Are liberal Catholics really Catholics

[katerinah1947]

God definitely has a problem with that specific sin. It is a sign of rebellion as you have changed God's image of who you are.

And you may think you are saved, but you are not. Because if you were, then you would have been completely against what you have done.

True believers admit that they have done wrong, confess their sins, and ask for forgiveness, which you have not done.

God has indeed approached you, but you have rejected Him.

Hi,

I will depart now.

My sincerest apologies to the Original Poster.

Yes, I am totally Transgendered. That position of mine has never been hidden.

Obviously that position, is causing a problem here.

I never thought anyone would not listen to what God has done to and for me, as a transgendered female.

Good-Bye for now, so that you can have your thread back.

LOVE,

...Curtis/ Mary Katerina., .... .

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

I will depart now.

My sincerest apologies to the Original Poster.

Yes, I am totally Transgendered. That position of mine has never been hidden.

Obviously that position, is causing a problem here.

I never thought anyone would not listen to what God has done to and for me, as a transgendered female.

Good-Bye for now, so that you can have your thread back.

LOVE,

...Curtis/ Mary Katerina., .... .

I am sorry that you feel you have to leave. I would have like to help you. I will say again that I have nothing against you personally. I hope you will be able to get your relationship with God sorted out.

God bless you.

 

[katerinah1947]

I am sorry that you feel you have to leave. I would have like to help you. I will say again that I have nothing against you personally. I hope you will be able to get your relationship with God sorted out.

God bless you.

Hi,

Just for the heck of it, I took a look. I was hoping you would drop this issue.

In the fall of 2007, in an approved by the church private revelation, I said YES!, to God The Father's marriage proposal.

I am married to God The Father. How do you think that you can help me out with that?

I have been married to Him, since the fall of 2007. That is enough time, to sort out my relationship with Him.

Me spelling this out for you is unnecessary, if you would just not throw away everything but your opinions, as this has all been said here already.

You are the one on this issue that is in error, not God, nor me.

Are you saying that I had no right to say yes or no to a marriage proposal?

Are you saying God had no right to ask me?

He had the question put to me, as a female, just what all the scientists are saying is true, and you are telling God, that He is wrong about me.

Do you fear nothing, not even God?

If God is for me, who can be against me? You?

God made all there is. He made you. He made me. For, you to say God is or was wrong, is startling, but says much about you, not God, and not me.

It says you did not choose to fear The Lord. That is in Proverbs 2, I think.

Since all those who have looked at this issue, two Psychologists, two Psychiatrists and a Spiritual Director with an affirmed test completed by God, none of which cares about anything but what is true or not, your implied protestations that you are to be listened to, and not them, is illogical.

I will not lean on my own understandings but, God's.

At this point, it is you who need help on this, and not me.

Please, ignoring what is said, is not logical.


LOVE,

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

Just for the heck of it, I took a look. I was hoping you would drop this issue.

In the fall of 2007, in an approved by the church private revelation, I said YES!, to God The Father's marriage proposal.

I am married to God The Father. How do you think that you can help me out with that?

I have been married to Him, since the fall of 2007. That is enough time, to sort out my relationship with Him.

Me spelling this out for you is unnecessary, if you would just not throw away everything but your opinions, as this has all been said here already.

You are the one on this issue that is in error, not God, nor me.

Are you saying that I had no right to say yes or no to a marriage proposal?

Are you saying God had no right to ask me?

He had the question put to me, as a female, just what all the scientists are saying is true, and you are telling God, that He is wrong about me.

Do you fear nothing, not even God?

If God is for me, who can be against me? You?

God made all there is. He made you. He made me. For, you to say God is or was wrong, is startling, but says much about you, not God, and not me.

It says you did not choose to fear The Lord. That is in Proverbs 2, I think.

Since all those who have looked at this issue, two Psychologists, two Psychiatrists and a Spiritual Director with an affirmed test completed by God, none of which cares about anything but what is true or not, your implied protestations that you are to be listened to, and not them, is illogical.

I will not lean on my own understandings but, God's.

At this point, it is you who need help on this, and not me.

Please, ignoring what is said, is not logical.


LOVE,

You are going about this all the wrong way. Being a child of God isn't simply something done in words. You have to act like one too, and obey his word to the fullest of your ability. God made you to be a man, yet you chose to reject that and become a woman. This is not the way God intended you to be.

