Checkmate, Atheists

JasonClark said:

How long has your god been a Person?

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God has always been described as such because it's the easiest and simplest way for the human mind to wrap itself around the concept... We make God in our own image.

Which inevitably means that when people invariably attempt to literalize the abstract, "easy and simple" become conflated with "correct."

I wonder how many others see their god as a Person? is that where the idea of "A magic man in the sky" came from?

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Pretty much -- The notion of a miracle-working deity from outside the universe, influencing it but not part of it -- has been with us for a long time.

LACanuck said:

Not sure how it proves that science *can't* deal with four dimension. As I said, being able to create a coherent theory that uses 11 dimensions, have that theory make predictions and have those predictions not pan out is a significant part of the scientific method. So being able to say that SUSY is no longer viable is *exactly* dealing with multiple dimensions.

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No SUSY is a theory that used multiple dimensions and the scientific method falsified it. As you said "have that theory make predictions and have those predictions not pan out is a significant part of the scientific method." Which it is indeed - and SUSY theory dealing with more than 3 dimensions failed it's first prime test. So saying that SUSY is no longer viable shows that no models beyond the standard model have met any of those scientific methods and are falsified.

VirOptimus said:

Its just to show that mathematicly a 4:th (or really, a n:th) dimension is trivial to represent and therefore not beyond what science can handle. F.ex. there are n:th dimensional geometric figueres in mathematics.

Now, if you by 4:th dimension means a 4:th spatial dimension then thats something else obviously.

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There are lots of things in mathematics - but mathematics is not reality - it's symbols on a piece of paper. Have you ever seen more than 3 dimensions? And BTW, even those three dimensions are nothing more than distances plotted in space on an x, y, z axis. And not one single one of those n:th dimensional geometric figures in mathematics has ever been observed in reality, just on a computer screen - which is two dimensional.

EDIT: corrected one to two.

And every n:th dimensional geometric object is plotted in an x, y, z axis in a 3 dimensional space. None were plotted using a 6th dimension, etc.

AV1611VET said:

So you're saying your god is in your mirror?

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Isn't yours?

TLK Valentine said:

Isn't yours?

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Definitely - because He is in every single atom that exists. He's in my dog too, my cat and you.

E=mc^2.

Justatruthseeker said:

There are lots of things in mathematics - but mathematics is not reality - it's symbols on a piece of paper. Have you ever seen more than 3 dimensions? And BTW, even those three dimensions are nothing more than distances plotted in space on an x, y, z axis. And not one single one of those n:th dimensional geometric figures in mathematics has ever been observed in reality, just on a computer screen - which is two dimensional.

EDIT: corrected one to two.

And every n:th dimensional geometric object is plotted in an x, y, z axis in a 3 dimensional space. None were plotted using a 6th dimension, etc.

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I think that the point of my post went over your head.

AV1611VET said:

What would "my god" be doing in your mirror?

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Learning, one would assume.

VirOptimus said:

I think that the point of my post went over your head.

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No, the point of your post was to imply more than 3 dimension might exist because we have mathematics that has geometric shapes in more than 3 dimensions. Your point was understood and answered. And in each of those geometric shapes - the points were plotted in 3 dimensional space.

Justatruthseeker said:

No, the point of your post was to imply more than 3 dimension might exist because we have mathematics that has geometric shapes in more than 3 dimensions. Your point was understood and answered. And in each of those geometric shapes - the points were plotted in 3 dimensional space.

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As I said, the point went over your head, read the whole debate.

VirOptimus said:

As I said, the point went over your head, read the whole debate.

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The debate is whether more than 3 dimensions exist. The point is not in the slightest chance.

The point is that no matter what the math says - those geometric shapes are all drawn using 3 dimensions - not 4, not 5, not 11 or more.

The real point is not one example can be given of more than 3 dimensions.

AV1611VET said:

Who is the only Person that can exist without being created?

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The First Cause in "Cause and effect."

Justatruthseeker said:

The debate is whether more than 3 dimensions exist. The point is not in the slightest chance.

The point is that no matter what the math says - those geometric shapes are all drawn using 3 dimensions - not 4, not 5, not 11 or more.

The real point is not one example can be given of more than 3 dimensions.

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But that wasnt my point, its AV who speaks about more spatial dimensions, Im just showing him that the science wouldnt have problems handling that. So turn your posts at him.

GillDouglas said:

How could the author exist only within the story, and not outside of it? God, the author of this world, is not restrained by the laws in which He created.

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God isn't a biblical author, but rather a character within it and nothing more. One can easily write something in the perspective of a fictional character.

AV1611VET said:

Who is the only Person that can exist without being created?

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Ummm......GOD/JESUS?

Isa 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Rev 22:
13“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
16 I Jesus have sent My messenger to testify unto you these things in the Assemblies.
I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Checkmate?! What are you playing, pigeon chess?

"Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon -- it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory." --- S. D. Weitzenhoffer

AV1611VET said:

Who is the only Person that can exist without being created?

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AV you know, as well as me, it is explain in detail in biology textbooks under the title "reproduction" how people are "created" - the short version is; cells makes more cells. The Stork Theory, and every other attempt to explain people as "created" beings, are dead AV. Or did you meant the person to be God? IF so, then the answer might be imagination. And we have good reason to think imagination is the case as well. Is there any factual evidence you like to present that shows how a person can exists without have been "manufactured" in some way? If not, I have hard to see what this kind of theological investigations has to do with life-science and evolution.