Ariel Sharon's Death And The Coming of Messiah: Prophesied By Rabbi In Israel

Interplanner

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The first mistake is at the 7th min when he assumes that Dan 9:27's antecedent (grammatical reference pronoun) is to antichrist. The paragraph is about Messiah.

The middle is not the linear exact center anyway. It is else where trans as "in the midst".

So the covenant is not the sinister agreement but the Gospel with the many ("the many" being a term of endearment for those who believe in other prophetic passages.

It is remarkable that someone as articulate as he seems to be would go out on a limb with such a news shaped interp!

I'm not even sure that "antichrist" ever gets an antecedent in this paragraph, because the other antecedent (after the Messiah in important or author attention) is the prince of the people who are to come--Rome, as far as I know. 3rd is the character who causes desolation, who was first refered to as the leader of the 'rebellion that desolates' back in ch 8.
 
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Interplanner

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Pretty much a waste of time here. "Covenant" does not equal modern peace treaty.

Joel 3: I don't think this person knows too much about the DofJ. If Joel 3 was the answer of justice to the DofJ it wouldn't mention scattering and dividing as much as the rebels own self-destructive stupidity. And it would mention paganization. Then it would mention the attempts to reconstruct Jerusalem, but the issues cited by Holford in his essay about the molten heat that drove away construction workers.

This kind of preaching is mostly a waste of time compared to how the apostles operated and the real mission of believers.
 
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Interplanner said in post 121:

"Covenant" does not equal modern peace treaty.

In Daniel 9:26, the original Hebrew word (karath, H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). The future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be the fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false Messiah and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).
 
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yeshuasavedme

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As to the age we live in, which is coming to a close even as the Messiah's return and Revealing to Israel and to the world draws near,
1 Chronicles 25:1 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was:
David appointed the sons of Asaph to prophesy with harps, and in Psalm 83, a prophesy made by the sons of Asaph is not a plea for intervention, as the translators made it, but an absolute prophetic victory song about the nations that will surround Israel in a conspiracy to cut her off from being a nation and to take her land -God's Land- to themselves; and the absolute victorious manner in which God totally destroys them!

That is upcoming, and soon. Before the signs can begin in the doings of the sign nation/Israel, which mark and countdown to the absolute day of the Messiah's revealing to the nation of Israel and to the world, Psalm 83 has to be totally fulfilled, which will give Israel her Covenant land borders back, and cause a return from the second disapora of the tribes of Israel to the land -even the nations of the world will joyfully return her tribes to her land after Psalm 83.

As to when the Church will be raptured, whether before Psalm 83 or after, we have no sign for the rapture, just a command to watch and pray to be counted worthy to escape and to stand before the Son of Man in His temple in heaven, as His adopted sons and priests of the heavenly order; but Psalm 83 must be fulfilled, and the Church must be removed, before the two witnesses begin their Witness in the streets of Jerusalem -which will begin the countdown to the Day of Revelation of Messiah to Israel; and of The"Roaring Lion of Judah" to the nations.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The rapture of the Church is always imminent, but the restoration of Irael as a nation and the head of the nations on earth has never been so pregnant as now, for the soon restoration by the signs God gave through His prophets and through the LORD Jesus Christ.

So as a student of the Word of God, I can say that before those signs can begin the seven year countdown to the revelation of Messiah to the entire world as John wrote, and as other prophets wrote before him, the prophesy of Psalm 83 must be fulfilled.
Whether the Church is raptured before that or not has nothing to do with its soon being to happen, as the nations are in their own death throes now, who are conspiring to wipe Israel off the map and to take God's land for themselves.
 
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Interplanner

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As with the other doctrines about AC etc, I always look for whether the people who have found the key to unlock things realize they are looking at a tragedy. They get a lot of thrill out of knowing even if the knowing is that of a rape or decimation. And so, in this case, it seems to be the same, re Ps 83. Why would the nations joyfully give back the broader land to Israel if it is part of a huge deception anyway? Why would we as Biblical students have any feeling but consternation about all this if it is true?

