Why do some Christians believe homosexual sin is worse than others?

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2X4

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I'm sorry, this person has to be trolling. There is no way they have studied hermeneutics, and "seem" to be intentionally misquoting scripture. So yeah, I'm calling that out.

Also, which rule did I abuse? I will gladly edit my post if you can show me. :)

The unspiritual man has to use hermeneutics to try connect scriptures with scriptures to try make sense out of what they're reading in the Bible. A spiritual man listens to the voice of God and obeys ALL His commandments to learn everything in Christ. God will guide the spiritual man to the prophecies to prove to the man that his testimonies of the knowledge of Christ are true and accurate.
 
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redleghunter

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Note, I'm not defending any doctrine here... just pointing out the poor use of scripture.

I mean, I don't think I have heard a Biblical scholar suggest in Romans 1 Christ is teaching us that all homosexuality is a choice... I'm sorry, that's a first for me.
What does your church teach on homosexual church members?

Could you also lay out for us why you think the NT embraces your views homosexual unions are permissible?
 
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Tetra

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The unspiritual man has to use hermeneutics to try connect scriptures with scriptures to try make sense out of what they're reading in the Bible. A spiritual man listens to the voice of God and obeys ALL His commandments to learn everything in Christ. God will guide the spiritual man to the prophecies to prove to the man that his testimonies of the knowledge of Christ are true and accurate.
Never read that in the Bible...
 
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Tetra

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What does your church teach on homosexual church members?

Could you also lay out for us why you think the NT embraces your views homosexual unions are permissible?
Can you please direct me to where I said homosexual unions are permissible? Much appreciated. :)

(In fact, I have made sure not to express an opinion either way.)
 
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Kenny'sID

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I don't recall making any explicit doctrinal claims in this thread. I suppose I just inferred you may have been talking to me, I realize not everything is about me, and apologize.

Apology accepted but absolutely unnecessary. :)

I honestly believe it was an intentional misinterpretation to make one's worldview coherent. I don't know if it's the case, but it seems that way for sure.

I'll step away fro that one for the moment anyway, and leave it between you and them.
 
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redleghunter

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Can you please direct me to where I said homosexual unions are permissible? Much appreciated. :)

(In fact, I have made sure not to express an opinion either way.)
Then what are your views on Scriptures which clearly call homosexual relations an abomination?

If such has changed since written, please explain how.
 
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Tetra

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Then what are your views on Scriptures which clearly call homosexual relations an abomination?

If such has changed since written, please explain how.
Well, I think if you're gonna make the claim I said it's permissible... you should show that I did. I mean, I rarely make claims people said stuff unless I have proof to show that it's the case.

However, I will not express my opinion either way on this topic.
 
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2X4

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Never read that in the Bible...

You never heard the voice of God speaking into your Mind, either. Without hearing the voice of God and obeying ALL His commandments, it's impossible for you to understand anything written in the Bible.
 
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aiki

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Romans 1 Christ is teaching us that all homosexuality is a choice... I'm sorry, that's a first for me.

Well, PGL is right to point to Romans 1 as an example of people consciously choosing to turn from the natural divine order of things sexually to the sin of homosexual perversion.

Romans 1:21-23
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.


This is where the sin of homosexuality - and every other sin, really - begins. The choice isn't initially for homosexuality but for the rejection of God. And this choice to turn away from God - subtly or overtly - always leads into darkness and moral corruption.

Romans 1:24, 25
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Those who persist in their rebellion toward God and are determined to worship themselves rather than Him are finally given over by God to the consequences of their choice to rebel. And when this happens, the direction of the sinner's rebellion takes them into "uncleanness" and "lust" and the "dishonoring" of their bodies with each other.

Romans 1:26, 27
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.


The full fruit of the sinner's choice to reject God is gross perversion. In this case, homosexuality. In others, it might be pedophilia, or inappropriate behavior with animals, or worse. Whatever the case, though, the sinner's perversion is fundamentally a manifestation of a choice to turn from God to serve oneself.

Am I saying this is the sum total of how homosexuality develops in every case? No. Other factors play a role as well: personality, family, friends, culture, sexual abuse - these may all contribute to homosexuality in some measure, too. But at root, whatever factors may converge upon the individual to dispose them to this particular sin, yielding to it is always fundamentally a choice to contravene the divine design for human sexuality and to reject the Author of that design.

