Job was a man on Planet Earth. This is clear when you realize that Jesus has preeminence or first place in ALL things, including Heaven and He was crucified AFTER Job was long gone. Amen?
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Alternative to the literal 24hr and day-age views of creation
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Job was a man on Planet Earth. This is clear when you realize that Jesus has preeminence or first place in ALL things, including Heaven and He was crucified AFTER Job was long gone. Amen?
Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God (Elohim) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:7 And the LORD (YHWH-Jesus) said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.
Many men saw the Son (Jesus) in the O.T. but NO man has ever seen the invisible Spirit we call God. Satan and the sons of God (prehistoric people) saw the Lord (YHWH/Jesus) on Planet Earth. Jesus IS Lord. Amen?
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Willtor
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I suppose you think that God was made subject to people, since he was on the Earth in Job? No, we're meant to think that Satan is presenting himself before God in Heaven.
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Since God is an Invisible Spirit and exists physically ONLY in YHWH/Jesus and NO man has ever seen Him, WHERE do you get the idea that prehistoric people (sons of God) and Satan saw Him and talked with Him? They saw and talked to Jesus, just a many people did in the Old Testament.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God (Elohim) at any time;
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Amen. Satan is a fallen angel and the sons of God are prehistoric people who were on Earth and NOT in Heaven as you posted. Unless you can tell us HOW they managed to get to Heaven, your previous ideas are refuted. God Bless you
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Willtor
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They are not prehistoric people. Otherwise, how would they have been talking about an historic person in the present tense? It's a reference to angels or some other heavenly beings (possibly fallen angels or something of that sort).
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yeshuasavedme
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Satan is not a fallen angel. There are no prehistoric anthing. history begins in Genesis 1, when God wrote how He created the heavens and earth in six evenings and mornings and all that in them is.
There was no stretched out heavens from the globe of water even, until day 2. The heavens were stretched out in stories/layers from this earth on day two, between the divided in two waters of this present globe.
The heavens and earth did not even get named until the heavens were stretched out and named "two waters", on day 2, and the earth did not even get named until day 3, when God commanded the waters below the heavens to be gathered together in one place, and the "dry" to appear. God called the waters "seas", and the dry he called "eretz/earth".
There is no such teaching in the Word of God anywhere that anyone can use as a foundation for such a myth as the satan being a fallen holy angel. He is, collectively, with all his evil angels, however, the spirit of destruction/corruption/death/slander/murder/ and so on...
God uses them for destruction and cursing those who go against the Light. they get to kill and maim and curse those whom God curses. They cannot go against God and must have permission to touch anyone on earth.
They have full legal authority to corrupt the flesh of the entire Adam creation, since the fall.
We can only escape by turning to the LORD with all our hearts, and being His own adopted sons in the Promised Seed, the Redeemer/Kinsman, the Christ come in flesh, who was promised from Genesis 3:15.
Satan is a created evil spirit in heaven who has armies of created evil spirits under him. They serve God as evil angels of destruction. They can do nothing unless they get permission from God the Creator, and God uses them to try the holy angels in heaven and the souls born in Adam on earth, in this present creation, until the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, when they will be shut up in their kingdom of darkness/ the Lake of Fire, which was prepared for them from the beginning....
All who follow them, by believing and acting on their lies, against God, without repenting, will be their food and drink in the Lake of Fire forever, for they are the tormentors who will torment forever as their food and drink, their "prey"....they are prepping in this present creation by laying up their stores for eternity, when they will no longer get out of their kingdom.
The sons of God/ben Elohym/ fallen, formerly holy, watcher angels married daughters of Adam/bath Adam, and went in to them [had relations with them], and got offspring by them.
The offspring of the sons of God are the bastards. They are the multiplied remnants of the spirits of the fallen watcher angels in the stolen flesh of the Adam creation.
They are the damned. The disembodied spirits of the offspring of the fallen watcher angels are the demons who roam earth seeking to seduce, tempt and destroy the flesh of the Adam creation souls.