How could I be the one against God when I am trying to help you be a genuine believer? That seriously makes no sense.

Also, do you natively speak English or are you from another language, because most of the time, you don't make sense.

 

[FaeryChild]

Before this thread degenerates any further, I would like to make an important point:

The conflict between being Catholic and LGBT does not reside itself in being "LGBT". Rather the conflict resides in being a practicing Catholic while also taking part in sexual acts that are forbidden according to Scripture, reason, natural law, the Catechism and the historical Church teachings. When a person finds themselves both to be LGBT and Catholic, the best way to resolve the conflict is by practicing chastity. When one essentially claims celibacy by being married to God, they are, in essence playing it safe.

A person cannot be guilty of sexual immorality if they are not even being sexual in the first place! (see Matt 19)

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

Just for the heck of it, I took a look. I was hoping you would drop this issue.

In the fall of 2007, in an approved by the church private revelation, I said YES!, to God The Father's marriage proposal.

I am married to God The Father. How do you think that you can help me out with that?

I have been married to Him, since the fall of 2007. That is enough time, to sort out my relationship with Him.

Me spelling this out for you is unnecessary, if you would just not throw away everything but your opinions, as this has all been said here already.

You are the one on this issue that is in error, not God, nor me.

Are you saying that I had no right to say yes or no to a marriage proposal?

Are you saying God had no right to ask me?

He had the question put to me, as a female, just what all the scientists are saying is true, and you are telling God, that He is wrong about me.

Do you fear nothing, not even God?

If God is for me, who can be against me? You?

God made all there is. He made you. He made me. For, you to say God is or was wrong, is startling, but says much about you, not God, and not me.

It says you did not choose to fear The Lord. That is in Proverbs 2, I think.

Since all those who have looked at this issue, two Psychologists, two Psychiatrists and a Spiritual Director with an affirmed test completed by God, none of which cares about anything but what is true or not, your implied protestations that you are to be listened to, and not them, is illogical.

I will not lean on my own understandings but, God's.

At this point, it is you who need help on this, and not me.

Please, ignoring what is said, is not logical.


LOVE,

Also, what denomination sees the Christian faith as a literal marriage? Honestly, I've never heard of that.

 

[DTate98]

Before this thread degenerates any further, I would like to make an important point:

The conflict between being Catholic and LGBT does not reside itself in being "LGBT". Rather the conflict resides in being a practicing Catholic while also taking part in sexual acts that are forbidden according to Scripture, reason, natural law, the Catechism and the historical Church teachings. When a person finds themselves both to be LGBT and Catholic, the best way to resolve the conflict is by practicing chastity. When one essentially claims celibacy by being married to God, they are, in essence playing it safe.

A person cannot be guilty of sexual immorality if they are not even being sexual in the first place! (see Matt 19)

Well you can look upon someone with lust for one second and be guilty of sexual immorality, so I think no one can live a life without committing some form of sexual immorality.

 

[katerinah1947]

Also, what denomination sees the Christian faith as a literal marriage? Honestly, I've never heard of that.

Hi,

One more time. God approves of me.

LOVE,

 

[FaeryChild]

All of us are sinners and each of us should consider ourselves to be the chief of all sinners!
Ok, lust can lead down a bad road, regardless of if it is acted on. When we repent of any sin, we must intend to do our best to avoid the near occasion of sin. We cannot always control what we are exposed to or who we meet or what song we hear... however...
via Matt 19, some people should not even be trying to be married and should accept celibacy. Marriage is ordained to be a union between a man and a woman. On that, I'm sure we agree. Some people cannot realistically fit into that pattern, for a variety of reasons... things people were born with, things that have happened in life, choices they make, choices other make, etc. All of us are tempted with our own versions of evil & none are perfect, but all must strive to be holy.
Thus, some should not be married and should instead be consecrated to God.

But already here, we are saying why CF would rather people not discuss LGBT issues. Even when two people agree that certain activities are "off limits" they can still, nonetheless disagree as to why someone is LGBT and what is / is not an acceptable way for one to be LGBT and in the Church. In congregational settings, however, we are allowed to articulate the individual policies and disciplines given by the various churches. So, for the sake of this thread, I remind everyone of what the Catechism actually says:

"Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357)
and
"[homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.
"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359).

The official statements found in other churches are very different, at times even within a denomination like Lutheranism (compare the LCMS with the ELCA!).
So basically, if I understand CF rules correctly, congregational areas are in a sense "ruled" by their own discipline.

