Are liberal Catholics really Catholics

[Theatreguy18]

How can /can you be a faithful Roman Catholic if you are not obedient to the moral views of the church

 

[smoothrose]

When Vatileaks were published in the news a few years ago, detailing sordid stories such as gay sex parties in the Vatican, monetary corruption, and so on-- those Catholics who engaged in those sins would still consider themselves Catholic in spite of the sins they commit.

I suppose a more general answer to your question about liberal Catholics is they subscribe to something called their conscience, which is also viewed as very important in Catholicism as well. People have their own views on what is or isn't moral/right... even within the Catholic Church, a Christian group of over 1 billion followers, there are opposing views on pretty much every social issue you can find; just look at the recent synod on the family to see opposing views here.

Hope this helps!

 

[mark46]

How can /can you be a faithful Roman Catholic if you are not obedient to the moral views of the church

Do you include just abortion and gay marriage?

Or do you consider ALL the moral issues that have been detailed by the pope and our council of bishops.

 

[FaeryChild]

It seems to me, if I may say... that a liberal can also be a Catholic if they agree with the Creed, Sacraments, etc. i.e. all of the beliefs that go into being Catholic. That being said, one is not free to create a liberal interpretation of being Catholic. Catholic is Catholic and if embraced by a Democrat or a punk rocker or whoever, fine. As long as Catholic remains Catholic.

 

[parousia70]

Catholic is Catholic and if embraced by a Democrat or a punk rocker or whoever, fine.

I can go along with Democrat, but Punk rocker is where I draw the line. (Except for The Ramones of course)

 

[Tallguy88]

Yes. If baptized in a Catholic Church, one is Catholic for life. Even if someone were to get themselves formally excommunicated, they would still be Catholic.

 

[parousia70]

Yes. If baptized in a Catholic Church, one is Catholic for life. Even if someone were to get themselves formally excommunicated, they would still be Catholic.

You can't quit the mob....

 

[Padres1969]

Yes. If baptized in a Catholic Church, one is Catholic for life. Even if someone were to get themselves formally excommunicated, they would still be Catholic.

Not necessarily. If they complete all 3 measures to separate themselves from the Catholic Church they wouldn't necessarily be Catholic anymore. Namely if you have the following with regard to leaving:

A) an internal act of will;
B) an external manifestation of that act; and
C) communication of the fact in writing to your local Bishop.

You can still leave the Catholic faith. Whether they'll actually acknowledge that is a question, but defection is still on the books in their canon law even after they've removed the procedure for formal acts of defection. For example joining another faith group would and notifying your former bishop of that would clearly make you non-Catholic even by their current Canon law.

 

[Tallguy88]

Not necessarily. If they complete all 3 measures to separate themselves from the Catholic Church they wouldn't necessarily be Catholic anymore. Namely if you have the following with regard to leaving:

A) an internal act of will;
B) an external manifestation of that act; and
C) communication of the fact in writing to your local Bishop.

You can still leave the Catholic faith. Whether they'll actually acknowledge that is a question, but defection is still on the books in their canon law even after they've removed the procedure for formal acts of defection. For example joining another faith group would and notifying your former bishop of that would clearly make you non-Catholic even by their current Canon law.

I've read that it is no longer canonically possible to do a formal act of defection.

 

[Padres1969]

I've read that it is no longer canonically possible to do a formal act of defection.

Yes the Actus formalis defectionis ab Ecclesia catholica was removed in 2009 by the Motu Proprio Omnium in mentem. However while the simple formal defection is no longer possible, notorious defection is still very much possible. Which can be accomplished through acts like a formal registration in another denomination, especially when coupled with support or work for that denomination and extended participation in its religious services, does constitute a formal act of defection from the Catholic Church. And such defections are still recognized in the Code of Canon law even after 2009.

So while it's no longer nearly as easy to leave, it is still possible but only through notorious formal defection rather than simply the old formal defection process which involved simply sending in your letter saying you were leaving. And of course it being less formal now means your mileage may vary depending on the diocese you're involved with or bishop's office you notify of your notorious act. And they may not necessarily take you off the rolls anyway.

 

[Martinius]

How can /can you be a faithful Roman Catholic if you are not obedient to the moral views of the church

I love these loaded questions filled with false assumptions. Apparently I didn't respond to this originally, which surprises me. So here goes.