That's why I stick with the official apostolic interp of Israel's history (Acts 13's sermon) which doesn't feature any of this. The climax is Christ's arrival as the grace of God to be a Gospel to the nations. This event is the fulfillment "of all that was promised to the fathers." And the promises to David were transfered to Christ, says Is 59, quoted in this same sermon, about the benefits of the Resurrected man to his believers.
 
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I spent about 15 minutes listening before I got to some real content that had theological roots. I thought he was going another direction since his feature book is a critique of MacArthur.

At 15 minutes, Brown equated Biblical love for the Jewish people with love for their future, in the sense of current issues, battles, protection.

This is not how the NT sounds. You could say the NT can't possibly sound like anything in 2014, and there is some truth to that. But I mean about Brown's belief that the God of the OT and the NT continues the same discussion about loving the Jewish people. I don't think it is right to equate the NT love for the Jewish people with love for their "positions" in all those details about those current situations that they find themselves in today.

What the NT resounds with is that the promises to the fathers are fulfilled in the Gospel events of Jesus Christ. His resurrection is the proof and provision of justification from sins. This is how the sermon in Acts 13 sounds (given in a synagogue), Gal 3-4, Rom 3-4, 2 Cor 3-5, Heb 9-11. That's what I'm interested in sounding like. The upraised "fallen tent of David" is the nations believing that Gospel and enjoying salvation from the debt of sin.

Otherwise you are trying to bridge two things at once: a secular Jewish state which is just as confused as the rest of society and an actual believing people, and in the NT usage, the ethnos of a people doesn't matter anymore.
 
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Interplanner

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Note to Messy and others:
the link just goes to the current broadcast. You have to click around to find the recent one about the Jewish people.

I did get back to this since last post and about 45 mins they are trying to sort out Rom 11:26. They don't do a very good job of covering all that is said and upholding contexts. For ex., the usual "national restoration" is proven by 11:26. Yet that chapter urges Jews simply to believe, and asserts that if they do believe they will be very effective in the Christian mission; it does not necessarily follow that if we see the word "saved" that we are talking about Israel's borders and economy.

For the same reason, "gifts and calling" are lifted up for the same reason. Paul called other people 'enemies of the Gospel' too. He simply means here that some will believe all through time. It is not an either/or construct. The conclusive acts of God in this department are present tense, as shown by the three "nows" in the rest of the paragraph.

Brown seems to jump back and forth between faith and today's Israel's practical issues, which the NT is not trying to do. It is always speaking about the community of faith in the Gospel, the same we believe. This community was created when the Spirit was poured out per the OT visions of that when Messiah came.
 
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Interplanner

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I really hate to see anyone's belief system let them down as badly as claims about modern Israel could. I urge all believers to stick with the most solid of NT passages on such things, like Acts 13's sermon, and Rom 3's "now the (covenantal reliability) of God is revealed (in the Gospel of propitiation as spelled out in those verses). You will always be grounded.
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi yeshua saved

Sorry for the late response I have been very busy.

I have never heard the concept of shortening the days by 8 hours or 1/3. That would mean the earth's rotation would have to increase to 1500 miles per hour.

As far as the fallen Angels not being called Satan this is not true.

Enoch 40:7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord 8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden:

In Enoch all the Fallen Angels are called Satans

In Genesis the serpent deceives Eve. It is common belief that this is the Devil yet Enoch names the Fallen Angel that deceives Eve.

And the third was named Gadreel: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons 7 of death to the children of men.

Now we know that Azazel taught men to make weapons

1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them,

So what we have is two names for the same Fallen Angel, which at first glance seems to be an inconsistency. However we all have more than one name. You will also notice that it appears to be two Fallen Angels named Azazel. The tenth leader and the twenty First Leader. I believe this is just referring to the leaders of the two groups Azazel being a leader of Both 50 and five groups of 10 were as Semjaza is a leader of 200

We also know God says the whole mess is blamed on Azazel.

Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which 7 men were striving to learn: And Semjaza, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates.

And the whole earth has been corrupted 9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.'

So it is very clear that the serpent that deceived Eve was in fact Azazel not the Devil.

Enoch also Names the Fallen Angel that deceives the other Angels and councils them to Go against God.

And the second was named Asbeel: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled 6 their bodies with the daughters of men.

We are told that the Angel who did this is Also Satan.