They will not be removed from earth untl Jesus returns to reign and sends His angels to gather them up and cast them into the Lake of Fire, as the "tares/darnel =bastard wheat", not of the planting of God.
The Book of Enoch is clear on who the satans/evil spirits and the sons of God and all the holy angels, and the Adam creation are. The Torah makes the comments it makes that are taken right out of the Book of Enoch, on these things. So does the teaching of Jesus in the NT and the Revelation of Christ given to John.
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Amen, except that we still live on the present 6th Day since God (Trinity) is STILL creating Adam (mankind) in His Image or in Christ Spiritually. IF God had already completed ALL of His work, it would be too late to become one of the host of heaven. Gen 2:1
*** There was no stretched out heavens from the globe of water even, until day 2. The heavens were stretched out in stories/layers from this earth on day two, between the divided in two waters of this present globe.
Not so, since there is NO solid, beat out, firmament above Earth. The solid firmament protected the interior of the first heaven, from the water into which the heaven was placed.Gen 1:7 When you separate water from water with a solid firmament, the firmament is surrounded by water.
*** The heavens and earth did not even get named until the heavens were stretched out and named "two waters", on day 2, and the earth did not even get named until day 3, when God commanded the waters below the heavens to be gathered together in one place, and the "dry" to appear. God called the waters "seas", and the dry he called "eretz/earth".
At the beginning of Day 3, God put some of the water from UNDER the hollow firmament, inside the firmament put dry ground on top of the water and called it Earth. This was Adam's Earth. You must be studying the views of ancient men.
*** There is no such teaching in the Word of God anywhere that anyone can use as a foundation for such a myth as the satan being a fallen holy angel. He is, collectively, with all his evil angels, however, the spirit of destruction/corruption/death/slander/murder/ and so on...
Then please explain who fell from Heaven IF it wasn't satan: Isa 14:12
*** God uses them for destruction and cursing those who go against the Light. they get to kill and maim and curse those whom God curses. They cannot go against God and must have permission to touch anyone on earth.
They have full legal authority to corrupt the flesh of the entire Adam creation, since the fall.
We can only escape by turning to the LORD with all our hearts, and being His own adopted sons in the Promised Seed, the Redeemer/Kinsman, the Christ come in flesh, who was promised from Genesis 3:15.
Satan is a created evil spirit in heaven who has armies of created evil spirits under him. They serve God as evil angels of destruction. They can do nothing unless they get permission from God the Creator, and God uses them to try the holy angels in heaven and the souls born in Adam on earth, in this present creation, until the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, when they will be shut up in their kingdom of darkness/ the Lake of Fire, which was prepared for them from the beginning....
All who follow them, by believing and acting on their lies, against God, without repenting, will be their food and drink in the Lake of Fire forever, for they are the tormentors who will torment forever as their food and drink, their "prey"....they are prepping in this present creation by laying up their stores for eternity, when they will no longer get out of their kingdom.
Why do Spirits need to eat sinners? Again, this must be the suspicious view of ancient men.
*** The sons of God/ben Elohym/ fallen, formerly holy, watcher angels married daughters of Adam/bath Adam, and went in to them [had relations with them], and got offspring by them.
The offspring of the sons of God are the bastards. They are the multiplied remnants of the spirits of the fallen watcher angels in the stolen flesh of the Adam creation.
They are the damned. The disembodied spirits of the offspring of the fallen watcher angels are the demons who roam earth seeking to seduce, tempt and destroy the flesh of the Adam creation souls.
They will not be removed from earth untl Jesus returns to reign and sends His angels to gather them up and cast them into the Lake of Fire, as the "tares/darnel =bastard wheat", not of the planting of God.
The Book of Enoch is clear on who the satans/evil spirits and the sons of God and all the holy angels, and the Adam creation are. The Torah makes the comments it makes that are taken right out of the Book of Enoch, on these things. So does the teaching of Jesus in the NT and the Revelation of Christ given to John.
