Ariel Sharon's Death And The Coming of Messiah: Prophesied By Rabbi In Israel

[random person]

What you have is a lot of what doesn't apply Bible2! The fault of this whole idea is God's kingdom is NOT of this world. Back to the "theological drawing board".

When Jesus died...it then became about the "Jerusalem above". It's not an issue of "either/or"...Hebrews 12:22-24:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

It's that simple! It has NOTHING to do with earthly Jerusalem!

Let's stop right there. Where does scripture speak to building a 3rd temple...and where does the NT speak of a 3rd temple?

Ditto, and Dispensationalist claim the Lawless apostate state of Israel is under the grace of God but what does Galatians 5:3-4 say?

It is also in my Sig!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...Our Lord was trying to make it plain too. He didn't utter ONE WORD about the restoration of Israel.
...

I would like to introduce you to YHWH, in the person of God the Word and the Messiah who was to come in flesh of New Man creation and is come in that flesh, which flesh as a new creation is named "Israel"; and to introduce you to His words of promise to restore Israel, to what His plan was for her to be in from beginning.

John 12:
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Yeshua, pre-incarnate, on the Throne in heaven, in Isaiah 6:

Isaiah 6

King James Version (KJV)

6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also YHWH sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is YHWH of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, YHWH of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of YHWH , saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12 And YHWH have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.



Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


In the Tenach, YHWH the Word, through His prophets, told us of Israel's restoration.

In Revelation of Jesus Christ, we see the Messiah is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah -a Jew!



And in the Revelation of Jesus Christ which He gave to John, we see the City of God has twelve gates to enter into, named after the twelve tribes of Israel.

In Ezekiel, we see that the Temple of God on earth in the millennium is built in Jerusalem below, and Ezekiel gives the details of that glorious temple where the Glory of God will enter in the Person of God the Word, and dwell in the midst of His namesake people of JAaob's seed, forever.

Ezekiel 40-Ezekiel 48

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Against all Odds, The Miracle of Israel

miracles God performed in Israel Against All Odds Part 1-13. - YouTube

 

[ebedmelech]

I would like to introduce you to YHWH, in the person of God the Word and the Messiah who was to come in flesh of New Man creation and is come in that flesh, which flesh as a new creation is named "Israel"; and to introduce you to His words of promise to restore Israel, to what His plan was for her to be in from beginning.

You can't introduce Me YHWH I already know Him!

Very flawed response! Jesus is never the "New Man" because He never sinned. The scripture always refers to the church is the new man...made of Jews and Gentiles. That would be Ephesians 2:14, 15.

Israel is not Jesus simply by the meaning of the name which was given to Jacob and means "wrestles with God". Jesus never wrestles with God...He ALWAYS did the will of the Father. That's another flaw in what you're saying.

The church is spiritual Israel...the "TRUE CIRCUMCISION"...Philippians 3:3!

John 12:
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Yeshua, pre-incarnate, on the Throne in heaven, in Isaiah 6:

Isaiah 6

King James Version (KJV)

6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also YHWH sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is YHWH of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, YHWH of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of YHWH , saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12 And YHWH have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.



Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


In the Tenach, YHWH the Word, through His prophets, told us of Israel's restoration.

In Revelation of Jesus Christ, we see the Messiah is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah -a Jew!



And in the Revelation of Jesus Christ which He gave to John, we see the City of God has twelve gates to enter into, named after the twelve tribes of Israel.

In Ezekiel, we see that the Temple of God on earth in the millennium is built in Jerusalem below, and Ezekiel gives the details of that glorious temple where the Glory of God will enter in the Person of God the Word, and dwell in the midst of His namesake people of JAaob's seed, forever.

Ezekiel 40-Ezekiel 48

You're loaded with OT prophecies that are already fulfilled! That's the first problem.

The second problem is the God's temple is now the Church. Forget Ezekiel's temple....because it's never going to happen.

The church is the temple...and we believers are "living sacrifices" Romans 12:1, 2.

Now...from previous debates it's obvious you're going to hold to your view...but it is flawed.