Selah.
 
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2X4

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Well, PGL is right to point to Romans 1 as an example of people consciously choosing to turn from the natural divine order of things sexually to the sin of homosexual perversion.

Romans 1:21-23
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.


This is where the sin of homosexuality - and every other sin, really - begins. The choice isn't initially for homosexuality but for the rejection of God. And this choice to turn away from God - subtly or overtly - always leads into darkness and moral corruption.

Romans 1:24, 25
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Those who persist in their rebellion toward God and are determined to worship themselves rather than Him are finally given over by God to the consequences of their choice to rebel. And when this happens, the direction of the sinner's rebellion takes them into "uncleanness" and "lust" and the "dishonoring" of their bodies with each other.

Romans 1:26, 27
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.


The full fruit of the sinner's choice to reject God is gross perversion. In this case, homosexuality. In others, it might be pedophilia, or inappropriate behavior with animals, or worse. Whatever the case, though, the sinner's perversion is fundamentally a manifestation of a choice to turn from God to serve oneself.

Am I saying this is the sum total of how homosexuality develops in every case? No. Other factors play a role as well: personality, family, friends, culture, sexual abuse - these may all contribute to homosexuality in some measure, too. But at root, whatever factors may converge upon the individual to dispose them to this particular sin, yielding to it is always fundamentally a choice to contravene the divine design for human sexuality and to reject the Author of that design.

Selah.

John 15
16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
 
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Tinyarch

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I suppose the difference is that adultery and fornication require action. Being a homosexual does not. So while having it be a "choice" is possible, I don't think it's probable. I mean, I don't recall "choosing" being a heterosexual.
Being attracted to a body type does not make a person heterosexual or homosexual. It does mean that we choose to obey God and his commands regarding sexual purity...or we don't.
Every person has their own personal temptations that are unique to them because our sin nature is bound up with our being.
Ultimately the choice is whether we will choose the pleasure of sin or the discipline of obedience.
God tells us as Christians that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. God also tells us not to keep on sinning so that grace may abound.
 
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Tinyarch

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I'm confused here, you realize you don't have to do anything to be a homosexual right? Being a homosexual is simply finding the same-sex sexually attractive, it requires no "doing".
No. You are wrong. Attraction does not equal homosexual or heterosexual. You are holding to a false definition.
 
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Neogaia777

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I'm a Christian, and believe that gay sexual homosexual acts are a sin, it's lust out of control, not love... However, I also believe that abnormal heterosexual sexual acts, beyond the normal sexual use intended by nature, is also sin, and that it pure lust and not love... I also believe that almost everyone nowaday's sexual acts are sin... I believe that, if they're only because of primal, selfish, lustful urges only, or ego driven, which most are, especially with men, but now more women too, my opinion is that this is really what it most actually is in most cases, including being honest about my own past experiences... Most are deceived, as I was, into thinking it was because of love, but, most usually, it's really not, it's just lust...

That being said, it's all the sin of "lust"... And not real, true, "love"... Real true love to me, is loving and taking care of a mate who's very sick, paralyzed, or terminally ill... To me, these are examples of expressions of Agape Love, cause it includes serving and sacrifice, even if you have to change their diapers for life, and loving them, under these conditions, and never, hurting, mistreating or abusing them, but loving them in these kinds of conditions down to the very end, even if or when they get temper-mental, is one of the highest forms of love to me... No sexual acts can compare to this, their totally different...

That being said, Two years ago, I had to go live with my 89 year old grandfather, and, one of my older cousins, who was gay, and had mental health issues that he wouldn't acknowledge or get or seek help for, anyways, I went to go stay with him/them, and three days after I did, my grandpa fell and had to go to the hospital and broke his hip, they had to do surgery, even though they didn't want to cause they didn't think he could handle another surgery at his age and with his health problems at his age, and it turned out he couldn't...

Anyways, After about a month in the hospital, trying to rehabilitate him, which wasn't going well, he wanted to die at home, and everyone knew that, so, he got sent back home, where I and my homosexual cousin was staying, and had to be on hospice till three months later, when he died... Me, my cousin, and one of my aunts who used to be a nurse had to take care of him till he died, feed him, change him, wash him, the whole bit... Going through that and dealing with my very unstable emotionally gay cousin, taught me a lot, about love, and love for homosexual's...

