Are liberal Catholics really Catholics

[Cute Tink]

Now when you are talking about a transgender person, you are talking about someone who most likely is attracted to somebody but is also most likely only able to express that in a gay way.

Not true. Sexual orientation is completely separate from gender identity. Being transgender doesn't mean you have a particular sexual orientation. There are gay, straight, bi, asexual and celibate trans people, just like for the non-trans population.

However, for anyone to automatically make any sort of attraction gay because either it is gay because of their gender identity (trans man attracted to men) or because of their birth sex (trans man attracted to women) is not backed by any scripture that has ever been quoted for me. Just seems rather a convenient way to avoid addressing anything.

 

[FaeryChild]

Ok, fair enough. My main Biblical passage is all of Matthew 19. I see in that passage a conditional acceptance of LGBT people, the condition being that they refrain from marriage (the implication being that they are celibate because sex only belongs in a marriage).
DTate98, the place we appear to disagree is not in regards to which "sexual acts" are taboo. I think we agree on that. We disagree on whether or not being LGBT in and of itself is sinful. I argue that it is not, that it is the taboo acts which make something sinful. And, by the way, they are wrong not just for gay men or trans people but even for a married man and a woman! Even in a straight marriage, there is no reason for two to abuse each other in that way.

A person is "living in sin" when they engage in said "abhorrent sexual acts". The identity of being LGBT itself, well that may be of disordered origin, but it is not, I believe, the same as a sin that someone has chosen. Its like be angry, but don't sin in your anger. Be gay, be trans, be whatever, but don't use that as an excuse for sin.

We need a Church that walks the hard fine line of not rejecting these people (as happens in some Fundamentalist churches) while also not giving a license to engage in whatever sick fetish a person wants (as happens in some Mainline churches). I'm arguing the "right answer" is a razor thin path between the two extremes most commonly chosen.

But lest anyone misunderstand what I've said, I believe my view to be 100% in line with the CCC and I would happily modify anything I've said were the Magisterium to require it of me.

 

[Cute Tink]

Take a look at this. I think God still has a problem with transgenderism by itself.

https://www.probe.org/what-is-a-biblical-view-of-transgendered-people-and-hermaphrodites/

Interesting read. God only creates male and female, except when he doesn't.

I also like that gender identity only exists and is true if it's what we expect it to be according to chromosomes (which don't always match the way the body develops) or the way the body develops (except when the body doesn't match the chromosomes).

Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to hold that belief as a part of your religion, just don't be surprised when people don't accept it as logical or consistent.

 

[katerinah1947]

FaeryChild was trying to reply to you but didn't use the reply button

Here's what was said

All of us are sinners and each of us should consider ourselves to be the chief of all sinners!
Ok, lust can lead down a bad road, regardless of if it is acted on. When we repent of any sin, we must intend to do our best to avoid the near occasion of sin. We cannot always control what we are exposed to or who we meet or what song we hear... however...
via Matt 19, some people should not even be trying to be married and should accept celibacy. Marriage is ordained to be a union between a man and a woman. On that, I'm sure we agree. Some people cannot realistically fit into that pattern, for a variety of reasons... things people were born with, things that have happened in life, choices they make, choices other make, etc. All of us are tempted with our own versions of evil & none are perfect, but all must strive to be holy.
Thus, some should not be married and should instead be consecrated to God.

But already here, we are saying why CF would rather people not discuss LGBT issues. Even when two people agree that certain activities are "off limits" they can still, nonetheless disagree as to why someone is LGBT and what is / is not an acceptable way for one to be LGBT and in the Church. In congregational settings, however, we are allowed to articulate the individual policies and disciplines given by the various churches. So, for the sake of this thread, I remind everyone of what the Catechism actually says:

"Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357)
and
"[homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.
"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359).

The official statements found in other churches are very different, at times even within a denomination like Lutheranism (compare the LCMS with the ELCA!).
So basically, if I understand CF rules correctly, congregational areas are in a sense "ruled" by their own discipline.

My understanding is that if/when a person chooses celibacy, they have the option of consecrating themselves to God, which is, in a sense, a form of marriage. So, in the sense that one conforms to the above statements, one can simultaneously be LGBT and a practicing Catholic.

Hi, (some edits. I am on a cell phone)
(Edits done now, I hope)
As I and the staff here, tried to decide what to change my status to, from married, in line with the new American Law on Same sex marriage, as I am not in a human relationship, but a mystical one, it was tough.