My understanding is that if/when a person chooses celibacy, they have the option of consecrating themselves to God, which is, in a sense, a form of marriage. So, in the sense that one conforms to the above statements, one can simultaneously be LGBT and a practicing Catholic.

 

[DTate98]

All of us are sinners and each of us should consider ourselves to be the chief of all sinners!
Ok, lust can lead down a bad road, regardless of if it is acted on. When we repent of any sin, we must intend to do our best to avoid the near occasion of sin. We cannot always control what we are exposed to or who we meet or what song we hear... however...
via Matt 19, some people should not even be trying to be married and should accept celibacy. Marriage is ordained to be a union between a man and a woman. On that, I'm sure we agree. Some people cannot realistically fit into that pattern, for a variety of reasons... things people were born with, things that have happened in life, choices they make, choices other make, etc. All of us are tempted with our own versions of evil & none are perfect, but all must strive to be holy.
Thus, some should not be married and should instead be consecrated to God.

But already here, we are saying why CF would rather people not discuss LGBT issues. Even when two people agree that certain activities are "off limits" they can still, nonetheless disagree as to why someone is LGBT and what is / is not an acceptable way for one to be LGBT and in the Church. In congregational settings, however, we are allowed to articulate the individual policies and disciplines given by the various churches. So, for the sake of this thread, I remind everyone of what the Catechism actually says:

"Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357)
and
"[homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.
"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359).

The official statements found in other churches are very different, at times even within a denomination like Lutheranism (compare the LCMS with the ELCA!).
So basically, if I understand CF rules correctly, congregational areas are in a sense "ruled" by their own discipline.

My understanding is that if/when a person chooses celibacy, they have the option of consecrating themselves to God, which is, in a sense, a form of marriage. So, in the sense that one conforms to the above statements, one can simultaneously be LGBT and a practicing Catholic.

Just a word of advice. If you want to reply to someone, there's a small reply button at the lower right corner of each post.

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

One more time. God approves of me.

LOVE,

FaeryChild was trying to reply to you but didn't use the reply button

Here's what was said

All of us are sinners and each of us should consider ourselves to be the chief of all sinners!
Ok, lust can lead down a bad road, regardless of if it is acted on. When we repent of any sin, we must intend to do our best to avoid the near occasion of sin. We cannot always control what we are exposed to or who we meet or what song we hear... however...
via Matt 19, some people should not even be trying to be married and should accept celibacy. Marriage is ordained to be a union between a man and a woman. On that, I'm sure we agree. Some people cannot realistically fit into that pattern, for a variety of reasons... things people were born with, things that have happened in life, choices they make, choices other make, etc. All of us are tempted with our own versions of evil & none are perfect, but all must strive to be holy.
Thus, some should not be married and should instead be consecrated to God.

But already here, we are saying why CF would rather people not discuss LGBT issues. Even when two people agree that certain activities are "off limits" they can still, nonetheless disagree as to why someone is LGBT and what is / is not an acceptable way for one to be LGBT and in the Church. In congregational settings, however, we are allowed to articulate the individual policies and disciplines given by the various churches. So, for the sake of this thread, I remind everyone of what the Catechism actually says:

"Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357)
and
"[homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.
"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359).

The official statements found in other churches are very different, at times even within a denomination like Lutheranism (compare the LCMS with the ELCA!).
So basically, if I understand CF rules correctly, congregational areas are in a sense "ruled" by their own discipline.

My understanding is that if/when a person chooses celibacy, they have the option of consecrating themselves to God, which is, in a sense, a form of marriage. So, in the sense that one conforms to the above statements, one can simultaneously be LGBT and a practicing Catholic.

 

[katerinah1947]

You are going about this all the wrong way. Being a child of God isn't simply something done in words. You have to act like one too, and obey his word to the fullest of your ability. God made you to be a man, yet you chose to reject that and become a woman. This is not the way God intended you to be.

How could I be the one against God when I am trying to help you be a genuine believer? That seriously makes no sense.

Also, do you natively speak English or are you from another language, because most of the time, you don't make sense.

Hi,

You are using your views, and not God's.

Who historically, beloved in Jesus when He came?

They kicked a man out of his church, The Temple, for being healed by Jesus of blindness.

They were so infuriated by the Name of Jesus back then. Jesus, though paid him a one on one visit in his house, after he was thrown out of his church.

