Are liberal Catholics really Catholics

[Martinius]

Excuse me? How was anything I said derogatory? I didn't use any foul language and did not insult any particular person. I get it. I'm not supposed to oppose a denomination on a forum dedicated to it, but is derogatory really the right word here?

Derogatory seems to fit quite well. And you insulted plenty of people, such as those you were responding to, and even people like me, who were only looking in at the time.

I did a little checking on a number of threads in the Baptist forum and wonder of wonders, I could not find any Catholics posting there, much less attacking the beliefs of Baptists. I thought persecution of Catholicism had pretty much died out decades ago, but it is still showing up, even in the younger generation. So sad.

You know, there are forums for teenagers and young adults that you could participate in. See how far your religious prejudices take you on those.

And here I am, conversing with the guy I said we shouldn't converse with. I'll stop now.

 

[DTate98]

I just checked his posts. Something like 38 of the last 40 posts by this Baptist are on Catholic threads. He is obviously just here to bash Catholicism and Catholics. I don't mind a non-Catholic coming in with a question or comment, as long as it is in fellowship. But this guy's sole purpose is to attack the Catholic faith.

The only good result is that he has livened up this forum somewhat. But enough is enough.

I actually came on here because I had genuine problems with myself and I needed help on it. Then I saw a Catholic member talking about how someone's theology was wrong and I pointed out his was wrong as well and then we got I to a debate across a few different threads on the biblical correctness of Mary being a mediator. We ended up calling a cease fire and that ended it.

And yeah, now that I think about it, I actually did come on this section to start a debate. I guess I wanted to continue that debate with someone else? Sorry about that. I kinda enjoyed being in a debate, and I felt it helped me strengthen my faith in God. If there's a section for Computer Techies, I'll be there. If not, then I'll be floating around checking out topics that interest me.

Bye everyone!

 

[DTate98]

Derogatory seems to fit quite well. And you insulted plenty of people, such as those you were responding to, and even people like me, who were only looking in at the time.

I did a little checking on a number of threads in the Baptist forum and wonder of wonders, I could not find any Catholics posting there, much less attacking the beliefs of Baptists. I thought persecution of Catholicism had pretty much died out decades ago, but it is still showing up, even in the younger generation. So sad.

You know, there are forums for teenagers and young adults that you could participate in. See how far your religious prejudices take you on those.

And here I am, conversing with the guy I said we shouldn't converse with. I'll stop now.

Okay, I'm not trying to insult anyone. Please quote me where you figured I was insulting someone.

 

[FaeryChild]

Well, to be fair, you kinda insulted the Pope:

"Ah Pope Francis.
I don't take anything he says seriously, so could you please refer to the Bible from now on?"

FWIW, I would never go to a Baptist discussion and begin inserting Pope quotes into their conversation. However, when posting in a Catholic area, I'm confused as to why I should not use quotes from the Pope.

In terms of opposing Catholicism, and did clearly state that, to you, it is not possible to be Catholic and follow the Word of God. So that seems to be your opinion and it is well shared by many on CF, though they tend to discuss it in their own sections. If you want to have a serious dialogue about some points which you feel are unBiblical about Catholicism, I am all for starting separate threads about those and having an honest & fair discussion.

 

[katerinah1947]

have you ever come across a book called "Why God doesn't hate you" by Tia Michelle Pesando? She is Roman Catholic and a consecrated virgin and I think you would be inspired by her story.
No matter what happens, remember that you have recourse to the Virgin Mother of God.

Hi,

Consecrated Virgin. I love this girl. I will look up her book. Than you.

Now, normally I use Faustina. Some of her festoon ship with Jesus, is my relationship with The Father.

What did she have, other than God Himself, at the later stages of her spiritual journey, for all of us.

God gave us much through her. The whole idea that through God's mercy, we could not only be okay with Jesus, but God The Father even said Yes, that is so. Using what Jesus told Faustina, we can all be acceptable to God, through mercy.

You have made my life easier twice tonight. I forgot to tell you the first time you did that for me.

LOVE,

 

[Martinius]

Okay, I'm not trying to insult anyone. Please quote me where you figured I was insulting someone.

Oh, let's see. You insulted the Pope, and therefore all Catholics. You told posters their beliefs were wrong, and that they had rejected God and that God did not "approve" of them, as if you are the resident expert on the mind of God.