Finally, someone said to put down in-a-relationship, and then put down what that relationship was.

That I did not want to do.

It seemed like bragging.

It seemed too personal.

I said no. I will not do that.

I cannot do that.

The next day though, realizing that with God, all things are shared. I realized that, that part of my life, I would share also.

Please though. Ask me for no details, if you can.

My marriage was consummated one night. The staff was told of this. I post as that. I am not celibate.

This is not a marriage in heaven after I am dead.

This is not a marriage where I have committed myself to God, and therefore call myself married.

This is a marriage in which I worked with God The Father for years, on various earthly assignments, and never was there anything between, Him, me, His Son, or The Holy Spirit.

Never.

I worked for Jesus and The Holy Spirit, for years also.

The work is very enjoyable by the way.

It is so enjoyable, that in my final conversation before being Blown away, by being asked, when I asked Jesus to destroy me both body and soul in hell when I died, part of my requests to Him, was to be allowed to keep working for Them, as to me, it was just too much fun.

A month and a half later, God The Father, approached me from far off.

He stopped right over my living room. I didn't know why.

Nothing else talked. Nothing else was heard, till it was all over, essentially.

I blabbed eventually. People like you in church freaked. When it all checked out, they were and are still a little bit overwhelmed, but accepting.

On the night of that proclamation of: "I do this for a living, This Is The Holy Spirit", on that decision, that test, I was then bound for all eternity to believe also and in all ways, that indeed, I am married to God The Father.

That night, unexpectedly, my marriage was consummated, and yes me in female spiritual body form and He in male body form, but Spiritual also.

This may be unusual. So is getting knocked off a horse by Jesus. It is also unusual to talk to God, as he walks up to you. So, is being talked to by God, in a cloud.

Paul was knocked off the horse.
Abraham talked to God.
Job even saw God.

I saw God also, and was never the same also. After that I was never the same.

I saw God in January of 2006. And, that was not all. There is more.

In all of this I asked someone once, what this all meant.

The answer I am unsure of.

LOVE,

 

[DTate98]

Ok, fair enough. My main Biblical passage is all of Matthew 19. I see in that passage a conditional acceptance of LGBT people, the condition being that they refrain from marriage (the implication being that they are celibate because sex only belongs in a marriage).
DTate98, the place we appear to disagree is not in regards to which "sexual acts" are taboo. I think we agree on that. We disagree on whether or not being LGBT in and of itself is sinful. I argue that it is not, that it is the taboo acts which make something sinful. And, by the way, they are wrong not just for gay men or trans people but even for a married man and a woman! Even in a straight marriage, there is no reason for two to abuse each other in that way.

A person is "living in sin" when they engage in said "abhorrent sexual acts". The identity of being LGBT itself, well that may be of disordered origin, but it is not, I believe, the same as a sin that someone has chosen. Its like be angry, but don't sin in your anger. Be gay, be trans, be whatever, but don't use that as an excuse for sin.

We need a Church that walks the hard fine line of not rejecting these people (as happens in some Fundamentalist churches) while also not giving a license to engage in whatever sick fetish a person wants (as happens in some Mainline churches). I'm arguing the "right answer" is a razor thin path between the two extremes most commonly chosen.

But lest anyone misunderstand what I've said, I believe my view to be 100% in line with the CCC and I would happily modify anything I've said were the Magisterium to require it of me.

Hi,

As I and the staff here, tried to decide what to change my status to, from married, in line with the new American Law on Same sex marriage, as I am not in a human relationship, but a mystical one, it was tough.

Finally, someone said to put down in-a-relationship, and then put down what that relationship was.

That I did not want to do.

It seemed like bragging.

It seemed to personal.

I said no. I will not do that.

I cannot do that.

The next day though, realizing that with God, all things are shared. I realized that, that part of my life, I would share also.

Please though. Ask me for no details, if you can.

My marriage was consummated one night. The staff was told of this. I post as that. I am not celibate.

This is not a marriage in heaven after I am dead.

This is not a marriage where I have committed myself to God, and therefore call myself married.

This is a marriage in which I worked with God The Father for years, on various earthly assignments, and never was there anything between, Him, me, His Son, or The Hy Spirit.

Never. I worked for Jesus and The Holy Spirit, for years also.