..................o9
Chapter and verse please, and tell us HOW spirits have sex with women, and produce children with them, apart from the book of Enoch, which is NOT part of Scripture. Do you think that maybe Enoch was NOT a part of Scripture since it is False? Amen?
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yeshuasavedme
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Aman, there is too much in your post to reply to in one, and in some of the things stated, you are asking for a complete exhaustive study of the Word itself, to be done for you, when you can ask God and seek answers in His word, itself, and He will open your understanding to what is written just as it is, without adding or detracting from it.
But briiefly: Enoch is "inspired writing", and was always in the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church because redeemed diaspora Jews in Ethiopia did not come under Rome and cast it out. They always had it, and they kept it. Summascriptura, a poster on this forum, has much to say about the history of the Book of Enoch and its use in ancient times. For myself, I accept it and use it, and without apology, for it is the book which lays the foundations for all the things contained in the Torah account, and Torah does not lay the foundations anew, because once laid, they need not be torn down or relaid.
There is no understanding of the Revelation of Christ given to John without the foundation of it laid in Enoch....
As to spirits having "sex" with daughters of Adam. The sons of God take on bodies of flesh to do what they do. They can appear as men; eat, drink, sleep, walk, talk, fight, and so on and so forth.
Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares].
The 200 fallen Watcher angels took an oath before the flood, in the days of Jared, to curse themselves by taking wives of the daughters of Adam and get offspring by them, at Mount Zion -the mountain now called Mount Hermon/Mount of the Oath", in the north of Israel. For that reason, it was called "Mount Hermon/The Mount of the Oath" ever after.
In Genesis 18, angels appeared as men and ate and drank with Abraham and walked to Sodom and ate and drank with Lot.
In the book of Tobit, which is in the Bible of many of the world's Christian denominations [ and was in the KJV 1911 Bible, along with the other so called second canon books[, the angel Raphael, one of the seven named Holy Watcher angels who stand before the throne in heaven, appeared as a human being, and was the man who was "hired" by Tobit to accompany Tobias back to Israel from Persia and get Tobit's wealth laid by with a man there, and to get a wife for Tobias.
You should read it sometime. Raphael does not reveal that he is an angel, and they are together, walked together, and slept together; and all the time, Tobias had no idea his companion was a holy Watcher angels in the form of a man.
As to having sex with daughters of Adam: that is what Moses wrote they did, in Genesis 6. Read the original. The chained 200 angels cannot do it again, who were chained at the flood, but other holy angels also fell after the flood and took wives of the daughters of Adam and produced giants on the earth, as Moses said.
Jude, womb brother of Jesus/Yeshua, also wrote that the angels chained in Sheol committed fornication/unlawful sex acts. -Jesus' family had, and read, the Book of Enoch, for His womb brother, Yacob/James, also remarked from it, and the LORD Jesus preached His Gospel from it.
As to how they can be fathers of flesh children when they themselves have no ability to have seed within themselves [as all created kinds do, who are made male and female]: Scripture in Enoch is clear that they taught the secrets of life to their wives: manipulated the flesh of their wives by splicing their own DNA information into the eggs of the wives [taught the cutting/splicing of roots/DNA info in a cell] to have not only offspring by them, but to also taught their offspring to commit such deeds of creating chimera with all flesh on earth, to make monsters. All flesh on earth was corrupted by them and their offspring, and many monsters were made by manipulation of DNA of all kinds. This broke God's Law, for He said all kinds He created with seed in themselves must only multiply after their own kind.
Modern men, under the influence of demons [disembodied offspring of the fallen angels], today, are also doing the same, and monsters are being created by such evil deeds -and God will wipe out the corrupted flesh by fire, the next time, as He has stated, and not by a flood.
This deals only with one of your questions. Others will follow.
But briiefly: Enoch is "inspired writing", and was always in the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church because redeemed diaspora Jews in Ethiopia did not come under Rome and cast it out. They always had it, and they kept it. Summascriptura, a poster on this forum, has much to say about the history of the Book of Enoch and its use in ancient times. For myself, I accept it and use it, and without apology, for it is the book which lays the foundations for all the things contained in the Torah account, and Torah does not lay the foundations anew, because once laid, they need not be torn down or relaid.