That was about a year or more ago... My cousin and I had developed a relationship with each other during that time, and it wasn't easy for me with my belief's... But, I learned how to have compassion for him and even did my best to help him and advise him, not about being gay, but with his unstable emotions and, well, basically dealing with life, issues... We even would hug each other, and I'm not gay... It taught me a lot...

About a year to six month's ago, I wound up homeless and was staying at a local mission, I now have my own apartment... But, while I was staying there, there came along this gay guy, who couldn't hide it, nor tried to anyway, cause his voice gave him away... Anyways, he would try to talk to people, and nobody would talk to or with him, or the ones that would, would make and poke fun at him and crack jokes... I don't ever do that, but, I felt sorry for him... So, when he came up to me and tried talking to me, I talked with him like he was just another person and didn't treat him any different or crack jokes either...

We became friends... I tried to advise and help him with life issues and emotions just like I had done prior with my cousin... I treated him like a little brother who was gay...

But, as time went on, he did a few things that I thought was inappropriate to do, and, I wrote him this letter:

"What's this I hear about you about to get 86'ed from this place for "abuse of services" calling the ambulance unnecessarily too many times? There could be some truth to that... You could be a bit of a hypochondriac, and possibly a drug seeker too, like they are thinking you are... I think it's for the attention you seek and seem to need in your life... You could be blowing-up or over-exaggerating your problems just to get the kind of attention you want and seem to "need"... Like a woman..."

"I'm not trying to be mean, and, I'm not saying this cause your a homosexual either, male or female, gay or straight, doesn't matter... It's just that, I've met your type before... Why does your type seem to require so damn much attention...? I'm betting your not very good or fine on your own, or alone, are you...? I'm trying to "help" you... I've tried to get you to be more responsible, grown-up, and mature... I've tried and am trying to, light a fire under your butt with this in mind... You need to get more serious in life and in looking out for and taking care of number one in your life, and, stop expecting or wanting everyone else to feel for you or with you... Because, in the end, in your situation especially, they just "won't", so, stop expecting them too..."

"You have an income, most people here do not... You could take care of your own self and get your own self set-up in life if you really wanted to, and got serious about it, which I've been trying to get you to do... Another thing, male or female, gay or straight, most people, especially most heterosexual men, like myself, have a "bubble" of personal space around them, that they don't like violated, without inviting someone into it... It's an unsaid boundary and line with most people that shouldn't be crossed... Yet, you, and those like you do not respect that and it needs to be respected..."

"Other, many other, unsaid lines of personal boundaries that many people have, myself included, are "crossed" and not respected by people like you and your kind that really do need to be respected and thought of, and considered by people like you and your kind... Another thing; you and those like you are "unstable"... Your really "up" and "high" and very happy one moment, then, in the next, your very "down" and "low" and despondent and depressed in the next, like a roller-coaster ride...? Don't you get tired of that? I know many heterosexual men, like me, definitely do... Reminds me of my ex-wife... Men are supposed to be more stable, grown-up, and mature in this way, in my view and opinion of what a man is anyway... Different than say, most women, or "feminine dominant" people, instead of "masculine dominant" people, like myself, are..."

"I don't like unstable people... They freak me out sometimes, I think they're dangerous... And, I don't like the roller-coaster ride...? Do you...? You need to "slap yourself", wake-up and start being more grown-up, mature, and responsible and stop craving or needing attention so much, or else I fear what will happen to you and you should as well..."

I'm not saying this to be mean, but to help you... I say it cause I care... I hope you can see that...? It's time to "wake-up"...

God Bless!

He didn't talk to me and avoided me for a couple days, and he seemed to step a little more lightly around me after that when he did... He was only there for about a month and a half, then he went to a different town...

I wrote him another letter when he did something I thought was inappropriate and not respecting people's boundaries and I'll share that one too if you want me too...

But for now, cause I don't want to type more right now, there's this one...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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About the cake business issue... We all know that many businesses quote their right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, but, would a business get in trouble for refusing service to someone cause they were black, for example...? If they would, should that then apply also to sexual orientation...?

If I were the business owner and I was totally against gay marriage, then I'd make the cake with the stipulation that I wouldn't place two groom or two bride figurines atop the cake myself, and say that, what I would do is supply them with the cake and the figurines and they could do that themselves... Also, I would refuse to write anything on the cake, or do anything to the cake, that would suggest a union between two people of the same sex... And, if I was totally against it, and I'd still get in trouble for that, then, I would take it to court and suffer any consequences of that as standing up for my rights and for righteousness sake...