The work is very enjoyable by the way.

It is so enjoyable, that in my final conversation before being Blown away, by being asked, when I asked Jesus to destroy me both body and soul in heaven when I died, part of my requests to Him, was to be allowed to keep working for Them, as to keep, it was just too much fun.

A month and a half later, God The Father, approached me from far off.

He stopped right over my living room. I didn't know why.

Nothing else talked. Nothing else was heard, till it was all over, essentially.

I blabbed eventually. People like you in church freaked. When it all checked out, they were and are still a little bit overwhelmed, but accepting.

On the night of that proclamation of: "I do this for a living, This Is The Holy Spirit", on that decision, that test, I was then bound for all eternity to believe also and in all ways, that indeed, I am married to God The Father.

That night, unexpectedly, my marriage was consummated, and yes me in female spiritual body form and He in male body form, but Spiritual also.

This may be unusual. So is getting knocked off a horse by Jesus. It is also unusual to talk to God, as he walks up to you.

Paul was knocked off the horse.
Abraham talked to God.
Job even saw God.

I saw God also, and was never the same also.

I saw God in January of 2006. And, that was not all. There is more.

In all of this I asked someone once, what this all meant.

The answer I am unsure of.

LOVE,

Interesting read. God only creates male and female, except when he doesn't.

I also like that gender identity only exists and is true if it's what we expect it to be according to chromosomes (which don't always match the way the body develops) or the way the body develops (except when the body doesn't match the chromosomes).

Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to hold that belief as a part of your religion, just don't be surprised when people don't accept it as logical or consistent.

My brain hurts a little right now, so I'm going to sit out for a few days. Hopefully we all come to a solution for this mess.

God bless you all

 

[FaeryChild]

4 different people, all saying something different regarding a difficult topic...
and this is, exactly why, at least generally speaking, CF wants us to not have the great LGBT debate. >.<

 

[katerinah1947]

My brain hurts a little right now, so I'm going to sit out for a few days. Hopefully we all come to a solution for this mess.

God bless you all

Hi,

Actually I understand. That poor guy, The Spiritual Director for The Roman Catholic Church, he took years to recover, but wow, was he pleased later.

He made it a point to tell me one day. He is dead now. I actually miss him.

I hated losing him as a friend. I don't do well with guy close friends. After I disclosed to him that I was transgender, it was over.

Yet, years later, when I was commanded in a heresy call, really, to get a Spiritual Director, he volunteered, the only one in a room full of priests. (Three or four maybe. I was nervous.)

He had a real problem, with the same issues you are having. He somehow still thought of me as male.

He didn't though when it was all over.

I still do somedays though. Then I have to remember as much as I can. After that, I just accept, what God, science, all my external observations, and what internally my interior says.

Despite everything, inside I am female, a married one.

LOVE,

 

[DTate98]

Hi,

Actually I understand. That poor guy, The Spiritual Director for The Roman Catholic Church, he took years to recover, but wow, was he pleased later.

He made it a point to tell me one day. He is dead now. I actually miss him.

I hated losing him as a friend. I don't do well with guy close friends. After I disclosed to him that I was transgender, it was over.

Yet, years later, when I was commanded in a heresy call, really, to get a Spiritual Director, he volunteered, the only one in a room full of priests. (Three or four maybe. I was nervous.)

He had a real problem, with the same issues you are having. He somehow still thought of me as male.

He didn't though when it was all over.

I still do somedays though. Then I have to remember as much as I can. After that, I just accept, what God, science, all my external observations, and what internally my interior says.

Despite everything, inside I am female, a married one.

LOVE,

You're confused about your gender. You may think you are a female, but really your exterior determines what you are. I think transgenderism is either a choice or some sort of mental disorder. Either way it can be overcome, and you need to fight it with help from God.

 

[Cute Tink]

You're confused about your gender. You may think you are a female, but really your exterior determines what you are. I think transgenderism is either a choice or some sort of mental disorder.

Transgenderism is neither, nor is it confusion.

The link you provided said the exterior can be wrong when chromosomes disagree. There are a lot of possible combinations of chromosomes though - many more than XX or XY.

Have a nice night.

 

[FaeryChild]

Not all conditions can be overcome. Yes, I know, with God all things are possible & I know that miracles have happened. But most people live with the conditions they inherit. Diabetics cannot choose to have a normal response to sugar. They need medical intervention AND have to modify their dietary choices. It isn't entirely fair, is it? Blind people can overcome a lot, but we still don't have them flying airplanes.