Israel's restoration will be in the Lord Jesus per Romans 11...with Jesus who "once for all" was the sacrifice for sin. No need for a temple!

Did you miss out on Hebrews 12:22-24:?
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God,the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

That is true restoration...and I hope that helps you...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

יִשְׂרָאֵל

"Israel" is a sentence of three Hebrew words which, transliterated to English, are:
Ish /Man -Adam was the first man and the old man;
Sar [sarah]/ prince/ruler

El/ god, mighty one

Adam, the old man, and first man/ish is from two Hebrew words which, transliterated to English are:
adamah/ ground;

dam/ blood.

Adam is a of the earth. Adam is "earth blood", "earthy".

Adam is the name of the firstborn son of God of the human being kind, who died as a son of God in the fall. The entire old man race of human beings is from the loins of the firstborn father of the race. We are all Adam. The name, Adam, is used for the father of the race or for a person in Adam or for the race in general 552 times in the Hebrew Bible.


Genesis 5:2 "Male and female made He them, and called their name "Adam...".

Israel is the name of the second creation Firstborn Son of God of the human being kind and of His entire number of adopted sons of God who are adopted into His New Man creation of the human being kind.

The adoption pertains to Israel, as Paul states, in Romans 9.
Rom 9:4 ...Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

YHWH invoked His own New Man name over Jacob and every seed of Jacob has that name as a natural branch in the New Planting of Righteousness in the earth.

Gentiles do not get the name even though they are adopted into the One New Man Living Spirit, until they are born again into the One New Man living flesh of second human being creation flesh.


Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The name, "Israel", is named as the second creation human being Son of God, in Isaiah 49.

In the Tenach and in the second canon, the name "Israel" is the name of God which He invoked over Jacob and his seed, forever.

Christ come in flesh as Israel, the brother to Adam and the Kinsman/Redeemer of his "barren widow", marries the widow [Zion of the heavenlies =the Woman of the Spiritual realm who was barren as to getting sons for the building up of Zion when Adam died -and all his seed died in him as sons of God], and by adopting the seed of Adam and regenerating them in Spirit and in flesh, by paying the Ransom to get them and their lost kingdom back, He then has the living stones -His adopted sons- for the building up of Zion above, "For the Glory" to indwell,

That is what the Message of our redemption is about.

 

[ebedmelech]

יִשְׂרָאֵל

"Israel" is a sentence of three Hebrew words which, transliterated to English, are:
Ish /Man -Adam was the first man and the old man;
Sar [sarah]/ prince/ruler

El/ god, mighty one

That would be totally incorrect simply based on the fact Jacob is wrestling with pre-incarnate Jesus. The passage is Genesis 32:24-29:
24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak.
25 When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob’s thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him.
26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.”
28 He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.”
29 Then Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved.”

I have no idea how you get the definition of Israel from but the text clearly tells us why Jacob received that name. Jesus' conclusion for giving Jacob the name "Israel" is given in what He said: "for you have striven with God and prevailed"

Adam, the old man, and first man/ish is from two Hebrew words which, transliterated to English are:
adamah/ ground;

dam/ blood.

Adam is a of the earth. Adam is "earth blood", "earthy".

Adam is the name of the firstborn son of God of the human being kind, who died as a son of God in the fall. The entire old man race of human beings is from the loins of the firstborn father of the race. We are all Adam. The name, Adam, is used for the father of the race or for a person in Adam or for the race in general 552 times in the Hebrew Bible.


Genesis 5:2 "Male and female made He them, and called their name "Adam...".

Israel is the name of the second creation Firstborn Son of God of the human being kind and of His entire number of adopted sons of God who are adopted into His New Man creation of the human being kind.

The problem with your idea is this...Adam was created perfect, but he sinned! Jesus is from "EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING", He is not created, HE IS ETERNALLY THE GOD MAN. Therefore, it's a basic flaw to even want to call Christ a "New Man" as you do. Scripture never does that...you cant find one example of Christ being called a "New Man" in scripture.

The ONLY time the words "new man" is used in scripture, it is used of describing the joining of Jews and Gentiles in one body to God in Ephesians 2:14, 15.

