Can 'Christians' be members of SECRET societies?

[americanvet]

Hey, I'm FAR from being DONE. But for tonight, or at least right now, I'm going to try and get some sleep. But I'll be back I promise. Suppose to work in the morning but I WILL BE BACK.
Americanvet, I appreciate the conversation. That is EXACTLY why I brought up the subject. In the hopes of being able to discuss it to the point that we can DISCERN the truth of being a follower of Christ and ALSO a member of a SECRET society.
Whatever responses you offer I will address tomorrow. It may be in the afternoon if I get a phone call in the morning. If not, I slip in with a cup a java in my grips.
Have a good morning.
Blessings,
MEC

Masonry is not a secret society. Our grand lodges have websites (some lodges have websites). On these websites are lodge locators so you can find the lodges, where they meet, generally what time, and a point of contact. There are sections of the website that you can complete if interested in membership. The ritual is printed and available for free online.

How is this a secret society?

 

[Andrew Abernathey]

clarify ritual? typo?

 

[americanvet]

clarify ritual? typo?

Each degree/order in Masonry has a ritual drama (a dramatic play of sorts) these teach moral lessons.

 

[Andrew Abernathey]

We agree in this case.

But still, I can't figure out what makes us an ideal teacher and what makes an ideal student (not every person is). We don't know a lot of things, therefore, we will not always be 100% sure we are delivering information in order.

This is why I think we should depend on the Holy Spirit only for information only, John 16:13 and 1 John 2:27.

This makes secret societies a bad idea. I mean how do they know someone is ready to receive? Unless you perform controlled realistic tests that the participants never become aware of, you'll never know.

Find in your Bible and I want youto search for yourself (and pray that the Holy Spirit guides you) but you need to depend on the Holy Spirit for soooooooo much more. There are more than 2 verses in the bible that talk about the Holy Spirit. I will ask this: If we are to rely on the Holy Spirit for information, then what is the power that the Holy Spirit has?

 

[Andrew Abernathey]

Each degree/order in Masonry has a ritual drama (a dramatic play of sorts) these teach moral lessons.

There it is.... and bear with me I am asking the Holy Spirit to speak to me on this. All I can think is Roman. When we are dead we rely on our human spirit to give us wisdom of earthly things. With these rituals you are accepting the "morals" of what is ultimately a cult. They are a ritual of man's wisdom. Bear with me...... Therefore because of Christ and because of His Spirit in me I do not need the "rituals" or "morals" of man. I need His Spirit in me guiding me to know what He has willed me to know. I believe (from the Spirit) that involving any non believer in this cult takes away from the glory of God and involving any believer in this cult other than to sow and reap for Gods kingdom will put a stumbling block in the path of that believer. The free mason ultimate goal is coexisting religion together. That is blatantly obvious, because you HAVE to believe in some form of higher power. This is why we are set apart. this is why other religions that coexist do not like the body of Christ. God tells us NOT to coexist. For if we do He will come in before us and REMOVE them from us. I pray the Holy Spirit convicts you of this just as He just has to me. Do not be apart of any society that wishes to coexist except to minister to those that are dead.

 

[americanvet]

Oh so you were waiting on a "gotcha" moment. I pray the Holy Spirit does convict you but not of my membership in a fraternity but in your deceptive actions against another Christian. Our understanding of what a cult is is obviously different. I also don't think God tells us not to coexist with people who believe differently than us. As that would be insane as a large portion of the world does not agree with Christianity. Are we to show them the love of Christ or just not coexist with them? Since I can't set in a Masonic lodge room with people who are not followers of Christ do you ever set in Christ with people who are not followers of Christ?

The fact is there is nothing within in the Masonic fraternity that I have seen that goes against Holy Scripture. The fact is because I my beliefs are fine with Masonry and yours are not that I, not you in your mind, must pray to the Holy Spirit. Stop for a minute and think, what if I (meaning you) are wrong. Instead of looking for the "gotcha" moment how about being Christ to the world. Cause I promise I will never attempt to catch in such. To avoid further "gotcha" moments you are now added to my blocked list and I will no longer converse with you.

 

[Andrew Abernathey]

Oh so you were waiting on a "gotcha" moment. I pray the Holy Spirit does convict you but not of my membership in a fraternity but in your deceptive actions against another Christian. Our understanding of what a cult is is obviously different. I also don't think God tells us not to coexist with people who believe differently than us. As that would be insane as a large portion of the world does not agree with Christianity. Are we to show them the love of Christ or just not coexist with them? Since I can't set in a Masonic lodge room with people who are not followers of Christ do you ever set in Christ with people who are not followers of Christ?

The fact is there is nothing within in the Masonic fraternity that I have seen that goes against Holy Scripture. The fact is because I my beliefs are fine with Masonry and yours are not that I, not you in your mind, must pray to the Holy Spirit. Stop for a minute and think, what if I (meaning you) are wrong. Instead of looking for the "gotcha" moment how about being Christ to the world. Cause I promise I will never attempt to catch in such. To avoid further "gotcha" moments you are now added to my blocked list and I will no longer converse with you.