You admit that you came here to "start a debate". Those who want a valid debate or discussion will ask a question or post an article or quote and then dialogue on it. You came right out in attack mode, derailing what was a decent thread. If you really want to rationally discuss something without mindless invective, post a question here. Start a conversation, and keep it civil. Then you would be welcome. But always know which forum you are on, and the rules and expectations that apply.

If you want to discuss this further, send me a PM. Let's not take up everyone else's time with this, or get further off topic.

That's all from me, folks. Good night and God bless.

 

[DTate98]

Well, to be fair, you kinda insulted the Pope:

"Ah Pope Francis.
I don't take anything he says seriously, so could you please refer to the Bible from now on?"

FWIW, I would never go to a Baptist discussion and begin inserting Pope quotes into their conversation. However, when posting in a Catholic area, I'm confused as to why I should not use quotes from the Pope.

In terms of opposing Catholicism, and did clearly state that, to you, it is not possible to be Catholic and follow the Word of God. So that seems to be your opinion and it is well shared by many on CF, though they tend to discuss it in their own sections. If you want to have a serious dialogue about some points which you feel are unBiblical about Catholicism, I am all for starting separate threads about those and having an honest & fair discussion.

It is possible to see that as an insult, but I just don't trust anything he says about theology. If you would like to start a thread elsewhere and continue this conversation there, please send me a link by posting it on my profile page.

Have a good night.

 

[DTate98]

Oh, let's see. You insulted the Pope, and therefore all Catholics. You told posters their beliefs were wrong, and that they had rejected God and that God did not "approve" of them, as if you are the resident expert on the mind of God.

You admit that you came here to "start a debate". Those who want a valid debate or discussion will ask a question or post an article or quote and then dialogue on it. You came right out in attack mode, derailing what was a decent thread. If you really want to rationally discuss something without mindless invective, post a question here. Start a conversation, and keep it civil. Then you would be welcome. But always know which forum you are on, and the rules and expectations that apply.

That's all from me, folks. Good night and God bless.

Okay, I admit I was wrong on that and I'm sorry. I stated my opinion in a negative way and it turned the thread sour.

I apologize for everything, and I don't think I'll be coming back to this section because I clearly don't belong here.

Have a good night.

 

[katerinah1947]

Pope Francis has declared a Holy Year of Mercy, and it is clear that he is broadening the view of the Church regarding mercy, inclusion and acceptance. We supposedly believe that we are all God's children, yet we have, throughout history, been inclined to dismiss or disinherit from God's kingdom various categories of people. And we have the example of Jesus, who shocked the established church of his time by his inclusiveness. Yet we seem to ignore the Gospel and fundamental beliefs about God and humanity way too often. This has puzzled me for decades.

Hi,

I am told that he was hurt mightily by the Good Old Boy network in Argentina way before becoming The Pope.

Speculators were using that I think,,,, to try and figure out logically why he is so, accurate emotionally.

Anyway, that is not what I wanted to say. I see into your words. I see you.

Thank-you for wishing that I was allowed seamlessly back into the church.

But know this, just like God would normally do, I have been given extraordinary kindnesses and attention by God, because of what the churches, all of them, are doing to me.

That's why I knew about the blind man, who did not know the face of Jesus, but lost his church anyway by saying, "Why? Do you want to follow Him too?"

Even The Anglicans object to me. They say my contacts with God are bad.

Your God on the forums here one day, brought in a heavy duty Anglican, to tell the others that they were wrong, when I was being beat up for having mystical experiences with God.

I then mentioned to him about centering prayer, that scares me. I said, and I am still afraid of it today for this reason, that it reminded me too much of that Indian meditation for their many gods.

The only time, at a Catholic function, that I was asked to participate, there I saw my relationship with God The Father, just the way it is, and almost never wanted to come out of that state, but it seemed wrong somehow.

He assured me that it was not wrong, only I need proof, as I thought that form of meditation might be illegal Biblically.

Never have I ever done that again, but I am always pleased when God Pops in and bails me out, like three times here, tonight.