The use of the term is flawed when it comes to Jesus.

The adoption pertains to Israel, as Paul states, in Romans 9.
Rom 9:4 ...Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

You're forgetting Israel broke the covenant too. That's sends you off in the wrong direction right there. They also crucified Christ. You can't just ignore that!

Let's start with God speaking to Moses in Deuteronomy 31:16:
16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

Jeremiah 31:10:
10 They have turned back to the iniquities of their ancestors who refused to hear My words, and they have gone after other gods to serve them; the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers.”

In Ezekiel 16, God is calling Israel and Judah "Sodom and Samaria" as two sisters? This is Ezekiel 16:58, 59:
58 You have borne the penalty of your lewdness and abominations,” the Lord declares.
59 For thus says the Lord God, “I will also do with you as you have done, you who have despised the oath by breaking the covenant.
I can supply other passages, but those make the point. Furthermore have you read

This is why God made a New Covenant which includes Israel as well as Gentiles. That must be understood! God is not obligated to Israel to do anything. What He will do...He does out of His grace, which Romans 11 says.

YHWH invoked His own New Man name over Jacob and every seed of Jacob has that name as a natural branch in the New Planting of Righteousness in the earth.

I've dealt with this erroneous premise of your's above. God is not a New Man. That may be your way of referring to it...but it's flawed. God gave Jacob a new name because Jacob wrestled with Him and prevailed. It's in the passage.

Gentiles do not get the name even though they are adopted into the One New Man Living Spirit, until they are born again into the One New Man living flesh of second human being creation flesh.

Once again error! Listen to Paul as he speaks to a Gentile Ephesian church in Ephesians 2:11:
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—
12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Why is Paul saying that they were FORMERLY GENTILES yeshuasavedme? Do some thinking about that one!

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Paul is speaking to a Roman church went he wrote this, that church contained Jews and Gentiles (Paul addressed many of them by name in the 16th chapter), so this is not to only Jews this is to ALL CHRISTIANS. What's your point?

The name, "Israel", is named as the second creation human being Son of God, in Isaiah 49.

We know that cant be...because Jacob was given the name Israel in Genesis 32. No need to go there,

In the Tenach and in the second canon, the name "Israel" is the name of God which He invoked over Jacob and his seed, forever.

Ok...so read what you said right above this...but also realize how flawed it is to call Jesus a second creation. John 1:1:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
There's a basic problem in calling Jesus the "second anything" other than "The Second Adam" because He did what Adam didn't do...He obeyed God perfectly in human flesh.

Christ come in flesh as Israel, the brother to Adam and the Kinsman/Redeemer of his "barren widow", marries the widow [Zion of the heavenlies =the Woman of the Spiritual realm who was barren as to getting sons for the building up of Zion when Adam died -and all his seed died in him as sons of God], and by adopting the seed of Adam and regenerating them in Spirit and in flesh, by paying the Ransom to get them and their lost kingdom back, He then has the living stones -His adopted sons- for the building up of Zion above, "For the Glory" to indwell,

Flawed again. Jesus is not Israel, and you cannot find one example example of Jesus calling himself Israel. Again, Jesus was named Yeshua because of what His name means "YHWH is salvation". Gabriel told Joseph "you shall call His name Jesus, (why?)..."for He will save His people from their sins."

That is what the Message of our redemption is about.

Redemption is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4...Jesus bought us back. Pretty much like Boaz bought Ruth back...

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 59:

The fault of this whole idea is God's kingdom is NOT of this world.

John 18:36 means that Jesus' future, physical reign on the earth, with the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), won't be of this world in the sense that it won't come by worldly means, such as by the church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus returning from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), a new earth will be created and God's kingdom will continue on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

ebedmelech said in post 59:

When Jesus died...it then became about the "Jerusalem above". It's not an issue of "either/or"...Hebrews 12:22-24 . . .

It's "both/and".

For God still has regard for the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). Even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-18), Jerusalem will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

*******

ebedmelech said in post 64:

The second problem is the God's temple is now the Church.