6 And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.'

What this shows us is that they are all called Satan. Satan just means adversary.

Since the destruction of so many book by Constantine all of these Satans have been combined into one entity. Many even believe the beast in the pit is the Devil and that The Angel in the pit is the Devil.

Here is the reality all of the Fallen Angels are Satans / Adversaries of God and man.

The Giants their children are now demons. That is their disembodied souls are demons.

Even though Azazel is not the leader of the 200 he is blamed for everything.

He taught mankind weapons and War.
He deceived Eve.

The only conclusion we can come to is that the Devil IE: Lucifer was not originally the only one called Satan.

In the Canon Bible it appears to be only Lucifer that is called Satan.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Hi yeshua saved

Sorry for the late response I have been very busy.

I have never heard the concept of shortening the days by 8 hours or 1/3. That would mean the earth's rotation would have to increase to 1500 miles per hour.
The earth does not rotate, spin, tilt, or move in any way. It is fixed in place, and the heavens go around it as the "Circle" of the earth, and in the heavens, the sun, moon, and stars have their peculiar paths.

This is the doctrine of the Bible and of the Book of Enoch. Only fallible man has decided God is not able to tell us the Truth about His creation from the beginning; but we who read the Word have no excuse to doubt God. The heavens go round the earth once a day, in an evening and a morning, from the beginning, and were stretched out between the divided in two waters of creation on day 2.
Earth is not a planet, which means "to wander". The wandering stars are those stars called planets, which have no light in them.

Now there is a time coming, in the tribulation, when the earth will be moved out of her place and jump about as a hunted roe and stagger as a drunken man and be removed as a cottage, out of her place. Then the seasons will be backwards cause the earth will be turned upside down, and the stars will not appear in their order, and men will take them to be Gods, and God will send a strong delusion on men to believe that lie.
The above is laid out in Enoch, first, and Isaiah makes mention as well as several more of God's holy prophets.

When that all happens, the night and the day will not shine for 1/3 of their parts, each, which will cause the day to be one third less than now -with evening and morning parts cut off by a total third of their ordained shining.
Jesus says it is cut off in relation to all flesh surviving, and the sun is struck and shines hotter and the moon shines hotter and there is no relief on earth from the heat of the sun and moon smiting them, but for the cutting off of them by the third.

Another fact about the heavens is that they are stretched out from the earth, as their origin, on day 2 of creation week, and they have "layers/stories". The third heaven is where Eden is, the Holy Mount of God, and where Paradise, God's Garden, is. That also is in the Word. -and it is Adam who was in the Holy Mount and got cast down because of his pride. We are all called "Adam" by God, in His Word, from the beginning.
Satan is not and never was a fallen holy angel, and certainly not ever called a "cherub". Cherubim have 4 faces: Adam, bull, eagle, lion. The Bull face is the "Cherub" face. They have calf legs, calf feet, six wings, and an Adam hand under their wings.




There are many satans created as evil spirits, who are in heaven until they are cast down to earth in the tribulation and then they have little time to lay up their food in store, which food and drink for them is to torment those who believe their lies and act upon them without repenting.

If you do a study in the Word you will find that the evil spirits in heaven serve God. They are angels of destruction, or evil angels -satans. They were created to do what they do, and they sift and try the sons of men and holy angels, so as to expose the hearts of all. The tried and tested saints enter their glory, having been refined as gold in the fire.
The Lake of Fire was created for the Devil and his angels, and they are created evil spirits for whom the Lake of Fire was prepared from the beginning, to be their dark domain forever and forever. Every human being whose name gets blotted out of the Book of Life gets cast there in their resurrected and never dying body, minus the Adam spirit, and without the Adam spirit in body with soul, those cast there are the "never dying worms" who can never be elementally morphosed into the image of the Son of God for the Gory.

They will be tormented -which is food and drink to the Satans- forever, in proportion as their deeds done with their own wills, deserve. the angels who fell became subject to the Satans as Enoch wrote, when they received the temptation and acted upon it, and will be tormented by the satans in the Lake of Fire, forever -as well as their evil offspring, who are the demons and who will never rise in the bodies they got unlawfully.