There is no understanding of the Revelation of Christ given to John without the foundation of it laid in Enoch....
As to spirits having "sex" with daughters of Adam. The sons of God take on bodies of flesh to do what they do. They can appear as men; eat, drink, sleep, walk, talk, fight, and so on and so forth.
Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares].
The 200 fallen Watcher angels took an oath before the flood, in the days of Jared, to curse themselves by taking wives of the daughters of Adam and get offspring by them, at Mount Zion -the mountain now called Mount Hermon/Mount of the Oath", in the north of Israel. For that reason, it was called "Mount Hermon/The Mount of the Oath" ever after.
In Genesis 18, angels appeared as men and ate and drank with Abraham and walked to Sodom and ate and drank with Lot.
In the book of Tobit, which is in the Bible of many of the world's Christian denominations [ and was in the KJV 1911 Bible, along with the other so called second canon books[, the angel Raphael, one of the seven named Holy Watcher angels who stand before the throne in heaven, appeared as a human being, and was the man who was "hired" by Tobit to accompany Tobias back to Israel from Persia and get Tobit's wealth laid by with a man there, and to get a wife for Tobias.
You should read it sometime. Raphael does not reveal that he is an angel, and they are together, walked together, and slept together; and all the time, Tobias had no idea his companion was a holy Watcher angels in the form of a man.
As to having sex with daughters of Adam: that is what Moses wrote they did, in Genesis 6. Read the original. The chained 200 angels cannot do it again, who were chained at the flood, but other holy angels also fell after the flood and took wives of the daughters of Adam and produced giants on the earth, as Moses said.
Jude, womb brother of Jesus/Yeshua, also wrote that the angels chained in Sheol committed fornication/unlawful sex acts. -Jesus' family had, and read, the Book of Enoch, for His womb brother, Yacob/James, also remarked from it, and the LORD Jesus preached His Gospel from it.
As to how they can be fathers of flesh children when they themselves have no ability to have seed within themselves [as all created kinds do, who are made male and female]: Scripture in Enoch is clear that they taught the secrets of life to their wives: manipulated the flesh of their wives by splicing their own DNA information into the eggs of the wives [taught the cutting/splicing of roots/DNA info in a cell] to have not only offspring by them, but to also taught their offspring to commit such deeds of creating chimera with all flesh on earth, to make monsters. All flesh on earth was corrupted by them and their offspring, and many monsters were made by manipulation of DNA of all kinds. This broke God's Law, for He said all kinds He created with seed in themselves must only multiply after their own kind.
Modern men, under the influence of demons [disembodied offspring of the fallen angels], today, are also doing the same, and monsters are being created by such evil deeds -and God will wipe out the corrupted flesh by fire, the next time, as He has stated, and not by a flood.
This deals only with one of your questions. Others will follow.
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Doesn't work since these supposed "watcher angels" are no where to be found AFTER the flood. This misinterpretation happens because superstitious ancient men THOUGHT it must be angels, since they had no idea what the "sons of God" were. They didn't know that the sons of God were prehistoric people made of flesh, who had their origin in the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21
Science shows the same thing and so does History since prehistoric people had been on Planet Earth for Millions of years BEFORE Noah arrived. They left their bones all over our Earth but ancient men did not know that our Earth is NOT Adam's Earth because his Earth was totally destroyed in the flood. Peter told us all about it and so did many of the people who wrote what the Holy Spirit told them to write in the Bible.
2Pet3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed utterly)
See? Adam's Earth, the firmament/heaven that THEN WAS was totally destroyed in the Flood. Godless people, who dreamed up the False Theory of Evolution, did NOT know this because ancient men had many false religious ideas. Those who study these men's religious views by tradition make the same mistakes.