LOVE,

 

[FaeryChild]

Please feel free to start any discussion / thread you want here. I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome, too many forums and sub forums do that just fine. However, as others have pointed out, if you ask Catholics a question you will probably get a Catholic answer. People here would be more than willing to explain Mary's role in salvation, purgatory, etc. But please only ask if you want to have a dialogue about such things. There are sections here for formal debate, if two really want to have at it, there is a way to do that and moderate it. Likewise, if what you really want is a place to bash Catholics & have everyone agree - there are places here that do that too.

 

[DTate98]

Please feel free to start any discussion / thread you want here. I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome, too many forums and sub forums do that just fine. However, as others have pointed out, if you ask Catholics a question you will probably get a Catholic answer. People here would be more than willing to explain Mary's role in salvation, purgatory, etc. But please only ask if you want to have a dialogue about such things. There are sections here for formal debate, if two really want to have at it, there is a way to do that and moderate it. Likewise, if what you really want is a place to bash Catholics & have everyone agree - there are places here that do that too.

Well considering I would have different beliefs compared to Catholics, talking about the role of Mary would easily turn into an argument in my case. Also, I took a look at the Formal Debate section. It's a little more "formal" than what I'm used to.

I'm not trying to start another conversation about Catholicism, as it would likely get me banned, but here's the reason why I was going against Catholicism so much on this forum. In my years of being part of the Christian community, I've been told that all we need to know is in the Bible. Any questions we had could be held off until we could ask God face to face. I was also told that taking away or adding to the Bible was wrong, because Eve added to God's word before she ate from the forbidden tree. So when I hear how Catholics believe that Mary was perfect and perpetually virgin and Holy Mother and what not, I see it as adding to the word of God as I had never seen any of that explicitly stated in the Bible, and that makes me feel like I need to correct it. I think it's either a problem I have or something necessary to being a follower of God, because we're told to spread truth. When I first hopped on this thread and said that Catholics and Liberals we're unbiblical people, that was my genuine belief, because I thought Catholics added and took away from God's word, and that Liberals are always in rebellion to God's command. And whenever someone told me otherwise, I would always refer to scripture, because that's the right thing to do in that situation. So if I was right, the Bible would support me, and if I was wrong, then the Bible would tell me so. I might have crossed the line when I turned this thread sour, but at the start, I had good intentions, but it just ended up being offensive.

Again, I apologize for not following the rules. I'll start another thread so that this one can continue with the subject brought up by the OP.

 

[FaeryChild]

I get it. I grew up as a Protestant Fundamentalist in a vehemently anti-Catholic environment. While other kids were reading comics, I was reading Jack Chick tracts. I decided I wanted to go to seminary and learn things for myself... Church history, the Protestant reformation, theology, etc. etc. Over my studies, something bothered me, everyone seemed to routinely gloss over events from about 70 AD to about 325 AD. The New Testament was written... and then... (???)...and then Constantine started the Catholic Church and then came the dark era of Romanism. And everyone lived in darkness until the Reformation. And, at that point, in the 1500's, the differing strands come about and we have to choose... structure, theology, Calvinist or not, authoritative or not, liberal or conservative, etc. etc. all go back in some form to the Reformation. Some 44,000 denominations and how was I to know which one was best? For years, I accepted a priori that Romanism was evil and that the real story of Christianity began with Luther. I went to both an Evangelical Bible School and also a Mainline Liberal Seminary. Looking back, they agreed on almost nothing - except for the fact that their methodologies were amazingly similar: take the NT, skip over the first few centuries, cram Catholic history into one session and highlight as many negatives as possible, and then show where you think Luther agreed with you. Neither of them seemed to know much about the "missing years" nor did they seem to care.

So, I took it upon myself to do my own study. This led to 3 1/2 years of learning koine Greek, the language the New Testament was written in, the language spoken by the first followers. The more I researched that very first time period, the more I noticed how thoroughly Catholic it was. And then, what really hit me was the fact that the communities which produced the New Testament and the communities which first followed the New Testament understood it in a very Catholic way. Years of protestant conditioning teach us to read certain passages in the NT in a non-Catholic way - but imagine the shock I had when I discovered that the original community understood them in a Catholic way. In fact, the Greek of Acts 9:31 is the first time the phrase "kata holos" was used as an adjective for the Church. From kata holos, we get Catholic.