While the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), note that it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

ebedmelech said in post 64:

Forget Ezekiel's temple....because it's never going to happen.

Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, like those in Revelation must happen (Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament/Old Covenant times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

Nonetheless, when Jesus returns and begins his millennial reign on the earth (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:3-21), he will still build a New Covenant, 4th temple building in Jerusalem; and New Covenant animal sacrifices will be offered in front of that temple (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). Instead of these sacrifices being for sin, they could be for thanksgiving (cf. Leviticus 22:29). Jesus could build that temple, and it could be operated according to the description in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48, but leaving out the parts about animal sacrifices for sin. Another possibility is that New Covenant animal sacrifices for sin will be made, but only as a remembrance of Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28), like how communion is currently partaken of in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice (Luke 22:19). The current practice of communion could cease at Jesus' return (1 Corinthians 11:26).

Also, after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), when the literal city of New Jerusalem will land on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3), there will no longer be any temple building (Revelation 21:22).

 

[SwordFall]

I didn't know definitively anti-Christian adherents had prophetic power over, let's say, actual believers of Christianity.

How convenient. Get their coming messiah's autograph while you're at it, so I can sell it to the atheists and serve their real agenda (which is the exact same thing as Jews)

 

[ebedmelech]

John 18:36 means that Jesus' future, physical reign on the earth, with the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), won't be of this world in the sense that it won't come by worldly means, such as by the church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus returning from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), a new earth will be created and God's kingdom will continue on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

Pretty much wrong. Jesus reigns! Anytime you have a question keep reading Matthew 28:18.

It's "both/and".

No...that's not what the scriptures says.

For God still has regard for the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). Even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-18), Jerusalem will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

God is not into land deals. The Promised Land is a picture of heaven.

While the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), note that it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

Done this with you a few times. The only temple God is concerned with, is the one with "living stones". with the apostles as the foundation, and Jesus as the cornerstone.

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

They might...but God will have NO REGARD for it...or what's offered there.

Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, like those in Revelation must happen (Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament/Old Covenant times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

You're waffling. It was a vision Ezekiel had. The only condition was if Israel was ashamed he was to show them the plan.

Nonetheless, when Jesus returns and begins his millennial reign on the earth (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:3-21), he will still build a New Covenant, 4th temple building in Jerusalem; and New Covenant animal sacrifices will be offered in front of that temple (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). Instead of these sacrifices being for sin, they could be for thanksgiving (cf. Leviticus 22:29). Jesus could build that temple, and it could be operated according to the description in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48, but leaving out the parts about animal sacrifices for sin. Another possibility is that New Covenant animal sacrifices for sin will be made, but only as a remembrance of Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28), like how communion is currently partaken of in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice (Luke 22:19). The current practice of communion could cease at Jesus' return (1 Corinthians 11:26).

Also, after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), when the literal city of New Jerusalem will land on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3), there will no longer be any temple building (Revelation 21:22).

Saying it doesn't make it so. Put down the commentaries and get in the word Bible2...the reign is now!

 

[riverrat]

Yep...those who crucified Christ thought He had no credibility.

Hebrews 12:22-24:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

You do understand the new covenant trumps the old???

Quite credible when your not "overly literal" and you understand what the Savior taught...

This post of yours does not address my post. Good dodge.

Now to this post of yours above. The covenant was made at the cross to Israel but will not be in effect until Christ returns to earth and sets up the kingdom.

 

[Interplanner]

uhhh, that's just a pile of words that does not resonate with the apostles statements even though all the terms and names are there.

What did the apostles mean when they quoted that passage?

What does it mean to be "in Christ the new creation" in 2 Cor 5?

EbedM is very well versed in Eph 2-3 which is the most complete comment on the promises of Israel. More than the sermon in Acts 13. And in Gal 3-4. The letter to Ephesians was more a publication than a letter to one church as you can see from the note at v1 (the destination was blank). It went to all of his churches.

 

[Interplanner]

Rat,
your delayed new covenant has no basis at all.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Firstborn Son of God is named Israel. Adam is not a son of God since the fall.