7 But the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
The sons of God (prehistoric people) on our Planet were ALSO on Adam's Earth. The best example is Cain's wife. She wasn't a demon or a spirit but a woman of flesh. When the Ark arrived on our Planet, Noah's grandsons, like Cain, had NO other Humans to marry. Like Cain, they married and produced today's Humans with the prehistoric people who had been on our Earth for Millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived. Gen 6:4
This is confirmed by History which shows that prehistoric people NEVER planted a crop nor built a house. AFTER Noah arrived in the mountains of Ararat, History records the beginning of Human (descendants of Adam) on our Planet up until the present time. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html God's Truth is the Truth Scripturally, Scientifically and Historically to everyone EXCEPT the Scoffers of the last days. Amen?
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yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
I was hoping to go on, but your reply stops us at the point that the Holy Watcher angels are fact, in Enoch, in Torah, in Revelation, in Daniel, in Tobit, in Isaiah, in Luke, and many more.
Enoch saw the Watcher angels as pillars of fire, who could appear as men. They act for YHWH, and seven of them are named in Enoch as before the throne in heaven, always. I mentioned Raphael in Tobit, and he is one who appeared as a man in Tobit.
Gabriel is one who appeared to Zecharias, who was to father John the Baptist. When Zecharias asked for a sign, Gabriel was a bit ticked off, and gave him the sign of being mute til these things came to pass.
"I am Gabriel who stands before God"....
But I am not sure if that Gabriel was one of the four presences, or one of the seven Archangels, for Gabriel is a name shared in both lists, in Enoch.
Mount Hermon is the land of the Dan, the judges/rulers who descended to earth and ascended to heaven, and where, before the flood, 200 took an oath to be cursed and never take back their heavenly bodies and to marry daughters of Adam. as Jude said, they left their own estate and are chained in Sheol as a warning to other holy Watcher angels to not do that same fornication; but others did do it after the flood, and they will suffer the damnation of the "everlasting Fires that Sodom was only a warning of, to those who commit unlawful fornication with "alien/strange flesh; like the fallen angels with daughters of Adam and Adam males with Adam males, or Adam females with Adam females. Jude told us the chaining of the fallen angels was a warning against such [to other watcher angels], and the nuking of Sodom and the cities of the plain with fire and brimstone was a warning against same sex fornication to the Adam race, and a demonstration of the eternal, everlasting fires they will suffer if they do not heed the warning given through Sodom &Co, which coined for us the word "Hades"..
Dan, in Hebrew means judge/ruler. God set the Watchers over earth to judge it.
As judges, the council of the heavenly Watchers/chief angels judged Nebuchadnezzar:
Dan 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a Watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
...Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
The Seven Archangels
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#99:2
20 And these are the names of the holy angels who watch.
2Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus.
3Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men.
4Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries.
5Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos.
6Saraqael, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit.
7Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim.
8Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.
In Daniel, we see the council of the Holy Watchers warn and judge Nebucahdnezzar.
Dan 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
Enoch also tells us of the "four presenses" before the throne in heaven. One is named Penuel/Face/Presense of God. He was with Israel from the beginning, as the presense/face of God.
He is "The Angel of the Bush", was with Israel in the forty years from coming out of Egypt to the entry into Canaan.
Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Exo 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, and THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE]B/] saved them; in His love and in His mercy He redeemed them; and He lifted them and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy; He fought against them."
There's lots more, but surely you can go on a search now, with just this beginning...
Enoch saw the Watcher angels as pillars of fire, who could appear as men. They act for YHWH, and seven of them are named in Enoch as before the throne in heaven, always. I mentioned Raphael in Tobit, and he is one who appeared as a man in Tobit.
Gabriel is one who appeared to Zecharias, who was to father John the Baptist. When Zecharias asked for a sign, Gabriel was a bit ticked off, and gave him the sign of being mute til these things came to pass.
"I am Gabriel who stands before God"....
But I am not sure if that Gabriel was one of the four presences, or one of the seven Archangels, for Gabriel is a name shared in both lists, in Enoch.