We are not theoretically in disagreement over importance of Scripture and that it is God's word. In practice, we disagree with how things are interpreted. Eventually, I was faced with cognitive dissonance. Who has the authority to interpret Scripture for us? Well, whatever it means it must mean what it originally meant. If we cannot trust the earliest Christians, who can we trust?

 

[katerinah1947]

Well considering I would have different beliefs compared to Catholics, talking about the role of Mary would easily turn into an argument in my case. Also, I took a look at the Formal Debate section. It's a little more "formal" than what I'm used to.

I'm not trying to start another conversation about Catholicism, as it would likely get me banned, but here's the reason why I was going against Catholicism so much on this forum. In my years of being part of the Christian community, I've been told that all we need to know is in the Bible. Any questions we had could be held off until we could ask God face to face. I was also told that taking away or adding to the Bible was wrong, because Eve added to God's word before she ate from the forbidden tree. So when I hear how Catholics believe that Mary was perfect and perpetually virgin and Holy Mother and what not, I see it as adding to the word of God as I had never seen any of that explicitly stated in the Bible, and that makes me feel like I need to correct it. I think it's either a problem I have or something necessary to being a follower of God, because we're told to spread truth. When I first hopped on this thread and said that Catholics and Liberals we're unbiblical people, that was my genuine belief, because I thought Catholics added and took away from God's word, and that Liberals are always in rebellion to God's command. And whenever someone told me otherwise, I would always refer to scripture, because that's the right thing to do in that situation. So if I was right, the Bible would support me, and if I was wrong, then the Bible would tell me so. I might have crossed the line when I turned this thread sour, but at the start, I had good intentions, but it just ended up being offensive.

Again, I apologize for not following the rules. I'll start another thread so that this one can continue with the subject brought up by the OP.

Hi, (Spelling edits now done)

I am Catholic. I am not a Catholic. I am Protestant also. I am not a Protestant also. I am Jewish. I am not a Jew. I am also not religious. I am religious.

God is what makes hopefully all of those statements true.

In normal language, it is that I can see and hear God, in all the people who are in all those groups above.

And, I am salt. Being salt though, my role is to increase God in others, nothing more.

Conversion, is not my job, neither teaching, rather it is being salt, LOVING The Way God Does, and therefore letting everyone enjoy God more.


I have been given much.


Only having The Bible, you yourself by now, if you are not internally mean, should already know that The Bible says that not all things are in there.

If you don't know that, then you have more to learn.

Mystically, which Is in The Bible, as things that would be true in the last days, that we are presently residing in, The Baptists were given a 35% in magnitude accuracy rating.

Generally, meaning most Baptists I encounter, their chief stumbling block, they share the same one with, JW's and the Mormons.

The only real difference that I see between them, is The Baptists do have a Bible, and the other two groups do not.

What Baptists typically share with the other two groups is hidden meanness, in my experiences with them. As discouraging as that was to learn about the JW's, it was harder to learn that about the Mormons. And it was still harder to eventually learn that about The Baptists. As a result much there is, that they don't know, nor allow.

Please stay, and not attack. Stay if you want to though, not because of appearances or because you want to set me or others straight, on "your superior knowledge of God".



Mary is real. What the church says about her is Real. So is Jesus. He is called 'my Lord' in Psalms 110:1, to entice you in knowing how much you might be able to learn by staying and listening to Catholics.

Also, to entice you. God defines love, as doing the will of the one you love, and not as an emotion. Thus when Jesus loved His Father, He LOVED, that way. He Did His Father's Will.

Not all Catholics know that. One does. More may also.

Even if you think that I am evil, and led by Satan, take then from me and other Catholics only what is of God, if I actually know more than you, THEN, cast me aside and into Hell.

Do it after you learn about God though, not before.

Many people here, will oppose my words about God, if they are not true. So does, and would, The Catholic Church, if my words are not true about God.

You are protected by both of them.

The Baptist Minister in town that runs the Inspired and In-The-Spirit Christian bookstore in town calls me prophetic.

What does that mean to you, in Baptist language?

He who knows all you do about me, says that.

LOVE,

Oh by the way:
God The Holy Spirit caused David to say: God The Father said to God The Son, sit here at my right side until....

Psalms 110:1.,

Oh,

And in Psalms 2, Jesus accepts His Inheritance from God The Father. Jesus then speaks there.

