2 more school (college) shootings right now. Texas and Arizona.

[Erose]

We do a pretty good job of managing vehicle ownership through multiple sales and registrations, ditto real estate. With a relatively simple, largely automated system, we could track all firearms. It's just a big, electronic card catalogue.

Yep it is working well now isn't it?

 

[MikeK]

Yep it is working well now isn't it?

No, it isn't, because it doesn't exist. There is not registration program (barring machineguns, penguins and the like) for firearms today. If we had one, we could do a much better job of keeping guns aways from lunatics and felons.

 

[Erose]

Can we do both, study murderers and what makes them tick and strengthen our gun laws in the areas of background checks and registration, concurrently?

The gun laws are already in place, obviously the problem is enforcing them. You can make all the laws you want, but if you can't enforce them what good is it?

 

[Erose]

No, it isn't, because it doesn't exist. There is not registration program (barring machineguns, penguins and the like) for firearms today. If we had one, we could do a much better job of keeping guns aways from lunatics and felons.

How? If a criminal wants a gun, all they got to do is steal one. The only people who are going to register guns... maybe... are law abiding citizens. Everyone else are going to ignore the law. People drive cars so these are out in the open and easier to enforce. Same as real estate. Guns are easily hidden. What you are you going to do? Invade every home and see who has what guns? You are asking for a law that is impossible to enforce, without violating people's basic rights; and even if you are willing to violate people's basic rights, I don't think it is even possible then.

 

[MikeK]

Under current law, it is very difficult to prosecute those who illegally traffic guns. "I sold it to some guy" and "I bought it from some guy" are effective defences today for not having a gun you bought new and for how you obtained a stolen firearm. A registration system would empower our law enforcement agents to effectively prosecute privates dealers who cater to bardo wells and straw-buyers, something that is very difficult to do today. I'm not advocating for searching random homes, I'm advicating for a system that makes it possible to enforce current laws.

 

[Erose]

Under current law, it is very difficult to prosecute those who illegally traffic guns. "I sold it to some guy" and "I bought it from some guy" are effective defences today for not having a gun you bought new and for how you obtained a stolen firearm. A registration system would empower our law enforcement agents to effectively prosecute privates dealers who cater to bardo wells and straw-buyers, something that is very difficult to do today.

No what it would do is send innocent people to jail. Besides all you got to do if you decide to sell your gun(s) under the table is file a report with the police claiming that they were stolen.

 

[MikeK]

No what it would do is send innocent people to jail. Besides all you got to do if you decide to sell your gun(s) under the table is file a report with the police claiming that they were stolen.

Which innocent people would it send to jail?

A stolen report, faked, is a better lead than no paper trail at all is, and that is what exists today.

 

[benedictaoo]

That doesn't answer the root "why" that I was getting at. Why doesn't this happen as often per capita in Belgium? In Japan?

Because other countries take care of the mentally ill unlike us.

 

[MikeK]

Because other countries take care of the mentally ill unlike us.

I agree with you that these countries have far better healthcare systems (single payer) than ours does. Shall we adopt such a system here?

 

[benedictaoo]

Because other countries take care of the mentally ill unlike us.

And they don't have the media, liberal rhetoric, and Obama on purpose inciting them, who are mentally ill.

 

[Erose]

Which innocent people would it send to jail?

A stolen report, faked, is a better lead than no paper trail at all is, and that is what exists today.

Those who had already sold their guns before the law is instituted. Or those who have given guns as gifts. Or those who had guns stolen that didn't know about it.

 

[Erose]

I agree with you that these countries have far better healthcare systems (single payer) than ours does. Shall we adopt such a system here?

Mental healthcare.

 

[Erose]

I'm still curious how you would enforce registration laws if they were put on the books.

 

[Fantine]

Every mental formation--anger, jealousy, despair, etc.--is sensitive to mindfulness the way all vegetation is sensitive to sunshine. By cultivating the energy of mindfulness, you can heal your body and your consciousness. - Thich Nhat Hanh

Maybe America's problem is too many gun-carrying "Christians" and not enough peace-loving Buddhists...

No wonder why online courses have become so popular!

 

[Erose]

What a weird comment. If you don't like freedom, perhaps another country would be a better place to live.

 

[MikeK]

Those who had already sold their guns before the law is instituted. Or those who have given guns as gifts. Or those who had guns stolen that didn't know about it.

None of those people would be sent to jail under such a law. Did people get sent to jail for those things when we started requiring registration for cars and boats and VHF radios and pets?

 

[MikeK]

I'm still curious how you would enforce registration laws if they were put on the books.

The same way we do with cars, and class three firearms. The same way virtually every other country that allows civilian gun ownership does.

 

[Fantine]

What a weird comment. If you don't like freedom, perhaps another country would be a better place to live.

How free can a person feel if (s)he is surrounded by gun-toting strangers wherever (s)he goes? How free can a gun-carrying person feel if (s)he feels compelled to be armed because (s)he is surrounded with gun-toting strangers wherever (s)he goes?

How free a country do we have when so many Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that they need to carry guns to be safe?

So I have a response: If you feel that you have to be your own one-man police department and army, perhaps you should have been born in another century.

 

[MikeK]

Mental healthcare.

Why only mental healthcare? Insufficient physical healthcare takes far more lives than insufficient mental healthcare does. Isn't our goal here to prevent loss of human life where we can?

 

[tadoflamb]

I think that whatever environmental triggers that create potential mass murderers has increased. I'm assuming that there has been a study to determine what these could be; but then again most MMs are murder/suicides. So maybe they have been unable to do so.

Our society is getting much better at producing men and women who have mental disorders. If the government is going to throw money at this problem, I think they need to finance studies to figure out what makes a mass murderer, and then perhaps we can come up with a solution.

Personally, I think it's the gun culture that's perpetuating the problem. Before each of these mass murderers became mass murderers, they were simply gun lovers practicing their 2nd Amendment rights. I don't think one needs to consider only mass shootings to realize gun culture is sick. I'll give you a number of personal and local examples.


Last Labor Day weekend while camping in a heavily populated area in the woods at dark, somebody starting discharging a large number of rounds.

In Phoenix, someone is taking pot shots at cars on the freeways.

As I previously reported, our public lands are being trashed by wildcat shooters.

Then there's the poachers.

South of here, in Sierra Vista, a local birder photographed a man assisting his young son in shooting juvenile owls.

Local gun lovers have set up another wildcat shooting site right next to a busy and popular highway. While passing it recently, my wife said startled, "Did I just hear a gunshot?".

Local gun lovers have taken to making a display of arms en masse in local restaurants.

And then this, an armed protest outside an Islamic center in Phoenix:

You see? Behind all these examples of bad behavior is a gun lover.

In the spirit of a well-regulated militia, I think gun lovers need to find a way to regulate themselves.