The only brother created flesh to the Adam creation is named "Israel", and before He was come, He revealed his formerly secret name to Jacob, when He invoked it over Him.

Ever after, "Israel" is the Firstborn Son of God, and the Everlasting Father of the redeemed and the God of the whole earth who has not yet taken His power unto Himself and reigned over His purchased kingdom; but as Everlasting Father will adopt every repentant seed of Adam unto Himself, and never leave them or forsake them.

The Everlasting Father of the second human being creation kind ever lives to make intercession for His own, from His seat in the heavens, where He is sitting in the body of flesh of second Man creation and which body of flesh is the True Mercy Seat which Moses patterned his copy after.

Jer 14:9 Why shouldest thou be as a man astonied, as a mighty man that cannot save? yet thou, O LORD, art in the midst of us, and we are called by thy name; leave us not.

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Isa 43:5-7 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.


Dan 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.



Phanuel/penuel/Penial means Angel of the Face, from the Hebrew for "face", and Penuel was the angel who invoked His name [the hidden secret name in Enoch], "Israel" [Isaiah 49], over Jacob, and who was the pre-incarnate LORD Jesus Christ, and who was and is YHWH [in the Person of God the Word], as Hosea 12:3-5 states.


He invoked His name over Jacob and therefore, Israel [Jacob's seed] are "My people, called by My name".
Quote:
Sirach 36:
13 Gather together all the tribes of Jacob: that they may know that there is no God besides thee, and may declare thy great works: and thou shalt inherit them as from the beginning. 14 Have mercy on thy people, upon whom thy name is invoked: and upon Israel, whom thou hast raised up to be thy firstborn.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked [him], and said, Tell [me], I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore [is] it [that] thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel/פנואל Pĕnuw'el: for I have seen God face/פנים paniym to face/פנים paniym , and my life is preserved. Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel/פנואל Pĕnuw'elthe sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

Penuel was the angel who not only wrestled with Jacob, but was with Israel coming out of Egypt.
Exd 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

Exd 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

The Head of Days in Enoch is One who is come and who was "hidden/secret" "with" the Head of Days, in Enoch [whom only Enoch saw with God, and who was God], and now revealed in flesh: slain, risen, ascended and glorified. He is the same Ancient of Days in Daniel 7, and the same LORD Jesus Christ in Revelation 1.

Eze 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Dan 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.


Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [my] new name.

 

[riverrat]

Rat,
your delayed new covenant has no basis at all.

Thanks ner, now I know I am right!

 

[Interplanner]

Rom 11:27 is past tense with current meaning.
Heb 10:18 is " " "
2 Cor 2, 3 is " " "

Any questions?

 

[riverrat]

Rom 11:27 is past tense with current meaning.
Heb 10:18 is " " "
2 Cor 2, 3 is " " "

Any questions?

No questions but I got answers.
Rom 11:25-27 proves my assertion. The new covenant which is for Israel will begin after the fulness of the Gentiles be come in and after all Israel shall be saved. The events are in the future and the establishment of the earthly kingdom follows these events.
Heb 10:15-17 reference to the new covenant as shown in Rom 11:25-27 is future and is for Israel.
2 Cor 2, 3 is too broad for me to comment on. You will have to be more specific.
There is more to the new covenant than the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 69:

Jesus reigns! Anytime you have a question keep reading Matthew 28:18.

As God the Word, Jesus was the Creator of everything in heaven and earth (Colossians 1:16-18, John 1:1,3). And in the first century AD, he became a flesh and bones human being (John 1:14; 2 John 1:7), so that he could die on the Cross for our sins and rise from the dead on the 3rd day (Hebrews 2:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and become our eternally-human high priest/mediator (Hebrews 7:24-26; 1 Timothy 2:5).

After his resurrection into immortality in his fully-human flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39), Jesus the man was given ultimate spiritual authority over heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). He ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9-10), and is now in heaven ruling spiritually over everything (1 Peter 3:22, Ephesians 1:20-23, Colossians 2:10,15, Philippians 2:9).