Looking at a condition that is obviously opposed to natural law and concluding that the person has offended God is an easy mistake for people to make. They made it in John 9:2 when they asked Jesus whether or not the blindness had come from his own sin or his parents' sin. One can easily imagine a person saying, "But God doesn't make people blind!" But in the end, no one had personally sinned, though clearly blindness itself is a manifestation of sin. Now Jesus healed that blind man.
But in general, blind people tend to live with their condition. They haven't sinned, but they have to live responsibly with that cross. Diabetics don't sin by just having the disease, but they have to live accordingly. People are born with all kinds of conditions, visible and invisible. We can't look at a baby and say, gosh, this kid has major depression or schizophrenia. But those with severe mental illness have to bear that cross and take meds and utilize programs and not kill themselves.

All of us have our crosses to bear. Sometimes God may miraculously take it away, but St. Paul was left with his own thorn. Does God make people LGBT? No, of course not. The plan is, of course, Adam & Eve (not Adam & Steve!). Original guilt has a different effect on all us. Some of us end up somewhere along the LGBT line. People with gender disabilities tend to realize this very early on, say ages 3-6. I simply do not believe children of that age are even capable of choosing sin. Using coercive corrective methods just makes the problem go into the subconscious where it festers and returns later in full force and with bitterness.

When a person shows up as LGBT, s/he should be welcomed and accepted - whatever form the cross may take for such a person. The Church is already going to have to ask them to opt out of marriage and human sexuality, so the Church must balance that discipline with as much love and empathy as possible.

Therapies designed to "fix" LGBT folk backfire. Then people end up in marriages where one person is normal and straight only to someday face the horrible discovery that instead of getting the Sacrament of marriage s/he got someone who was, in fact, incapable of honoring the vows, for one reason or the other. By all means, direct LGBT people towards lives of chastity and let those who can consecrate themselves to God, let them do so. But also, by all means, do not take their identity away, allow them the dignity of honesty.

Be gay / lesbian / transgender, but do NOT sin in doing so.

 

[Martinius]

Hey folks, why are we talking to this guy? He doesn't even belong here. Would any of you butt in on a forum for another denomination, such as Baptist, and proceed to post derogatory comments about the members of that faith on a thread there? No, me neither.

We had a really nice thread going here, with some good discussion, until some guy came in and disrupted it. I say we should just ignore him or report him. If I had a flyswatter and could reach that far, I would swat him away. It is useless to try to converse with him.

 

[FaeryChild]

I note that he just very recently joined and is probably not aware of how the congregational rules work. Part of its my fault for taking the bait and trying to answer a question about homosexuality. I should have handled my responses better.

 

[Martinius]

I just checked his posts. Something like 38 of the last 40 posts by this Baptist are on Catholic threads. He is obviously just here to bash Catholicism and Catholics. I don't mind a non-Catholic coming in with a question or comment, as long as it is in fellowship. But this guy's sole purpose is to attack the Catholic faith.

The only good result is that he has livened up this forum somewhat. But enough is enough.

 

[katerinah1947]

You're confused about your gender. You may think you are a female, but really your exterior determines what you are. I think transgenderism is either a choice or some sort of mental disorder. Either way it can be overcome, and you need to fight it with help from God.

Hi,

No one. No one has overcome this using God.

One of the reasons some of the LGBTI group, know so much about God, is their lives were at stake.

Their life with God and the afterlife was and is at stake.

I am thick headed, I think. Others call it mental toughness. At the very least I am slow to learn.

As I used God for various aspects of being transgendered, God would do things to prevent me from dying.

I was told by others, that fighting being transgendered, as hard as I was mentally, has resulted in eventually my body shutting down in physical ways.

When at my absolute toughest, that way, I was blown up in a non painful accident.

Repair aided by a doctor who treated my burns with salve only, eventually led me to shed a tear.

I was not pleased. I was 21, and thoughts of suicide for the pain, entered my head, and then I was angry at those people who would be hurt, by me killing myself.

That was about 11:00 PM one night. I put the pistol back in the drawer.

I don't know if I just woke up from sleep or not, but was soon walking outside to combat the boredom with being awake.