Mount Hermon is the land of the Dan, the judges/rulers who descended to earth and ascended to heaven, and where, before the flood, 200 took an oath to be cursed and never take back their heavenly bodies and to marry daughters of Adam. as Jude said, they left their own estate and are chained in Sheol as a warning to other holy Watcher angels to not do that same fornication; but others did do it after the flood, and they will suffer the damnation of the "everlasting Fires that Sodom was only a warning of, to those who commit unlawful fornication with "alien/strange flesh; like the fallen angels with daughters of Adam and Adam males with Adam males, or Adam females with Adam females. Jude told us the chaining of the fallen angels was a warning against such [to other watcher angels], and the nuking of Sodom and the cities of the plain with fire and brimstone was a warning against same sex fornication to the Adam race, and a demonstration of the eternal, everlasting fires they will suffer if they do not heed the warning given through Sodom &Co, which coined for us the word "Hades"..
Dan, in Hebrew means judge/ruler. God set the Watchers over earth to judge it.
As judges, the council of the heavenly Watchers/chief angels judged Nebuchadnezzar:
Dan 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a Watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
...Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
The Seven Archangels
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#99:2
20 And these are the names of the holy angels who watch.
2Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus.
3Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men.
4Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries.
5Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos.
6Saraqael, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit.
7Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim.
8Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.
In Daniel, we see the council of the Holy Watchers warn and judge Nebucahdnezzar.
Dan 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
Enoch also tells us of the "four presenses" before the throne in heaven. One is named Penuel/Face/Presense of God. He was with Israel from the beginning, as the presense/face of God.
He is "The Angel of the Bush", was with Israel in the forty years from coming out of Egypt to the entry into Canaan.
Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Exo 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, and THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE]B/] saved them; in His love and in His mercy He redeemed them; and He lifted them and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy; He fought against them."
There's lots more, but surely you can go on a search now, with just this beginning...
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The word "watcher" occurs only 3 times in Scripture and it describes the vision or dream of King Nebuchadnezzar, which Daniel told him the meaning of. Everything else you listed comes from Books which are NOT in Scripture. It reminds me of Brother Shambauch's angels which he says follow him around all the time. He said he named them Goodness and Mercy since the Bible says that goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life. Psa 23:6
IOW, they are NOT meant to describe physical beings, but dreams or visions which happen when one awakens from sleep. The word watcher comes from "waking up" and Enoch stretches the meaning to the fringe. The Angel of the Lord is Jesus in the O.T. Amen?
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yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
The Spirit of Christ was in them, and with them, but Jesus was hidden in the
Father in heaven, who sits on the throne, until the incarnation. I was brought up on the idea that the Angel of YHWH in OT was pre-incarnate Jesus, but that is not what is actually there, when you study.
There is more than one "angel of YHWH" in the OT, and not all of them are "The Angel of His Presence/Face", as Penuel is, who is described by Enoch.
God is come in flesh. That flesh is new creation flesh, but before the incarnation, the angel of the
LORD mentions are specific angels, like Penuel [spellings differ from language to language, as there are no written vowels in the original].
Aman, the passage in Daniel specifically states that the Watchers made a decree of judgment against Nebuchadnezzar.
The foundation for understanding Nebuchadnezzar's statement that he saw a "watcher", a Holy One", come down from heaven is laid in the Scripture called the Book of Enoch. Scripture means writing, and Bible means collection of books. Enoch is inspiried writing, and the foundation for the named seven chief Watcher angels is in Enoch.
Raphael is a Watcher who appeared as a man and traveled with Tobit. That is in the Bible.
Penuel is the Angel of the Face/PResence". That is clear.
The Watchers are the sons of God in Psalm 82, in the original Hebrew. The rulers/judges/princes/sons of God who stand before God and reign from heaven over earth are the same Watchers, for Enoch told us so.
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yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
Aman, you asked: "Then please explain who fell from Heaven IF it wasn't satan: Isa 14:12"
The passage explains itself, in context to the Scriptures that speak of the same matter.
