Are we obligated to inform new believers about potentially losing their newly acquired salvation?

[bottomofsandal]

He is from what is called a hyper-dispensational (and perhaps hyper-grace) movement. These guys are far out in left field. They openly reject the application of much of the New Testament to the modern, Christian church. I visited one of these many years ago. It was all I could do to restrain myself from speaking out during the sermon. These guys are really lost, perhaps of the edge of apostasy/insanity. The sermon I heard was about how only certain sections of Paul's writings were applicable to the church age. The speaker consistently insisted that the writings of Peter, John, and James (as well as the 4 gospels) were not intended for the church. Only certain writings of Paul were relevant to the church. These guys are false teachers! Run from them. I will critique this video later (and it is not new to me).

Sounds good!

Is this akin to Easybelievism or Freegrace movement?

 

[Job8]

When do we drop the bombshell that salvation has an expiration date?

NEVER.

 

[bottomofsandal]

As I posted in post #10 of this thread:

Peter in 1 Peter 1:4 says our inheritance can never perish, spoil, or fade...kept in Heaven for us.[/QUOTE]

 

[DingDing]

Sounds good!

Is this akin to Easybelievism or Freegrace movement?

This is what I would call a hyper-dispensational movement. (Let's you and I agree to set our disagreements aside for the moment.) While you and I disagree on the meaning/application of many passages, these guys say those passages don't apply at all, no matter how you take them. If you watch this video up to about the 3 minute mark, and I suggest that you do, then you will get to the point where he says repentance is not required for salvation. That right there should set someone's alarm bells off. I have watch a few other videos from this guy, and he is from what is called the "free-grace" movement. My wife was friends with the wife of one of their pastors - nice people - but when we were asked to visit their church - Oh My God! Let me say that again, Oh My God! I could not believe the nonsense they were preaching. These guys are way out there. Nothing Peter, James, or John said is binding on the church today. Even much of what Paul says before a certain point is not for the modern church. The Book of Revelation - forget it. As well as the Book of Hebrews. And also the 4 gospels! These guys are nuts. And as for the person who posted this video and who claims to be a Nazarene... Well, she may be one of these hyper-dispensationalists trying to masquerade as a Nazarene. This is about as far from Nazarene church doctrine as you can get. And I am no longer Nazarene, but I know their basic doctrines, and this ain't it.

 

[bottomofsandal]

This is what I would call a hyper-dispensational movement. (Let's you and I agree to set our disagreements aside for the moment.) While you and I disagree on the meaning/application of many passages, these guys say those passages don't apply at all, no matter how you take them. If you watch this video up to about the 3 minute mark, and I suggest that you do, then you will get to the point where he says repentance is not required for salvation. That right there should set someone's alarm bells off. I have watch a few other videos from this guy, and he is from what is called the "free-grace" movement. My wife was friends with the wife of one of their pastors - nice people - but when we were asked to visit their church - Oh My God! Let me say that again, Oh My God! I could not believe the nonsense they were preaching. These guys are way out there. Nothing Peter, James, or John said is binding on the church today. Even much of what Paul says before a certain point is not for the modern church. The Book of Revelation - forget it. As well as the Book of Hebrews. And also the 4 gospels! These guys are nuts. And as for the person who posted this video and who claims to be a Nazarene... Well, she may be one of these hyper-dispensationalists trying to masquerade as a Nazarene. This is about as far from Nazarene church doctrine as you can get. And I am no longer Nazarene, but I know their basic doctrines, and this ain't it.

Could almost be construed as Universalism.

 

[DingDing]

Could almost be construed as Universalism.

So did you watch the first 3 minutes?

 

[EmSw]

Or, because an all knowing God agreed that you have more power than He does, more foresight than He does, when He called you to Christ, as the scripture tells us is how we find our way, and had no idea that afterward it would be your choice to cancel, revoke, ask him to lose you from that covenant.

If man isn't more powerful than God, then why can't God save them? Is God powerless to save them? Is man's power to go to hell greater than God's power to save them? If it's God's desire that all men be saved, then why is His power unable to save them?

 

[bottomofsandal]

He is from what is called a hyper-dispensational (and perhaps hyper-grace) movement. These guys are far out in left field. They openly reject the application of much of the New Testament to the modern, Christian church. I visited one of these many years ago. It was all I could do to restrain myself from speaking out during the sermon. These guys are really lost, perhaps of the edge of apostasy/insanity. The sermon I heard was about how only certain sections of Paul's writings were applicable to the church age. The speaker consistently insisted that the writings of Peter, John, and James (as well as the 4 gospels) were not intended for the church. Only certain writings of Paul were relevant to the church. These guys are false teachers! Run from them. I will critique this video later (and it is not new to me).

WOWZERS. I heard the no repentance comment.
I listened to part of Calvinism, Predestination, Assurance also.
One video is called something like Salvation doesn't save us from hell?
He clearly is misinformed about many topics. James 3:1

 

[bling]

Jesus Christ purchased us with His own blood. We belong to Him so He will keep us saved. We are the soul owner of nothing.
We are not our own....we have been purchaced just as a Jewish bride has been purchased by the man she is espoused to. The bridegroom gives his future wife a downpayment, just as we are given the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1

Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the Hebrew writer refers to the “payment” as being a literal “ransom payment” to redeem us (set us free) to go to the Father, so were we set free?

Are we not the bride now, so the Holy Spirit would not be a down payment?

