecy of Christ. The first time we are explicitly given the prophecy is in Genesis 3:15. So, Adam knew. He told his kids. Enoch also wrote extensively about Christ, and told his kids and grandkids. The OT prophets knew about Christ.

Even the disciples knew.

This is why when He actually shows up, it is ridiculous that despite all of the prophecies He fulfils almost constantly in their eyes, they still didn't really know it was Christ. If they knew (and accepted Christ as) Christ, Peter, for example, wouldn't have been rebuked by Him for asking Christ to neglect His duty of dying. Peter knew the Christ had to die; he either didn't really know He was Christ, or he simply didn't care and wanted him to stay with them (out of love and friendship.) Of course the enemy exploited this.

Paul is a spreader of the good news - also the disciples. But, they regurgitated what was said ad nauseum by God, the prophets, and passed down by other Hebrews.

 

[Goatee]

Yes. But a sincere doubter will be clarified as in the case of apostle Thomas.

That was totally different!

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

The SOP says that Paul can't be debated as an Apostle:

General Theology Statement of Purpose

The General Theology forums are for discussing and debating the various theological doctrines of the Christian faith. All member's who participate in GT are self-identified Christians through adherence to the Christian Forums' Statement of Faith and the Trinitarian nature of God. It is expected that people who post in GT will respect all members of the Christian faith. Theological discussions can at times become heated, so please remember to keep your emotions in check and your responses in line with our sitewide rules and the following guidelines.

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• Always remember that you are first and foremost brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of your theological differences and viewpoints.
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• It is considered off topic to challenge Paul's place as an Apostle.

Please edit your posts as soon as you can to avoid any staff actions for breaking the rules.

 

[The Hammer of Witches]

How much of Christianity is Paul? Is the faith as we know it made up mostly of Paul and his teachings?

Where would we be without Paul?

I have wondered about Paul. He does seem to take up a large part of the NT in his writings etc. Did he have his own agenda? Was his teachings very different from those of Jesus?

I ask these questions because i am curious to know if others have asked these questions and what answers people give. I for one are very much inexperienced in Biblical matters but i am trying to learn more and more as time goes on.

Well, Paul's teachings are all based off the truth, he quotes the OT and Christ's teachings many times. There would be Christianity, just not as widespread. God used Paul for great things, to spread the enduring truth.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

According to the rules of this forum (General Theology), saying the NT is not scripture, or challenging Paul's place as an Apostle is not allowed.

Posts will be split out of this thread and moved to Controversial Theology where this kind of discussion is allowed.

 

[The Hammer of Witches]

Well, Paul's teachings are all based off the truth, he quotes the OT and Christ's teachings many times. There would be Christianity, just not as widespread. God used Paul for great things, to spread the enduring truth.

I must also add that if God did not use Paul to spread the gospel, he would probably have raised up another apostle or found other ways to spread the gospel. God is in control of everything, he would have found a way. He chose Paul, that is a great blessing.

 

[mikpat]

Antletems,

Sacrifice: understood in a very general, widest sense, is the surrender of some good for the sake of a good aim, examples alms giving, visiting and caring for the sick, fasting during Lent, mortifications, with the ultimate sacrifice of laying down one's life for his neighbor/fellow-man. Adhering to the Ten commandments, practicing the Sermon on the Mount are all behaviors of sacrifice.
Catholocism is both love and sacrifice.

 

[mikpat]

A piece of advice I try to live by in my discussions— "——a continuous effort not to redicule, not to bewail nor scorn human actions but to understand them". Advice from B. Spinoza.

Following such advice requires some sacrifice, control of my assertive, Irish nature, not too easy sometimes….

 

[faroukfarouk]

To those who say that God could have done everything Paul did without Paul: You're right. Paul wasn't needed to accomplish the things he did- anyone who believed could have done them.

But, and this is crucial here; PAUL was the one who answered the call. He did what God wanted, he BELIEVED in Jesus' resurrection and the redemption of the Cross, and he preached that message of grace to the world.

So yes, God didn't NEED Paul- He CHOSE him. And no matter how much some people might want to minimize or refute Paul's work, the truth is right in The Bible, for anyone to see.

Both the Gospels and the Epistles are part of the New Testament.