There is a list fragment in Enoch which names some satans, and the one who tempted Eve is named. They were not holy angels, but angels of destruction and lying spirits and the tempters of holy angels and of the Adam creation.

Abaddon is a named Satan, also, who is in charge of the bottomless pit and who feeds Sheol her victims, for whom she opens wide her mouth to receive them -as the Word says.

And in the Book of Jubilees, Prince Mastema means "Prince of the satans".


So what we have is two names for the same Fallen Angel, which at first glance seems to be an inconsistency. However we all have more than one name. You will also notice that it appears to be two Fallen Angels named Azazel. The tenth leader and the twenty First Leader. I believe this is just referring to the leaders of the two groups Azazel being a leader of Both 50 and five groups of 10 were as Semjaza is a leader of 200
Smj-aza/ Azazel/Samiazaz are the same watcher and the leader who led the others to take the oath and be forever cursed and not able to enter heaven by marrying daughters of Adam, in their bodies they took for ministry on earth which they would never be able to depart from again, and return to heaven as the "Flame of Fire" that Watchers appear in in heaven.
The total were 200 who fell, under Azazel.

His name is spelled in the English three or four ways in Enoch, because of language and translations through time.
The spellings differ of the names only because of different translations coming down and fragments only, of the manuscripts, in some places. Enoch's own writing is now missing the name of the 20th Watcher, in this passage:

Enoch wrote, and translators translated: 7And these are the names of their leaders: Samiazaz, their leader, Arakiba, Rameel, Kokabiel, Tamiel, Ramiel, Danel, ezeqeel, Baraqijal, Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. 8These are their chiefs of tens...

A Noah fragment in Enoch names the fallen angels, and because of translation and scribal errors, we see the differences in spelling, also..
In the Torah the spelling of names differs from book to book of the same person, and sometimes in the same book, because of translators and there are scribal errors in the Torah accounts we have, and also in other books in the Bible [like Kings and Chronicles not agreeing on numbers of Solomon's horses and chariots, etc..]

Noah wrote, and translators translated:
2And behold the names of those angels and these are their names: the first of them is Samjaza, the second Artaqifa, and the third Armen, the fourth Kokabel, the fifth Turael, the sixth Rumjal, the seventh Danjal, the eighth Neqael, the ninth Baraqel, the tenth Azazel, the eleventh Armaros, the twelfth Batarjal, the thirteenth Busasejal, the fourteenth Hananel, the fifteenth Turel, and the sixteenth Simapesiel, the seventeenth Jetrel, the eighteenth Tumael, the nineteenth Turel, the twentieth Rumael, the twenty-first Azazel.

So the Enoch translation drops a name, and the Noah translation adds an extra name. There are 20 leaders of tens, only, not 19 and not 21.

Also, the spelling of the asael in Enoch's list is the same spelled azazel in the Noah list, but Semj-Aza is Azazel as is proved in that he is named as the one to whom all sin is ascribed, and which on the Day of Atonement one goat was elected by lot and all the sins and iniquities of God's people were confessed over him by the laying on of hands, and he was sent away, "To Azazel", bearing those sins.
The translators did not know what to make of it, having been denied access to Enoch, and translated Azazel as "scapegoat" - and so another myth was born out of ignorance of the wisdom hidden away by fallible men.

Sorry for the choppy reading....I do not want to take time to edit more at the moment....hope this is readable, anyway..
 
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Just The Facts

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HI

Quote
The earth does not rotate, spin, tilt, or move in any way. It is fixed in place, and the heavens go around it as the "Circle" of the earth, and in the heavens, the sun, moon, and stars have their peculiar paths.
End Quote

Ok Then
 
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coraline

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Rabbinic Judaism is a man- made religion.

Biblical Judaism ended in AD70 when God terminated his theocratic relationship with the Synagogue of Satan Jews, who rejected their Messiah!

Don't listen or waste time on Rabbinic Jews who say the Messiah still must come.

We have more important things to read & do!
 
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LilLamb219

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MOD HAT ON

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This thread has undergone a Thread Clean Up.

These little jabs some of the members here have been taking at others is unacceptable! It is better to show our love for others than to insult them or mock them.

Please remember to stick to the topic and not make your postings personal!

MOD HAT OFF
 
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