LOVE,

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

I am Catholic. I am not s Catholic. I am Protestant also. I am not a Protestant also. I am Jewish. I am not a Jew. I am also not religious. I am religious.

God is what makes hopefully all of those statements true.

In normal language, it that I can see and hear God, in all the people who are in those groups above.

And, I am salt. Being salt though, my role is to increase Gid in others, nothing more.

Conversion, is not my job, neither teaching, rather it is being salt, LOVING The Way God Does, and therefore letting everyone enjoy Gid more.

I have been given much.

Only having The Bible, you yourself by now, if you are not internally mean, should already know that The Bible says that not all things are in there.

If you don't know that, then you have more to learn.

Mystically, which Is in The Bible, as things that would be true in the last days, that we are presently residing in, The Baptists were given a 35% in magnitude accuracy rating.

Generally, meaning most Baptists I encounter, their chief stumbling block, they share the same one with, JW's and the Mormons.

The only real difference that I see between them, is The Baptists do have a Bible, and the other two groups do not.

What Baptists typically share with the other two groups is hidden meanness, in my experiences with them. As discouraging as that was to learn about the JW's, it was harder to learn that about the Mormons. And it was still harder to eventually learn that about The Baptists. As a result much there is that they don't know, nor allow.

Please stay, and not attack. Stay if you want to though, not because of appearances or because you want to set me or others straight, on "your superior knowledge of God".

Mary is real. What the church says about her is Real. So is Jesus. He is called 'my Lord' in Psalms 110:1, to entice you in knowing how much you might be able to learn by staying and listening to Catholics.

Also, to entice you. God defines love, as doing the will of the one you love, and not as an emotion. Thus when Jesus loved His Father, He LOVED, that way. He Did His Father's Will.

Not all Catholics know that. One does. More may also.

Even if you think that I am evil, and led by Satan, take then from me and other Catholics only what is of God, if I actually know more than you, THEN, cast me aside and into Hell.

Di it after you learn about God though, not before.

Many people here, will oppose my words about God, if they are not true. So does, and would, The Catholic Church, if my words are not true about God.

You are protected by both of them.

The Baptist Minister in town that runs the Inspied and In-The-Spirit Christian bookstore in town calls me prophetic?

What does that mean to you, in Baptist language?

He who knows all you do about me, says that.

LOVE,

Oh by the way:
God The Holy Spirit caused David to say: God The Father said to God The Son, sit here at my right side until....

Psalms 110:1.,

Oh,

And in Psalms 2, Jesus accepts His Inheritance from God The Father. Jesus then speaks there.

LOVE,

Though I'm not exactly sure that all of what you said had anything to do with what you replied to, I would suggest you repost this in the other thread that I made so that this thread can return to the original topic.

Thank you.

 

[katerinah1947]

How can /can you be a faithful Roman Catholic if you are not obedient to the moral views of the church

Hi,

Because I and other parishioners, the church says, are the church also, that the church must also listen to, then some of what are called Liberal Catholics, what they Say and do, is then moral and it is then the hierarchy that is no longer in obedience.

LOVE,

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I hope so. Otherwise, I may as well become protestant.

 

[Theatreguy18]

I hope so. Otherwise, I may as well become protestant.

Don't When a Catholic becomes Protestant the devil throws a party

 

[Theatreguy18]

Hi,

Because I and other parishioners, the church says, are the church also, that the church must also listen to, then some of what are called Liberal Catholics, what they Say and do, is then moral and it is then the hierarchy that is no longer in obedience.

LOVE,

That's not how the church's hierarchy works they have studied theology , church doctrine and scripture more then the layity they have been granted the power by Christ himself through the apostles to make decrees and forgive sin they are the successors of the apostles

 

[Padres1969]

I hope so. Otherwise, I may as well become protestant.

You're not the first person I've heard say that or something similar.

 

[katerinah1947]

That's not how the church's hierarchy works they have studied theology , church doctrine and scripture more then the layity they have been granted the power by Christ himself through the apostles to make decrees and forgive sin they are the successors of the apostles

Hi,

The church is supposed to listen to the laity also.

As such the laity are part of the decision making body of the church because they are listened to.

Have you never heard of this idea before?

I believe the item is in the Catechism somewhere, and even if not, here is a start on that idea, which also suffers internally within it, from not being explicit enough:

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2009/listening-to-the-laity

LOVE,