Assuming others are Christians

[oi_antz]

IMO, I cannot accept that God was so uninterested in Judaism and Christianity that he allowed them to change and evolve almost randomly

This word "uninterested" - that is the centre of the problem here. I view this point quite differently. Perhaps you have this opinion because you have been convinced that everlasting life depends on someone having satisfied some specific Christian rites during their lifetime. That is a common Christian teaching, but not one that I see as being instituted by God, according to what Jesus said.

 

[cloudyday2]

This word "uninterested" - that is the centre of the problem here. I view this point quite differently. Perhaps you have this opinion because you have been convinced that everlasting life depends on someone having satisfied some specific Christian rites during their lifetime. That is a common Christian teaching, but not one that I see as being instituted by God, according to what Jesus said.

No, generally I've always been a universalist, but you're right - many denominations believe that heaven vs. hell is a big part of Christianity.

I don't think I can explain why I'm an atheist, because it is a result of a lifetime of experiences, testing different ideas, etc. until finally atheism is the only explanation left standing.

 

[cloudyday2]

I am glad that you are doing better. I must admit that I wondered why you were investigating Christianity if you had decided that the Christian faith was no longer a valid worldview for you. I suspect that you are not quite done with the prospect that Christ is a real person and that the Bible, when studied in earnest, is an accurate account of God's relationship with mankind. Care to invest some time? I am going to be gone until tomorrow but why don't you put together some questions and specific issues that are the most unclear to you about what the Bible has to say and perhaps we can discuss them?

Thanks I doubt if there is any chance that I will try Christianity again. I need to start meditating regularly again, because sometimes I think there may be some truth to Buddhism or Hinduism. There is certainly a lot of wisdom in the teachings and practices of the Asian religions even if their supernatural claims are false.

I can't think of any specific issues to discuss on my own lack of belief. If I think of something, I will start a fresh thread (to make it less confusing to any late comers to the thread who might want to respond to the OP).

 

[golgotha61]

Thanks I doubt if there is any chance that I will try Christianity again. I need to start meditating regularly again, because sometimes I think there may be some truth to Buddhism or Hinduism. There is certainly a lot of wisdom in the teachings and practices of the Asian religions even if their supernatural claims are false.

I can't think of any specific issues to discuss on my own lack of belief. If I think of something, I will start a fresh thread (to make it less confusing to any late comers to the thread who might want to respond to the OP).

I just posted here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/bible.7879767/
Take a look and see what you think. Perhaps you need a fresh perspective. BTW, I would find it more in keeping with truth to meditate on the writings of the author of truth.

 

[cloudyday2]

I just posted here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/bible.7879767/
Take a look and see what you think. Perhaps you need a fresh perspective. BTW, I would find it more in keeping with truth to meditate on the writings of the author of truth.

Thanks. That is an interesting post, but I'm pretty happy with the atheistic world view. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I no longer have any worries or hopes associated with Christian claims, because I don't believe them at all. I've gone from thinking "probably not true" to thinking "when pigs fly". I can't summon-up any interest in religion now. (But of course, I appreciate that people care. I just don't want you guys to waste your energy on me. )

 

[golgotha61]

Thanks. That is an interesting post, but I'm pretty happy with the atheistic world view. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I no longer have any worries or hopes associated with Christian claims, because I don't believe them at all. I've gone from thinking "probably not true" to thinking "when pigs fly". I can't summon-up any interest in religion now. (But of course, I appreciate that people care. I just don't want you guys to waste your energy on me. )

I have to wonder if your request for Christians to keep their philosophy and religious convictions to themselves is centered in your desire to remain “happy” in atheism. Do you fear that someone may reopen that door of uneasiness with the thought that perhaps Christ was an historic man and that His deeds were factual? Which would make the Christian ethics more than enough to make the denier of Christ more than uncomfortable. So let me ask you this: what do you do with Christ? Do you deny that He existed historically? This denial of His existence is not plausible and it is easily refuted. Do you then deny the truthfulness or accuracy of the narratives concerning Christ’s life? If this is the case, how do your falsify the Gospel accounts? Logically, if you deny that the Gospel accounts are factual and truthful, then you must exercise some mechanism of falsification on those accounts. How do you do that?

 

[cloudyday2]

I have to wonder if your request for Christians to keep their philosophy and religious convictions to themselves is centered in your desire to remain “happy” in atheism. Do you fear that someone may reopen that door of uneasiness with the thought that perhaps Christ was an historic man and that His deeds were factual? Which would make the Christian ethics more than enough to make the denier of Christ more than uncomfortable. So let me ask you this: what do you do with Christ? Do you deny that He existed historically? This denial of His existence is not plausible and it is easily refuted. Do you then deny the truthfulness or accuracy of the narratives concerning Christ’s life? If this is the case, how do your falsify the Gospel accounts? Logically, if you deny that the Gospel accounts are factual and truthful, then you must exercise some mechanism of falsification on those accounts. How do you do that?

I think Jesus was a historical figure. There are many different theories about who Jesus really was, what he really did, and what he really taught.