It gets really old really fast, when you are awake for 23 1/4 hours a day, day after day.

The pain was so intense, that I could only fall asleep for 3/4 of an hour each day. The pain kept me awake the rest of the time.

After that, I was less shut down emotionally. That broke me a little bit. I hated it.

The next incident was perhaps with an unusual heart condition. I am an athlete. No one expects me to have a problem. A medicine I allowed them to give me, is a know heart clogger. I took it anyway for about 8 months.

Never again did I have the problem, it relieved.

One day, while working with The guys, I did not recover fast enough. That was on a Saturday.

On Monday, I told my doctor of this. He assured me it was nothing. But, just in case, he wanted me to show up for a treadmill test on Thursday.

In the meantime, I was not to do any strenuous exercise.

I only ran for two or three days. As really, I don't want to be out of shape on the treadmill. I in those days, was still believing everyone, but not the scientists yet.

Treadmill day came. I ran for 12 minutes. Everyone was happy except for the woman who was with me. She came along with me, but was not a medical person.

They stopped me short of my being ready to stop. I was upset.

Then I was asked what I wanted to do, like I was the doctor. Widower spikes were all over the place.

It was upon waking, that things were strange. "Why did they put a woman's heart in me?"

It was unreasonable, as they were giving me no anti rejection drugs. But, I could not shake the feeling.

Also, off the point, I was none too happy about being alive. What I wanted most in those days, was denied to me, death. Yet, that was 11 years ago, and there was much to happen and do here that I knew nothing about yet.

But, with God and Catholicism I was perfect. Why not then? When would I ever be spiritually this prepared to die.

It was a four or five bypass heart surgery with an aneurism, and I was out of there very shortly as all I knew how to do was deny myself and work.

A woman's heart though? What was that all about?

Again, I am knocked off my trying. Would that have killed me? Who cares? By then death was a wish, a desire.

I was broken slightly. Maybe God did sonething to go along with two battle fatigue incidents and maybe not, but even with no heart damage, I never bounced back. Never.

I would see God next year. Jesus would come inside of me. The Holy Spirit and Mary, both of them I would interface with, and 21 months later, with a full female mind somehow, shocking all the doctors and me, I was asked that question.

Before that though, The God you keep telling me that I have no correct relationship with, interfaced with me several times.

Jesus and Mary were great. I still remember. By that time, I could no longer remember what it was like to think like a male.

The next encounter personally with Jesus was a month and a half later.

Then the proposal came.

In all that time, but maybe not now, people tell me how mentally tough I am. I don't think it is true.

However, with all of that, I found out that LONG TERM, zero, ZERO People have ever been relieved of being Transgendered.

That is surprising, with all that is at stake. And, with just my relationship alone with God, really, Really do you not think that He would have done something along your line of thought?

No one long term of any Transgender issue, has ever been relieved of that by God, apart from God having a more personal contact with that person, and letting them know.

Know what God really thinks of them, and my issue.

There is more.

LOVE,

 

[FaeryChild]

Thank you for the courage to share your story! Being transgender is a burden, but Jesus and Mary will help you and guide you. Please keep your faith & keep going.

 

[katerinah1947]

Not all conditions can be overcome. Yes, I know, with God all things are possible & I know that miracles have happened. But most people live with the conditions they inherit. Diabetics cannot choose to have a normal response to sugar. They need medical intervention AND have to modify their dietary choices. It isn't entirely fair, is it? Blind people can overcome a lot, but we still don't have them flying airplanes.

Looking at a condition that is obviously opposed to natural law and concluding that the person has offended God is an easy mistake for people to make. They made it in John 9:2 when they asked Jesus whether or not the blindness had come from his own sin or his parents' sin. One can easily imagine a person saying, "But God doesn't make people blind!" But in the end, no one had personally sinned, though clearly blindness itself is a manifestation of sin. Now Jesus healed that blind man.
But in general, blind people tend to live with their condition. They haven't sinned, but they have to live responsibly with that cross. Diabetics don't sin by just having the disease, but they have to live accordingly. People are born with all kinds of conditions, visible and invisible. We can't look at a baby and say, gosh, this kid has major depression or schizophrenia. But those with severe mental illness have to bear that cross and take meds and utilize programs and not kill themselves.