This all comes down to a boundary issue in my opinion... For heterosexuals and homosexuals to get along, we need to start finding out where the boundaries are or should be for both...

God Bless!
 
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BroIgnatius

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Sin has nothing to do with the action but in fact is committed within the heart long before the action.

Matthew 15:191599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false testimonies, slanders.

Being a homosexual does not require lusting and more than being a heterosexual requires lusting. Either party can refrain from the lust of the heart.

Since I guess I must clarify, being homosexual is not sin, it is in lusting or acting it out sexually that is a sin.
 
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2X4

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Being a homosexual does not require lusting and more than being a heterosexual requires lusting. Either party can refrain from the lust of the heart.

Since I guess I must clarify, being homosexual is not sin, it is in lusting or acting it out sexually that is a sin.

The ruler of this world will make you believe in your own interpretations of what you read in the Bible. In fact, the ruler of this world was the one who got unspiritual men to add their traditions and pagan doctrines to the original writings of God's servants. They even kept out most of the writings by God's servants by calling them evil gnostic writings.
 
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BroIgnatius

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About the cake business issue... We all know that many businesses quote their right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, but, would a business get in trouble for refusing service to someone cause they were black, for example...? If they would, should that then apply also to sexual orientation...?

If I were the business owner and I was totally against gay marriage, then I'd make the cake with the stipulation that I wouldn't place two groom or two bride figurines atop the cake myself, and say that, what I would do is supply them with the cake and the figurines and they could do that themselves... Also, I would refuse to write anything on the cake, or do anything to the cake, that would suggest a union between two people of the same sex... And, if I was totally against it, and I'd still get in trouble for that, then, I would take it to court and suffer any consequences of that as standing up for my rights and for righteousness sake...

This all comes down to a boundary issue in my opinion... For heterosexuals and homosexuals to get along, we need to start finding out where the boundaries are or should be for both...

God Bless!

There is a legal fiction called "public accommodation." This means that businesses open to the public have no right to refuse service. That is the basis of the lawsuits.

With that, you could still be sued by refusing to place the figurines on top, or to write what the couple wants on the cake.

From a moral theology point of view, to bake the cake at all is a problem. Having the couple place the figurines on the cake themselves doe not resolve the moral issue, any more than a man comes in to buy a gun saying he will murder someone and as long as you sell him the gun anyway, but do not put the bullets in the gun, remove you from moral culpability.
 
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BroIgnatius

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The ruler of this world will make you believe in your own interpretations of what you read in the Bible. In fact, the ruler of this world was the one who got unspiritual men to add their traditions and pagan doctrines to the original writings of God's servants. They even kept out most of the writings by God's servants by calling them evil gnostic writings.

And who is doing this?
 
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Neogaia777

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Being a homosexual does not require lusting and more than being a heterosexual requires lusting. Either party can refrain from the lust of the heart.

Since I guess I must clarify, being homosexual is not sin, it is in lusting or acting it out sexually that is a sin.
Yes, well said,

Thanks,

God Bless!
 
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ken777

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I think the following are why people make gayness seem much worse than the other sins. And like you I believe yeah it's a sin.

1. homophobia

2. The recent uh national gay marriage thing (2015) it's more of a recent blowup media phenomenon this whole LGBT thing.

3. To some it is more gross and repulsive then the others. (besides maybe murder idk)

4. Some sadly look for excuses to excuse other sins by highlighting this one.
You have failed to see that the reason so many Christians consider homosexuality a worse sin is because it is being promoted as good, to the extent that schools & businesses are compelled to comply with pro-homosexual legislation in violation of religious conscience.

Bakers, florists, photographers, musicians, etc can be fined - or even imprisoned - if they choose not to participate in same sex weddings. Churches too can be fined if they do not hire their auxiliary buildings for homosexual events.

Christian counselors in some states can be prosecuted if they provide sexually confused adolescents with help to achieve goals consistent with their religious beliefs.

In many places parents are denied the right to withdraw children from classes that promote morally objectionable homosexual material.

The sin of homosexual behavior is no worse than any other, but the consequences for society is one of the the worst anti-Christian forces we have to contend with today.
 
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