But he won't take ultimate, de facto, physical authority over the earth until his 2nd coming, when, still as a flesh and bones human being (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14), he will descend bodily from heaven (Revelation 19:11-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) to physically reign on the earth (Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:9-21) with a rod of iron with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3-4, Micah 4:1-4, Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:6-7).

After his 1,000-year reign and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Jesus will resurrect and judge everyone who wasn't resurrected at his 2nd coming (Revelation 20:11-15). Everyone who has ever lived will have to bow down before him and admit that he is Lord of everything (Philippians 2:10-11, Acts 10:36).

*******

ebedmelech said in post 89:

Under the New Covenant there was not then, and is not now any reason to have tribes.

Note that all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

ebedmelech said in post 89:

Everyone in Christ is a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession.

Amen.

1 Peter 2:9-10 is referring to the church as Israel, for it is quoting from Exodus 19:5b-6 and Hosea 2:23, which refer to Israel.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme said in post 79:

He is the same Ancient of Days in Daniel 7, and the same LORD Jesus Christ in Revelation 1.

That's right.

Daniel 7 doesn't necessarily refer to the Ancient of days and the Son of man as being different people. For the description of the Ancient of days in Daniel 7:9 matches the description of the Son of man in Revelation 1:13-14. And the judgment of people occurring in front of the throne of the Ancient of days in Daniel 7:9-10 matches the judgment of people occurring in front of the throne of the Son of man in 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Revelation 20:11-15 (cf. John 5:22).

Also, when Daniel 7:13 says that the Son of man came "to" the Ancient of days, the original Chaldean word (ad, H5705) translated as "to" corresponds to a Hebrew word (ad, H5704) which can be translated as "when" (Psalms 71:18, Jonah 4:2). So Daniel 7:13b can refer to "when" the Ancient of days will come, which will be when the Son of man comes with the clouds of heaven (Daniel 7:13), which will be at his 2nd coming to the earth (Matthew 24:30), which will be when the Ancient of days will come to the earth immediately after the tribulation to set up the millennial aspect of his kingdom on the earth with the church (Daniel 7:21-22, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). So when Daniel 7:13b says "they brought him near before him", that can refer to angels bringing the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) before the returned Son of man/Ancient of days to be judged and given to the burning flame (Daniel 7:11b, Revelation 19:20).

The Son of man can be the Ancient of days because the Son of man is "from everlasting" (Micah 5:2c, John 8:58, John 17:5).

 

[ebedmelech]

As God the Word, Jesus was the Creator of everything in heaven and earth (Colossians 1:16-18, John 1:1,3). And in the first century AD, he became a flesh and bones human being (John 1:14; 2 John 1:7), so that he could die on the Cross for our sins and rise from the dead on the 3rd day (Hebrews 2:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and become our eternally-human high priest/mediator (Hebrews 7:24-26; 1 Timothy 2:5).

After his resurrection into immortality in his fully-human flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39), Jesus the man was given ultimate spiritual authority over heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). He ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9-10), and is now in heaven ruling spiritually over everything (1 Peter 3:22, Ephesians 1:20-23, Colossians 2:10,15, Philippians 2:9).

But he won't take ultimate, de facto, physical authority over the earth until his 2nd coming, when, still as a flesh and bones human being (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14), he will descend bodily from heaven (Revelation 19:11-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) to physically reign on the earth (Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:9-21) with a rod of iron with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3-4, Micah 4:1-4, Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:6-7).

The reign is going on right now Bible2. Several verses say so.

After his 1,000-year reign and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Jesus will resurrect and judge everyone who wasn't resurrected at his 2nd coming (Revelation 20:11-15). Everyone who has ever lived will have to bow down before him and admit that he is Lord of everything (Philippians 2:10-11, Acts 10:36).

Nope. That can't be....Jesus reigns NOW. simply read Matthew 28:18, and believe it.

Note that all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Nope. There are no tribes, there are no lost tribes, and there will be no tribes! As John hears 12,000 each from the 12 tribes they represent the "Israel of God", which is all believers.

 

[riverrat]

ebedmelech: Where does scripture define "Israel of God" as all believers?