All of us have our crosses to bear. Sometimes God may miraculously take it away, but St. Paul was left with his own thorn. Does God make people LGBT? No, of course not. The plan is, of course, Adam & Eve (not Adam & Steve!). Original guilt has a different effect on all us. Some of us end up somewhere along the LGBT line. People with gender disabilities tend to realize this very early on, say ages 3-6. I simply do not believe children of that age are even capable of choosing sin. Using coercive corrective methods just makes the problem go into the subconscious where it festers and returns later in full force and with bitterness.

When a person shows up as LGBT, s/he should be welcomed and accepted - whatever form the cross may take for such a person. The Church is already going to have to ask them to opt out of marriage and human sexuality, so the Church must balance that discipline with as much love and empathy as possible.

Therapies designed to "fix" LGBT folk backfire. Then people end up in marriages where one person is normal and straight only to someday face the horrible discovery that instead of getting the Sacrament of marriage s/he got someone who was, in fact, incapable of honoring the vows, for one reason or the other. By all means, direct LGBT people towards lives of chastity and let those who can consecrate themselves to God, let them do so. But also, by all means, do not take their identity away, allow them the dignity of honesty.

Be gay / lesbian / transgender, but do NOT sin in doing so.

Hi,

Yours is a well thought out post. The matter is still undecided by The Roman Catholic Church.

What is out there is some article by OSV, saying in a secret document it has been decided.

Even if that Newpaper article was true, even if Paul McHugh was an honest scientist, there in all places I am allowed now to be transgendered, by their words.

My case is extreme. The Catholic Church allows me, as the work so far has really lessened the problem, to accept what the medical doctors and scientists are saying works.

In my case, being Catholic, I accept also death over sin. I cannot and have not been given that permission. It is though my commitment to God.

This whole thing may not be a moral, ethical, or a sin issue. It may be just a naturally occurring event, that in it's simplest forms is recognized as Intersexed.

As a normal scientist, when I look at this, we as a group simplify things to what they really are. In my work, I call this Intersexed.

In this case rather than body parts or chromosomes being Intersexed , it is the brain that is Intersexed with the body.

In my case it is more than just the brain. Everyone has noticed historically. Yet, Intersexed is Intersexed, and there is not just one version of it.

I am not outside of natural law. Natural law is being used by people incorrectly in my case.

I would say, and I do, but again to my peers and they all, ALL agree, Transgender is really a form of being Intersexed. It is the brain being Intersexed, but there are always other things that go along with that bodily, although slight, in all the Intersexed people, I know of, that are Transgendered.

But, since that is not an area of primary research for me, I can not prove that yet, about the bodies of all transgender individuals yet.

LOVE,

 

[katerinah1947]

Thank you for the courage to share your story! Being transgender is a burden, but Jesus and Mary will help you and guide you. Please keep your faith & keep going.

Hi,

Thanks, They are helping. Faith is a tough one. All faiths so far have some problem with some aspect of my life.

LOVE,

 

[Martinius]

Hi,

Thanks, They are helping. Faith is a tough one. All faiths so far have some problem with some aspect of my life.

Pope Francis has declared a Holy Year of Mercy, and it is clear that he is broadening the view of the Church regarding mercy, inclusion and acceptance. We supposedly believe that we are all God's children, yet we have, throughout history, been inclined to dismiss or disinherit from God's kingdom various categories of people. And we have the example of Jesus, who shocked the established church of his time by his inclusiveness. Yet we seem to ignore the Gospel and fundamental beliefs about God and humanity way too often. This has puzzled me for decades.

 

[FaeryChild]

have you ever come across a book called "Why God doesn't hate you" by Tia Michelle Pesando? She is Roman Catholic and a consecrated virgin and I think you would be inspired by her story.
No matter what happens, remember that you have recourse to the Virgin Mother of God.

 

[DTate98]

Hey folks, why are we talking to this guy? He doesn't even belong here. Would any of you butt in on a forum for another denomination, such as Baptist, and proceed to post derogatory comments about the members of that faith on a thread there? No, me neither.

We had a really nice thread going here, with some good discussion, until some guy came in and disrupted it. I say we should just ignore him or report him. If I had a flyswatter and could reach that far, I would swat him away. It is useless to try to converse with him.

Excuse me? How was anything I said derogatory? I didn't use any foul language and did not insult any particular person. I get it. I'm not supposed to oppose a denomination on a forum dedicated to it, but is derogatory really the right word here?