Here is a link to various proponents of different historical Jesus theories. The only two authors I have read are Geza Vermes and Bart Ehrman. Both their theories seem plausible to me.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

My motivation for this thread (responding to the first part of your question) was frustration in dealing with my Christian mother and a Christian coworker. My 70 year old mother would be very stressed to learn that I'm atheist, so I must pretend to be a doubting Christian for her sake.

Starting this discussion won't help me, but I thought it might help other atheists. Hopefully some Christian reads this and considers the possibility that his/her friends or family might not believe the same things yet might not want to debate or argue religion. If one Christian decides to cut back just a little bit on the "have a blessed day", "will you pray for so and so", "God is good", etc. then that will help Christians get along better with others IMO.

EDIT: Also, after having spent the last several years reading as much as possible about early Christianity, I am relieved to have reached the stage that I don't think it matters. I'm no longer fighting to kill my faith in Christianity - it's dead. My interest in Christianity was a symptom of psychosis (religiosity). Now that I've recovered, I don't really feel like explaining and defending my dismissal of Christianity. I understand everybody's intentions are good, but I'm burned-out on religion.

 

[golgotha61]

I think Jesus was a historical figure. There are many different theories about who Jesus really was, what he really did, and what he really taught.

Here is a link to various proponents of different historical Jesus theories. The only two authors I have read are Geza Vermes and Bart Ehrman. Both their theories seem plausible to me.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

My motivation for this thread (responding to the first part of your question) was frustration in dealing with my Christian mother and a Christian coworker. My 70 year old mother would be very stressed to learn that I'm atheist, so I must pretend to be a doubting Christian for her sake.

Starting this discussion won't help me, but I thought it might help other atheists. Hopefully some Christian reads this and considers the possibility that his/her friends or family might not believe the same things yet might not want to debate or argue religion. If one Christian decides to cut back just a little bit on the "have a blessed day", "will you pray for so and so", "God is good", etc. then that will help Christians get along better with others IMO.

EDIT: Also, after having spent the last several years reading as much as possible about early Christianity, I am relieved to have reached the stage that I don't think it matters. I'm no longer fighting to kill my faith in Christianity - it's dead. My interest in Christianity was a symptom of psychosis (religiosity). Now that I've recovered, I don't really feel like explaining and defending my dismissal of Christianity. I understand everybody's intentions are good, but I'm burned-out on religion.

Ehrman is a graduate of my alma mater (Moody Bible Inst.) and has drifted from the agnostic to the atheistic in his views. It is my understanding that one of the central issues that helped Ehrman on his way to denying the existence of God was suffering. I think that if he had studied more with the likes of Walton, he may not have been so disturbed by the perceived inconsistencies of the biblical texts. At any rate, I am afraid that your choice of atheism over Christianity is ill advised and I pray for you to reconsider. Take care.

 

[oi_antz]

No, generally I've always been a universalist, but you're right - many denominations believe that heaven vs. hell is a big part of Christianity.

I don't think I can explain why I'm an atheist, because it is a result of a lifetime of experiences, testing different ideas, etc. until finally atheism is the only explanation left standing.

Neither universalism or everlasting hell is doctrine derived from the bible. Have you ever encountered a Christianity that empasises strict biblical study? If so, why did you find that it did not withstand your tests?

 

[cloudyday2]

Neither universalism or everlasting hell is doctrine derived from the bible. Have you ever encountered a Christianity that empasises strict biblical study? If so, why did you find that it did not withstand your tests?

I've been exposed to that approach a few times, but it seems a bit silly to me - like trying to learn the truth from peering into your alphabet soup... hmm maybe if I give it another stir.

Nope, now I base my life on strict study of Star Trek TOS

SCOTT: We're turning back. Warp five, Helm.
SULU: Warp five, sir. On course for Capella Four.
SCOTT: Warp 6 as soon as she'll take it, Mister Sulu. The captain could be in trouble back there.
UHURA: Mister Scott, another distress call from the USS Carolina.
SCOTT: Ignore it.
UHURA: The Carolina is registered in this sector.
SCOTT: Ignore it, Lieutenant. Log it as my order, my responsibility.
UHURA: Aye, aye, sir.
SULU: Scotty, if it should turn out to be real
SCOTT: There's an old, old saying on Earth, Mister Sulu. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/32.htm

EDIT: Of course, I'm glad the approach works for others, and I hope nobody is insulted by my silly sense of humor.

 

[oi_antz]

I've been exposed to that approach a few times, but it seems a bit silly to me - like trying to learn the truth from peering into your alphabet soup... hmm maybe if I give it another stir.

Nope, now I base my life on strict study of Star Trek TOS

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/32.htm

EDIT: Of course, I'm glad the approach works for others, and I hope nobody is insulted by my silly sense of humor.

Not insulted at all, and I understand why you do not have interest in it that this time. But you also need to know that it isn't silly, it is the opposite to taking the broad road that most travel on. Jesus said it is the path that leads to life.

 

[cloudyday2]

Not insulted at all, and I understand why you do not have interest in it that this time. But you also need to know that it isn't silly, it is the opposite to taking the broad road that most travel on. Jesus said it is the path that leads to life.

thanks.