Do you do as GOD and Jesus did or as man directs?

Lulav said:

yes, some people make a difference. Yet the words of Jesus must not change the words of
G-d, so says G-d so if G-d says something is his law Jesus would not change it.

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The words of Jesus must not change the words of God?

Lulav said:

Yes, I've just started a new thread which goes in depth about this.

New Thread - Was Jesus a false Prophet?

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Not interested. I am merely pointing out that you consistently speak of Jesus as if He is not Himself God. The words of Jesus are the words of God.

Lulav said:

Exactly what I try to explain in that thread. I'm sorry you are not interested in discussing the truth.

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You tried to explain how you treat Jesus as if He is not God?

The thread states that if Jesus is truly at war with God's Commandments, at War with scripture, At war with the Word of God - then he would be a little 'g' God at war with the big "G" Creator God. But "At war with God" is not how the Bible describes Jesus.

Wordkeeper said:

The requirements of the old covenant was to observe ALL the law leading to failure and need to ask God for mercy

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A good portion of the Law was what to do if you did stumble. Breaking a commandment was built into the fabric of the Torah.

BobRyan said:

The thread states that if Jesus is truly at war with God's Commandments, at War with scripture, At war with the Word of God - then he would be a little 'g' God at war with the big "G" Creator God. But "At war with God" is not how the Bible describes Jesus.

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Sounds like a good thread.

Hebrews 10:1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Open Heart said:

A good portion of the Law was what to do if you did stumble. Breaking a commandment was built into the fabric of the Torah.

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Wordkeeper said:

Repent and be justified. Repent and be sanctified. Make the tree good and the fruit will be good. This is how the law is upheld. This is the greater glory of the new covenant.

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Indeed - "repent" - of sin and in the NT - "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"Shall we sin?" Romans 6 - answers emphatically "no!" saying that to yield to sin (transgression of the law) is to be enslaved to it.

And of Course Christ - God the Son is "God at Sinai" giving the Ten Commandments -- the covenant written in stone.

Hebrews 8
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


John 14:10
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

Wordkeeper said:

Hebrews 10:1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

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Sacrificial system - ceremonial law "he takes away the first to establish the second" Heb 10

Wordkeeper said:

Please explain what is meant by the lesser glory of the law and the greater glory of the covenant of grace.

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Law external on stone only -vs Law written on the "Mind and heart" -- New Covenant made "with the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah" Heb 8:6-10 by Christ who gave us His Ten Commandments on Sinai.

BobRyan said:

Law external on stone only -vs Law written on the "Mind and heart" -- New Covenant made "with the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah" Heb 8:6-10 by Christ who gave us His Ten Commandments on Sinai.

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Whew! That is a real relief. Now I don't have to worry about things not covered by the Ten.

Wordkeeper said:

Hebrews 10:1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

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How does this negate what I said?

What does written on the heart mean?

How is it different from written on stone?

BobRyan said:

Law external on stone only -vs Law written on the "Mind and heart" -- New Covenant made "with the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah" Heb 8:6-10 by Christ who gave us His Ten Commandments on Sinai.

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Open Heart said:

How does this negate what I said?

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Many commentaries teach that no one was saved under the Sinaitic Law.

As many teach that salvation was built into it.

The truth is that both are wrong. Do you agree?

Wordkeeper said:

What does written on the heart mean?

How is it different from written on stone?

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Written in stone means we have to be told/taught the moral law or the things of God. Written on our hearts means that we instinctively know these things, that there is no longer any need of teachers. I don't know about you, but I still need the written law. I don't think the law will be fully written on my heart until Christ returns.

Open Heart said:

Written in stone means we have to be told/al law or the things of God. Written on our hearts means that we instinctively know these things, that there is no longer any need of teachers. I don't know about you, but I still need the written law. I don't think the law will be fully written on my heart until Christ returns.

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That is the normal, fleshly view.

However, the Holy Spirit reveals this:

Traffic rules ensure no harm comes to road users. However, red lights can stop an ambulance from reaching the hospital in time, from life saving treatment. Here the rule is actually CAUSING HARM. Jesus equates this to the Sabbath law causing harm by preventing a person from being treated.

When the law is written on a person's heart, it means he is the lord of the sabbath, has DISCRETIONARY POWERS, can decide if a rule can be suspended to BE BENEFICIAL, just as circumcising on the Sabbath, or eating the shew bread.

Matt 5 Christ condemns the idea that His work is to set aside the Law of God or diminish it in any way.