Do what you feel you need to. I pray the Lord blesses your life greatly. And pours His love on you and your family. With love I appologize if in some way I offended you. That was not my intent. With your anger I obviously can see I stated some truth or there would have been no need for that anger. If you want to understand my view on coexisting read the first 3 chapters of Revelations. By coexist I do not mean associate with I mean partake of and believe parts of other religions. If you read that again I did that He convicted me as well. I would not pray that the Lord convict you of something that I myself am not convicted of. This was not a "gotcha" moment. This was me praying from the start of the post to the end to Lord above that His Holy Spirit convict me and show His power here that I may through Him tell you what He was speaking to me. If your gotcha moment means "hearing the Holy Spirit" moment then I pray the next person that God puts in your life whether it be from here or in your church that the Lord grips you then. And again I ask when you go before the Lord almighty who sits on the judgement seat. Will He say, Your involvement in the Free Mason Society glorified me and furthered my kingdom and brought more souls into my kingdom. Well done my good and faithful servant.

 

[timewerx]

Freemasonry is not a religion grand lodge websites, bylaws, and even the ritual says this very clearly. Masons meet in a lodge which represents portions of King Solomon’s temple.

Yes, that's what you claim.

But IMHO, if you are familiar with Judaism, you will notice that Freemasonry had many rituals and symbolism from that religion or least just a resemblance but otherwise, looks familiar with that religion.

I'm not saying Freemasonry is a religion of some sort.

It's like children who are playing doctors and obviously they are not doctors! But they are still clearly drawing from the idea of being doctors.

It's just my thing I won't play "let's be Judaism" even if it's just a play of sort. Especially if that involves symbols that has been known to have esoteric connection involving deeper control of one's body or another person. I know a little bit of this from my research with paranormal phenomena combining with science to try to solve things which bothered me in the past.

Take it from me, err on the side of simplicity in everything. Because there are things out there that is way beyond our modern knowledge, and sprinkled with a little ignorance, could do a lot of harm and you won't even know it.

 

[Andrew Abernathey]

Yes, that's what you claim.

But IMHO, if you are familiar with Judaism, you will notice that Freemasonry had many rituals and symbolism from that religion or least just a resemblance but otherwise, looks familiar with that religion.

I'm not saying Freemasonry is a religion of some sort.

It's like children who are playing doctors and obviously they are not doctors! But they are still clearly drawing from the idea of being doctors.

It's just my thing I won't play "let's be Judaism" even if it's just a play of sort. Especially if that involves symbols that has been known to have esoteric connection involving deeper control of one's body or another person. I know a little bit of this from my research with paranormal phenomena combining with science to try to solve things which bothered me in the past.

Take it from me, err on the side of simplicity in everything. Because there are things out there that is way beyond our modern knowledge, and sprinkled with a little ignorance, could do a lot of harm and you won't even know it.

Ya if you read this and still think its ok.......

 

[Albion]

As in ANY organization, there are different LEVELS.

That's always what's said by the opponent of Masonry when everything else in his argument has been disproved.

It goes like this: "Well, there are other levels at which all that I claimed is true, even if it isn't true for the Masons I first said it applies to, and even ordinary Masons don't know about this...but I do, because I read about it somewhere."

 

[Albion]

Yes, that's what you claim.

Yes, that's right. And he would know.

But not only that, all the evidence (that you can find out for yourself if you looked into it) verifies what he said.

But IMHO, if you are familiar with Judaism, you will notice that Freemasonry had many rituals and symbolism from that religion or least just a resemblance but otherwise, looks familiar with that religion.

...which could just as well be said of Christianity, couldn't it?

I won't play "let's be Judaism" even if it's just a play of sort.

I'd be interested, then, to know from you what Christian church is free of any carry-over of all Jewish characteristics, symbols, literature, beliefs, and etc. I can't think of any, but perhaps you had some in mind when writing what you did.

 

[timewerx]

...which could just as well be said of Christianity, couldn't it?

I'm afraid, that is true.

I'd be interested, then, to know from you what Christian church is free of any carry-over of all Jewish characteristics, symbols, literature, beliefs, and etc. I can't think of any, but perhaps you had some in mind when writing what you did.

None, which is why I have stopped going to any Christian Church.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Jews. It's Judaism I don't like because I don't agree with their beliefs on many things. Some Jews also don't like Judaism and have turned Atheist or Christians, etc.

Parts of the Bible mention of the Jews, Israel, no problems with that. But parts of the Bible which espouses Judaist teachings like many parts of the Old Testament, I avoid, thus, I only read a small part of the Bible.


We all want to belong to something like religion but don't let it blind you from finding the Truth even if that means you'll have to be completely alone on your journey.

 

[Albion]

I'm afraid, that is true.