The dead, fallen spirit/nature/force called Adam, which brings to fruit the individual seed from the loins of the male Adam in it's pre-ordained season as it is written for each Adam soul in the book of Life is addressed in particular Adam souls in Ezekiel 28 and in Isaiah 14.
It states that, in the original language.
It is Adam who was in the Mount of God, in Eden, and who was cast down to the earth out of Paradise in the third heaven.
Adam was created "Adam, son of God" [Luke 3:33; Psalm 82:7 -in the Hebrew] and made male and female to bring forth the seed created in his loins and named in the Book of Life, in their pre-ordained season, so as to "build up Zion of the Spirit, above", which is the City of God above, and to bring forth the building stones [the seed of the Adam race, as sons of God; Malachi 2:15], as a temple not made with hands for the Glory to indwell.
So the Adam spirit in a particular Adam soul -the king of Tyre- is addressed in Ezekiel 28, and in Isaiah 14. The entire race bears the guilt of the rebellion of the first father of our race, and only one who is born again in Christ is covered by the Atonement and made alive by adoption into the New Man One Living Spirit, and is allowed to ascend into the Holy Mount of God, which is Mount Zion in the third stretched out story of the Heavens, where Paradise is.
In Psalm 82, in an assembly of the sons of God in heaven, God stands in the congregation of the ben Elohym, the congregation of the "El", and judges them. He warns them that if they do not bring forth justice over the earth which they are set as judges and princes/rulers, [that they will die like Adam, the one prince/sar/son of God.
God tells them they are sons of the Most High, but will die and be cast down, fall/naphal, like Adam, the one sar/prince.
Look at the Hebrew and see. God warns the judges they will die like Adam, former son of God, and be cast out, like that one sar/prince.
In Isaiah 14, the light bearer was Adam, and when he died in spirit, he lost the glory of the light in him.
We have to be born again in Christ to bear the Light in the New Man name. We will shine like the stars, says Daniel -and Enoch. We will be glorified. Adam lost it and was cast down from Eden, God's Holy Mount.
Satan is the king of the Pit/the belly of the earth, and he -the evil spirit, a Satan called Corruption, has authority to "eat the dust/all flesh" of the "sold into death and corruption Adam" kingdom. The flesh of Adam and the flesh/dust of every created thing on earth is "eaten" by the evil spirit of death and corruption, since God gave him and his hosts the legal authority to "go in the belly/pit of the earth", and "eat dust/flesh" of all living creatures.
You asked how a spirit can eat flesh, God told the evil angels they could corrupt/eat flesh/dust, when Adam sold his kingdom by sinning against God's one command because he was tempted to believe a lie, and got cast down from the third heaven/Paradise, to earth below, and divorced from the Spirit of Life/the Father of Glory.
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The passage explains itself, in context to the Scriptures that speak of the same matter.
The dead, fallen spirit/nature/force called Adam, which brings to fruit the individual seed from the loins of the male Adam in it's pre-ordained season as it is written for each Adam soul in the book of Life is addressed in particular Adam souls in Ezekiel 28 and in Isaiah 14.
It states that, in the original language.
It is Adam who was in the Mount of God, in Eden, and who was cast down to the earth out of Paradise in the third heaven.
Adam was created "Adam, son of God" [Luke 3:33; Psalm 82:7 -in the Hebrew] and made male and female to bring forth the seed created in his loins and named in the Book of Life, in their pre-ordained season, so as to "build up Zion of the Spirit, above", which is the City of God above, and to bring forth the building stones [the seed of the Adam race, as sons of God; Malachi 2:15], as a temple not made with hands for the Glory to indwell.
So the Adam spirit in a particular Adam soul -the king of Tyre- is addressed in Ezekiel 28, and in Isaiah 14. The entire race bears the guilt of the rebellion of the first father of our race, and only one who is born again in Christ is covered by the Atonement and made alive by adoption into the New Man One Living Spirit, and is allowed to ascend into the Holy Mount of God, which is Mount Zion in the third stretched out story of the Heavens, where Paradise is.