We are the slaves of who we obey so do we have to first obey the master?

 

[Grafted In]

Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the Hebrew writer refers to the “payment” as being a literal “ransom payment” to redeem us (set us free) to go to the Father, so were we set free?

Are we not the bride now, so the Holy Spirit would not be a down payment?

We are the slaves of who we obey so do we have to first obey the master?

The Holy Spirit is the downpayment. We are espoused to Jesus Christ, but our marriage is in the future. I realize that being espoused is a serious thing and in order to avoid marriage one must divorce, but we will not become the perfect bride in white until we are snatched away in the rapture when we will be made perfect. It is then that we will actually marry Christ.

"To whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."—Colossians 1:27.

 

[JoeP222w]

Is this conversation immediately after baptism? When?

Baptism does not save anyone. cf. the thief on the cross.

When do we drop the bombshell that salvation has an expiration date?

False assumption. Salvation does not have an expiration date.

This gift of God that you just received can be lost, cancelled, or revoked?

You are completely wrong on this. If you can lose your salvation, that means your salvation is based on your efforts and is thus not salvation at all. Or you are saying that God is not capable of completing the work He began in you, which is completely unbiblical.

 

[bottomofsandal]

Baptism does not save anyone. cf. the thief on the cross.




False assumption. Salvation does not have an expiration date.



You are completely wrong on this. If you can lose your salvation, that means your salvation is based on your efforts and is thus not salvation at all. Or you are saying that God is not capable of completing the work He began in you, which is completely unbiblical.

This was a hypothetical that was covered in the thread, and not my pov.

This sarcastic question asked a pertinent question about proselytizing..

When is the new convert told about losing and re-capturing salvation?

 

[DingDing]

This was a hypothetical that was covered in the thread, and not my pov.

This sarcastic question asked a pertinent question about proselytizing..

When is the new convert told about losing and re-capturing salvation?

I think the convert needs to be told about how salvation works. The bottom line on salvation can be reduced to two words from Jesus' lips: "Follow Me". So "following" is the condition for salvation, which implies that the one who does not follow (or no longer follows) is not saved (or no longer saved). The many warnings throughout scripture are there for a purpose; by not preaching them we circumvent the purpose.

 

[JoeP222w]

This was a hypothetical that was covered in the thread, and not my pov.

This sarcastic question asked a pertinent question about proselytizing..

When is the new convert told about losing and re-capturing salvation?

If the teaching is in accordance with the Bible, the new convert is hopefully taught as the Bible teaches, that you do not earn your salvation, thus you cannot lose it, and since you cannot lose it, you can't re-capture it. God is the one who saves, not the person.

 

[bling]

If the teaching is in accordance with the Bible, the new convert is hopefully taught as the Bible teaches, that you do not earn your salvation, thus you cannot lose it, and since you cannot lose it, you can't re-capture it. God is the one who saves, not the person.

Esau did not "earn his birthright" and it could not be taken back, stolen, or lost, but it could be given away and he gave it away for virtually nothing.

 

[DingDing]

Esau did not "earn his birthright" and it could not be taken back, stolen, or lost, but it could be given away and he gave it away for virtually nothing.

Now just wait a minute... Are you saying that bowl of stew was bad?

 

[JoeP222w]

Esau did not "earn his birthright" and it could not be taken back, stolen, or lost, but it could be given away and he gave it away for virtually nothing.

Esau had no say in the order of birth, so I would say that Esau did not truly have any right to sell his birthright.

 

[sdowney717]

Esau sells his birthright and loses the blessing, and all goes to Jacob and this according to the predetermination of God before they were born.
Same thing today for all people, is what is predestined to occur. God did not make Esau sin, or make him a profane fornicator.
Esau just was by his nature those things, and that this was predetermined so that God's calling according to His electing people would remain true.
Frankly it is written down for us as an example that the calling of God overrides the natural perceived order of things as man thinks they are done. God is in charge of the affairs of all creation and He demonstrates His power in the earth over the creation.

 

[RDKirk]

Yeah, the new child of God may perceive himself an Arminian...

but The Holy Spirit, after time in The Word teaches the man otherwise.

Is this what you mean by advancing and obtaining wisdom from above?

Moving from an Arminian position to a non-Arminian position. Makes sense.

So your real intent of this thread is to pose yet another unresolvable Calvinist/Arminianist debate.

 

[EmSw]

Esau sells his birthright and loses the blessing, and all goes to Jacob and this according to the predetermination of God before they were born.
Same thing today for all people, is what is predestined to occur. God did not make Esau sin, or make him a profane fornicator.
Esau just was by his nature those things, and that this was predetermined so that God's calling according to His electing people would remain true.
Frankly it is written down for us as an example that the calling of God overrides the natural perceived order of things as man thinks they are done. God is in charge of the affairs of all creation and He demonstrates His power in the earth over the creation.

Frankly, what is written down is not what you say. Zechariah tells us how God determines how he deals with us. And it's not according to predestination.

Zechariah 1:6
Yet surely My words and My statutes, Which I commanded My servants the prophets, did they not overtake your fathers? “So they returned and said: ‘Just as the Lord of hosts determined to do to us, according to our ways and according to our deeds, So He has dealt with us.’

Unbelievable that anyone would make up things like 'pre-determined'. It wasn't when Esau was in the womb, that God determined what to do with him. It was while Esau was living, and according to his ways and deeds. This is how God deals with people. Let's stick with the truth of the Bible, and some man-made whim.