Was Jesus wrong, as you are implying?

Was Jesus wrong for going to that man, who suffered at the hands of Jesus, in being thrown out of his only church, possibly for life?

Was He wrong for saying things to him, in a personal one on one visit with that man, Possibly to replace what the actions of Jesus had taken away from him?

LOVE,

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

One more time. God approves of me.

LOVE,

I'm going to give my own thoughts on this.

God does not approve of you being a transgender as this is a sin, and He cannot approve of sin because it is something he hates.

 

[FaeryChild]

yes, but I was actually replying to you.
when someone has become "married to God" and in this sense chosen celibacy, whether or not they are LGBT is an irrelevant point. It has been made irrelevant due to the decision to marry God instead of another person.

As Pope Francis has said,
"When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency is not the problem … they’re our brothers."

I'm saying Katerinah accepts the Lord, has good will and is living in accord with the CCC.

 

[FaeryChild]

"being transgender" itself is not the problem... now if that were used as an excuse to take part in abhorrent sexual activities, well then, that would become a problem

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

You are using your views, and not God's.

Who historically, beloved in Jesus when He came?

They kicked a man out of his church, The Temple, for being healed by Jesus of blindness.

They were so infuriated by the Name of Jesus back then. Jesus, though paid him a one on one visit in his house, after he was thrown out of his church.

Was Jesus wrong, as you are implying?

Was Jesus wrong for going to that man, who suffered at the hands of Jesus, in being thrown out of his only church, possibly for life?

Was He wrong for saying things to him, in a personal one on one visit with that man, Possibly to replace what the actions of Jesus had taken away from him?

LOVE,

I am facepalming so hard right now you don't even know.

Jesus did not go to the blind man and just leave him that way.

He healed him of his blindness.

Here you are saying that God accepts you when you don't accept Him, at least not for the way He is.

You think that God allows for homosexuality, bisexuality, transgenderism, well He doesn't.

He has said this in the Bible and you need to straigten yourself out before you can say you are truly one of God's children.

 

[Cute Tink]

"being transgender" itself is not the problem... now if that were used as an excuse to take part in abhorrent sexual activities, well then, that would become a problem

Nothing about being transgender has anything to do with having sex. If someone is engaging in "abhorrent sexual activities", then they are doing so regardless of being transgender.

 

[DTate98]

"being transgender" itself is not the problem... now if that were used as an excuse to take part in abhorrent sexual activities, well then, that would become a problem

Take a look at this. I think God still has a problem with transgenderism by itself.

https://www.probe.org/what-is-a-biblical-view-of-transgendered-people-and-hermaphrodites/

 

[DTate98]

yes, but I was actually replying to you.
when someone has become "married to God" and in this sense chosen celibacy, whether or not they are LGBT is an irrelevant point. It has been made irrelevant due to the decision to marry God instead of another person.

As Pope Francis has said,
"When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency is not the problem … they’re our brothers."

I'm saying Katerinah accepts the Lord, has good will and is living in accord with the CCC.

Ah Pope Francis.
I don't take anything he says seriously, so could you please refer to the Bible from now on?

Also, you can't be homosexual and Christian at the same time. It's impossible. How could you live in sin, yet say you are a follower of God? It wouldn't make sense. If someone wants to be a follower of God, they need to follow Him completely, not just the way they want to.

 

[FaeryChild]

Saying that transgender and gay having nothing to do with each other - well, that makes for good theory. However, it turns into bad practice. Humans, by our very nature, we tend to be sexual. We tend to desire intimacy and yes, sex. Usually men and women like each other and that is when it turns out the right way. When men like men and women like women, that's gay and we ask them not to do "abhorrent sexual activities".
Now when you are talking about a transgender person, you are talking about someone who most likely is attracted to somebody but is also most likely only able to express that in a gay way. This is where we get into problems. We can't say a man has to refrain from bedding another man unless that other man happens to think of himself as a she. That can't make the act okay when it was the act in the first place that was wrong. But here is the thing, whether or not a trans person is attracted to men, women or other transgenders... none of that, absolutely NONE of that can approximate the Sacrament of Marriage between a man and a woman!!! So, everything the CCC says about "gay sex" applies to "trans sex" and they are in the same boat.

Of course a person can be "trans" and avoid sexual immorality, but only if that means they are married to none except for God. If you mean your statement to be within the context of chastity, it could be correct.