In Psalm 82, in an assembly of the sons of God in heaven, God stands in the congregation of the ben Elohym, the congregation of the "El", and judges them. He warns them that if they do not bring forth justice over the earth which they are set as judges and princes/rulers, [that they will die like Adam, the one prince/sar/son of God.
God tells them they are sons of the Most High, but will die and be cast down, fall/naphal, like Adam, the one sar/prince.
Look at the Hebrew and see. God warns the judges they will die like Adam, former son of God, and be cast out, like that one sar/prince.
In Isaiah 14, the light bearer was Adam, and when he died in spirit, he lost the glory of the light in him.
We have to be born again in Christ to bear the Light in the New Man name. We will shine like the stars, says Daniel -and Enoch. We will be glorified. Adam lost it and was cast down from Eden, God's Holy Mount.
Satan is the king of the Pit/the belly of the earth, and he -the evil spirit, a Satan called Corruption, has authority to "eat the dust/all flesh" of the "sold into death and corruption Adam" kingdom. The flesh of Adam and the flesh/dust of every created thing on earth is "eaten" by the evil spirit of death and corruption, since God gave him and his hosts the legal authority to "go in the belly/pit of the earth", and "eat dust/flesh" of all living creatures.
You asked how a spirit can eat flesh, God told the evil angels they could corrupt/eat flesh/dust, when Adam sold his kingdom by sinning against God's one command because he was tempted to believe a lie, and got cast down from the third heaven/Paradise, to earth below, and divorced from the Spirit of Life/the Father of Glory.
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Sorry, but you don't seem to know that Jesus is the Light of the first Day, nor that Adam was born again Spiritually and Eternally. Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
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yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
I write a lot on here, so you can check out my posts.
I am a born again in Christ, water baptized, Holy Spirit baptized, marrried 52 years to one husband, female, Gentile believer in the Messiah, Yeshua, who is God come in flesh of second man creation.
Jesus is the Christ come in flesh, and Christ is the Light that lights every man that comes into the world, in the hopes that they may seek God, and seeking, find.
Before He was come in flesh, He was to come, but was hidden with God, and was God.
So the Angel of YHWH called Penuel/the face/presence of God, was not Jesus.
The Light created on day 1 is not Jesus.
Jesus is not created, but always was, and always was hidden in God the Father and was to come, and God the Father sits on a created throne in the created heavens in the created temple set in the created sun, and Adam was made in His very own bodily image.
That is Bible teaching, but you have to go to it and study it to see it..It is not hidden, but English translators do garble the plain Hebrew.
Please do not cast accusations of being "JW" upon me, for you only show that you do not even know JW doctrine. I do, and I witness to JW's with the love of Jesus for their soul, whenever I am given the opportunity by the Holy Spirit to meet one out in public, because they avoid my home, since I know the Bible and know their doctrine and can show them Jesus is God -if they will receive it.
I am a born again in Christ, water baptized, Holy Spirit baptized, marrried 52 years to one husband, female, Gentile believer in the Messiah, Yeshua, who is God come in flesh of second man creation.
Jesus is the Christ come in flesh, and Christ is the Light that lights every man that comes into the world, in the hopes that they may seek God, and seeking, find.
Before He was come in flesh, He was to come, but was hidden with God, and was God.
So the Angel of YHWH called Penuel/the face/presence of God, was not Jesus.
The Light created on day 1 is not Jesus.
Jesus is not created, but always was, and always was hidden in God the Father and was to come, and God the Father sits on a created throne in the created heavens in the created temple set in the created sun, and Adam was made in His very own bodily image.
That is Bible teaching, but you have to go to it and study it to see it..It is not hidden, but English translators do garble the plain Hebrew.
Please do not cast accusations of being "JW" upon me, for you only show that you do not even know JW doctrine. I do, and I witness to JW's with the love of Jesus for their soul, whenever I am given the opportunity by the Holy Spirit to meet one out in public, because they avoid my home, since I know the Bible and know their doctrine and can show them Jesus is God -if they will receive it.
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