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"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:1,2
First, how do you justify the goodness of God or morality by your belief? The short answer is you can't, which is why your belief doesn't work to begin with. Second, there are two problems with your interpretation of Romans 8:1-2 here.
Problem #1. - You left out the part of the verse in Romans 8:1 that says "Who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Here is the entire verse. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. " (Romans 8:1). This means in order to NOT be under the "Condemnation" you have to (a) be in Christ Jesus and (b) Walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin).
Problem #2. - Romans 8:2 mentions two types of Laws. It mentions:
Just go back to verse 1 and it tells you.
It says there is no Condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).
Here is the entire verse. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. " (Romans 8:1). This means in order to NOT be under the "Condemnation" you have to (a) be in Christ Jesus and (b) Walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin).
Problem #2. - Romans 8:2 mentions two types of Laws. It mentions:
(a) The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Which is obviously a New Testament Law).
(b) The Law of Sin and Death (Which is obviously the Old Testament Law).
What is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus?(b) The Law of Sin and Death (Which is obviously the Old Testament Law).
Just go back to verse 1 and it tells you.
It says there is no Condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).
Yet, you are under the false misunderstanding, that you are not under any kind of Law. Yet, Romans 8 says that as a result of following the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, it will result in this, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4).
Did you catch that? It says that the righteousness of the Law will be fulfilled in us if we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin).
bcbsr said:Sounds like what Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
Is one truly believing in Jesus if they do not do what He says? No.
Jesus says why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say? (Luke 6:46).
Jesus says not everyone says unto Him Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of God but he that does the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21).
The will of God (or the will of the Father) is our Sanctification or our holiness (See 1 Thessalonians 4:3).
Jesus says if a man does not do what he says he is like a fool who builds his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27). The analogy here is that you are living in that house when the storm comes and you will be killed in that house when the storm crushes it.
But John is not talking about imputed righteousness here (The imputed righteousness of Christ is only for initial salvation when a saint first believes or accepts Christ as their Savior. However, to have the blood continually cleanse of all sin after that point, the saint needs to walk righteously in the light of Christ. See 1 John 1:7). For if you were to read 1 John 3:7 it says be not deceived, he that DOES righteousness is righteous. 1 John 3:10 says,bcbsr said:As for "free will", hasn't that issue be impact by regeneration as John writes, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).
So we see that he that DOES NOT righteousness is not of God and neither is he that LOVES NOT his brother. Yet, you are saying that this individual can be of God because no sin can separate you from God.
No mention here is given of how often you must not love your brother in order for it to be a problem with God. In fact, we know that not loving your brother even once is a problem. For 1 John 3:15 says he that hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.
bcbsr said:So it's not possible for those born of God to continue living a lifestyle of sin, not due to person "effort", but rather as the inevitable consequence of having been born of God.
So you believe that true saints are characterized as living a holy life. So if one day you find yourself enslaved into a lifestyle of sin, does that mean your previous walk with God in holiness was not true?
Paul is talking about external things of this world here. Paul is not talking about the internal decision to choose sin within that list. Nowhere does Paul say that continually abiding in horrible sins the rest of your life cannot separate you from the love of God.bcbsr said:Furthermore Paul writes, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 8:38,39
bcbsr said:Seems to me "nor the future" to be saying "Once Saved Always Saved"
And given that you and me are part of the creation and it says, "nor anything else in all creation" which says to me that once a person is in Christ it's not up to him to decide to leave.
Well, chances are you wouldn't even know about Once Saved Always Saved if it wasn't for others telling you about it. It is not something that came to you when you were studying the Scriptures on your own. It is not natural and it goes against morality or the goodness of God and one has to ignore and twist the majority of the Bible to make it work. For there are many warnings to the New Testament believer. Ignore them at your own peril.
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