The false assumptions are first, that it is only "liberal" Catholics who are not obedient to the moral teachings of the Church, and of course that if you are "liberal" you are automatically in conflict with the Church's moral teachings. I guess we have to ignore the moral teachings Pope Francis keeps reminding us of, that conservative Catholics want to forget or ignore. Hmmmm, I guess we could ask some "conservatives" how one can be a faithful Catholic if one is not obedient to the moral views of the Church.​

 

[gerbilwoman]

It's an interesting concept, I agree. But I think it someone who believes more in the Catholic teachings but yet is liberal.

 

[FaeryChild]

With all due respect, it seems as though Catholic dogma & teaching, at times, leans strongly to the right (i.e. contraception, abortion, etc.) and at times strongly to the left (i.e. social programs for the poor). Its as if Americans cut the left-right cake at one angle but the Vatican cuts it at a different angle. The result is that faithful Catholics end up identifying on one side or the other and end up going through a sense of mental gymnastics to reconcile why they made the right choice.

Regardless of how we may identify here, conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican, (etc.) certainly all of us have areas in which we struggle in terms of being Catholic? Certainly all of us have lots to bring to the confessional?

 

[Butterfly99]

Sorry to ask this here instead of making a thread. How's a liberal Catholic different from another Catholic? How's a liberal Catholic different from a liberal Protestant?

I was new to learning about liberal, conservative, fundamentalist when I came here. Still trying to sort it out tbh. Cause b4 I mainly thought of it as a political thing not religious.

 

[mark46]

As is all faith communities, there are those who believe that only those who agree with them are truly part of the faith, and all others are not.

 

[Julie.S]

How can /can you be a faithful Roman Catholic if you are not obedient to the moral views of the church

First of all what morals are we talking about? There are a lot and I disagree with one or two for some good reasons along with my family who believe much of the same. I do not go blindly I think before I jump so I and others do not get hurt.

 

[Theatreguy18]

First of all what morals are we talking about? There are a lot and I disagree with one or two for some good reasons along with my family who believe much of the same. I do not go blindly I think before I jump so I and others do not get hurt.

Morals you know the standard that mother church sets for us to live a faithful life and not fall into moral sin therefore not falling out of grace therefore not putting ur soul at risk

 

[Martinius]

Sorry to ask this here instead of making a thread. How's a liberal Catholic different from another Catholic? How's a liberal Catholic different from a liberal Protestant?

I was new to learning about liberal, conservative, fundamentalist when I came here. Still trying to sort it out tbh. Cause b4 I mainly thought of it as a political thing not religious.

Conservative Catholics claim they follow the moral teachings of the Church but ignore some of them, as well as the core of the Gospel. Their faith is not in Jesus, but in the institutional church. "Traditional" Catholics follow the moral teachings of the Church from the Council of Trent era to about the early 20th Century, and ignore much after that. Liberal Catholics tend to emphasize the opposite moral teachings of the ones Conservative and traditional Catholics do, particularly those the conservatives ignore.

This is why conservative and traditional Catholics are so aghast at what Pope Francis is doing and saying, since it is putting dents in the armor they have created using the teachings of centuries back which have since changed, and in some cases have been completely reversed, by the Church from the mid-twentieth century forward. It is like they went to sleep in the 16th century content that the Church basically ruled the world, and woke up in the 21st century, when everything about the Church and the world it once ruled seemed to be in chaos.

 

[FaeryChild]

So, here is my question: do liberal Catholics attend Mass? Receive Communion?

The reason I ask is that, still, "liberal Catholic" can mean more than one thing. There's a significant corridor here: are we talking about people who essentially agree with the Church's teachings (say, on the Eucharist, for example) but happen to have some left-wing or Democratic principles (social justice, racial reconciliation, concern over global warming, etc.) or are talking about people with liberal re-interpretations of Catholic teachings (say, for example, a belief in trans-signification). In the former, it makes sense to me why one would continue celebrating Mass, in the case of the latter, I think, why bother?

 

[mark46]

So, here is my question: do liberal Catholics attend Mass? Receive Communion?

The reason I ask is that, still, "liberal Catholic" can mean more than one thing. There's a significant corridor here: are we talking about people who essentially agree with the Church's teachings (say, on the Eucharist, for example) but happen to have some left-wing or Democratic principles (social justice, racial reconciliation, concern over global warming, etc.) or are talking about people with liberal re-interpretations of Catholic teachings (say, for example, a belief in trans-signification). In the former, it makes sense to me why one would continue celebrating Mass, in the case of the latter, I think, why bother?

Most posters here think that all US Democrats are heretics, and that "liberal Catholic" is being gentle.

Outside of OBOB, the term refers to folks who are likely liberal politically (focusing on social justice). They are more likely to want changes within the Church, for example regarding those divorced and remarried (or married priests). They are more likely to be of the Renewal churches favoring more modern liturgies.