Why be "afraid?" The conclusion is that there is nothing wrong with utilizing Jewish scriptures, architecture, terms, or the like in a fraternity...not anymore than Christianity does itself. And when we get right down to it, all sorts of associations and organizations that millions of us belong to partake of some Jewishness because our culture is so imbued with Christianity. Invocations, chaplains, and so on are not seen as controversial. The Optimists and even the local fire department make use of such.

None, which is why I have stopped going to any Christian Church.

OK, so it's none. We cannot think of a single Christian denomination that is "free" of all Jewish symbols and literature or the like. That being so, what possible complaint could there be (from the Christian perspective) against Masonry for doing the same? There is none, logically speaking.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Jews. It's Judaism I don't like because I don't agree with their beliefs on many things. Some Jews also don't like Judaism and have turned Atheist or Christians, etc.

I understand, and that's a personal matter somewhat removed from this discussion about Secret Societies and Christianity.

 

[timewerx]

OK, so it's none. We cannot think of a single Christian denomination that is "free" of all Jewish symbols and literature or the like. That being so, what possible complaint could there be (from the Christian perspective) against Masonry for doing the same? There is none, logically speaking.

I think from an Orthodox or mainstream (more or less) Christian perspective, there is none indeed.

Luke 6:42 I guess.

I understand, and that's a personal matter somewhat removed from this discussion about Secret Societies and Christianity.

Not exactly a personal matter. Judaism came from Pharisee. Jesus warned against the "yeast of the Pharisee"

Just a little of what resembles Pharisee is enough reason to avoid it. Judaism is far too obvious that it should be avoided at all costs including any part of it that has established itself in Christianity and other religions.

And I think Freemasonry has a little of what belongs to Judaism/Pharisee too.

Are you going to say, it's just like a child's play with Judaist stuff?

Maybe that's true, it's just harmless fun, Freemasonry not really trying to connect with Judaism but I wouldn't play with a loaded gun either, nor just keep one even if I never intend to pull the trigger.

 

[Albion]

Not exactly a personal matter. Judaism came from Pharisee. Jesus warned against the "yeast of the Pharisee"

I meant that you were offering your own thinking about Judaism and Christian churches. Few Christians or Christian churches are similarly concerned.

Maybe that's true, it's just harmless fun, Freemasonry not really trying to connect with Judaism but I wouldn't play with a loaded gun either even if I never intend to pull the trigger.

You're way out of your grade level with this kind of speculation, you know.

 

[Imagican]

I think you might be looking for this:

1 Corinthians 9:22 (KJV)
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

I'm not really sure that Paul LITERALLY meant that he could go and rob banks in the hopes that he might convert one of the bank robbers.

But we are also told not to even sit and eat with those LIVING in sin. So I would question whether ANYONE that exists in the world TODAY has the FAITH of Paul which would ALLOW him to say something that may well DESTROY us if we were to attempt the SAME.
I don't know that a Christian could join a 'church of Satan' in order to try and turn IT around. Most likely the 'Christian' would end up getting burned.
You know, like trying to put a GOOD apple into a basket of rotten apples with the belief that the ONE good apple could somehow refresh the rotten ones? Not a likely event.
While with God ANYTHING is possible, there are many things that are highly UNLIKELY or improbable.
Blessings,
MEC

 

[timewerx]

But we are also told not to even sit and eat with those LIVING in sin. So I would question whether ANYONE that exists in the world TODAY has the FAITH of Paul which would ALLOW him to say something that may well DESTROY us if we were to attempt the SAME.
I don't know that a Christian could join a 'church of Satan' in order to try and turn IT around. Most likely the 'Christian' would end up getting burned.

Faith here in context is having an exceptionally strong-willed mind.

There's a scientific/logical aspect of this I have myself experienced.

 

[tulipbee]

No one serves any masters till they're regenerated. The elects can walk through any society and get bitten by a snake and not be effected by it. You just shrug off man made beliefs like water. How else are the elects going to share the gospel in the societies?

 

[timewerx]

No one serves any masters till they're regenerated. The elects can walk through any society and get bitten by a snake and not be effected by it. You just shrug off man made beliefs like water. How else are the elects going to share the gospel in the societies?

I strongly doubt members of these groups spend 100% of their time in these groups, never getting out to have an opportunity to be ministered outside of their groups...

And I also doubt most Christians who join these groups are in it, firstly, to minister to the group's members.

Why do Christians join leisure clubs?? To minister to their members?? Yeah right....

And I think those getting bombed in the Middle East deserves to be ministered too.....


The day of judgement must be Christ's worst day ever...

Good luck!

 

[Albion]

FWIW, this thread has wandered far from the original point. The question is not about how strong Faith is, whether to join Christian churches, or whether keeping secrets is a good idea and under what circumstances. It concerns whether there is any inherent conflict between being a Christian and belonging to a Secret Society. No one so far has even mentioned a real Secret Society (unless the Church of Satan is one, which I don't think it is). So, how about we now get back to the question of the thread and the title.