How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[Tinyarch]

Why don't you actually read chapter 18? You don't even know what it says.

In the meantime, enjoy your sour grapes.

I'm not going to play your games. I read the previous 15 pages and have a good idea that you are wrong and Marvin Knox is right. I'll let you ramble with someone else.

 

[EmSw]

I'm not going to play your games. I read the previous 15 pages and have a good idea that you are wrong and Marvin Knox is right. I'll let you ramble with someone else.

Does the truth offend you?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is the grace of God irresistible as the "I" in TULIP proclaims?

No.

What enables some men to receive the grace of God unto salvation?

Prayer.

OTOH, what prevents some men from receiving God's grace?

Sin. (hanging onto it instead of giving it up)

 

[Marvin Knox]

What stages did God go through in the creation of a "perfect Lucifer"?
the word for perfect has many definitions and can mean mature, fully grown, complete, made one from being apart, so does this "perfect" mean the same as perfect when used to describe Christ?

From all we know Lucifer was perfect from his creation. He went through no stages to achieve that status.

He remained so until iniquity was found in him.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Say what? The condition of the vessel depends on the actions of the vessel. Your lack of knowing what the Bible says is very concerning. You should know what the Bible says before opening your mouth. Tell us what is it about Jeremiah 18 that you do not understand?.........................
Do you not see that those who turn from evil will be vessels of honor, and those who do evil will be vessels of dishonor? Say what? God DID NOT make us a curse! Now you are impugning the Creator! What is it with these man-made doctrines?

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Psalm 139:13 "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb."

Get to know Deuteronomy 11:26-29 before you open your mouth.
Get to know Deuteronomy 27:1-1-26 before you pretend to know God's ways.

Those verses have absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of original sin.

Numbers 23:8
How shall I curse whom God has not cursed? And how shall I denounce whom the Lord has not denounced?
Read this! God did not make them under a curse! Curses come from sin and evil, not that sin and evil come from curses!

That passage has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of original sin.

Again, read Deuteronomy 27 to see what brings you under God's curse.

I have read it and it has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of original sin.

There is obviously no cohesiveness to your theology what-so-ever.

You just bounce around and use whatever suits your fancy and ignore what does not.

You are so far off the tracks there is no way that a teacher of the Word of God can possible find common ground on which to meet with you.

You are either a fool or a few bricks short of a full load.

That will do it for now.

 

[EmSw]

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Psalm 139:13 "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb."

Those verses have absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of original sin.

You said God made us a curse. You have absolutely gone off course.

That passage has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of original sin.

You said God made us a curse. You have absolutely gone off course.

I have read it and it has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of original sin.

You said God made us a curse. You have absolutely gone off course.

There is obviously no cohesiveness to your theology what-so-ever.

You just bounce around and use whatever suits your fancy and ignore what does not.

You are so far off the tracks there is no way that a teacher of the Word of God can possible find common ground on which to meet with you.

You said God made us a curse. You have absolutely gone off course.

You are either a fool or a few bricks short of a full load.

That will do it for now.

Thank you for your brotherly love. You will be rewarded for your kindness.

Jesus was absolutely correct - you will know them by their fruit.

 

[bling]

YHWH says HE desires obedience and not sacrifice, or more than sacrifice.
ALSO WILLINGNESS. Everyone who seeks YHWH must believe that HE EXISTS, and that HE REWARDS everyone

WHO WILLINGLY SEEKS HIM.

YHWH says without FAITH it is impossible to please YHWH.
FAITH is an active trusting relying on HIM, not sit and think "I believe.... I believe..... I believe...... I believe..... " as if the mind could produce faith.

God desiring that we do "good" stuff that will help us is not fulfilling a "need" God has, but a need we have.

 

[bling]

Simplest answer no.
But YHWH turns EVERYTHING, works ALL THINGS (good and bad) out - orchestrates everything together for good for those who love HIM and are called according to HIS PURPOSE.

Why do you have an earthly objective ? What is it ?

You say: “no” to the help curses provide man, but turn around and say: Ro. 8:28 we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

As an example: Mankind was “cursed” with death, but is death bad in and of itself?

If we did not have an “objective” there would be no reason for man to spend time on earth and would just start out in heaven, so why do we spend time on earth?

Some like to suggest our objective is to: “bring glory to God”, but do not understand how that is done or not done and what the difference is between a tree bringing glory to God by being a tree and man brining glory to God, so how does man bring glory to God and how does man not bring glory to God?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God desiring that we do "good" stuff that will help us is not fulfilling a "need" God has, but a need we have.

What was your question though. Not what YHWH needs.

God is not trying to “get” something from man (man cannot “provide” anything for God)

see HIS WORD.

YHWH says HE desires obedience and not sacrifice

Think about [Understand] this, you who forget God.
Otherwise, I will tear you apart,
and no one will ·save [protect] you.
23 Those people ·honor [glorify] me
who bring me ·offerings to show thanks [thank offerings; v. 14].
And I, God, will save those who ·do that [L go on my way/path].”
Expanded Bible (EXB)

 

[bottomofsandal]

Yet, bling explicitly said that he does not believe in original sin. There is, therefore, no specific moment where sin took place and brought God's curse. Sin, in bling's comment, is an evolution of mankind's construct over time.

Grace would, in that situation, not be needed at all. We could simply deconstruct what constitutes as sin at our own convenience.

Not believing in original sin creates a myriad of theological problems.

This truth sailed over many people's heads!


Why is grace necessary? Man is sinless...some povs allege

How can man be sinless? He works really really hard at holiness.


It has also been stated in some povs that grace is awarded to the humble.

Remember the comment about Noah "finding" grace/favor with God?


Now we know why some povs say grace can be resisted.

Grace is resisted when it is never created. Grace is "manufactured".

God gives grace to the humble. So only those able to humble themselves have grace?


Kinda throws out the whole unmerited, undeserving aspect of grace-

So then, some actually deserve grace because they are so doggone humble!

 

[bling]

Why do you deny that Adam and Eve's sin was the original sin?

I said specifically in post 1530: "Adam and Eve were the first humans to sin, what I am talking about is the doctrine of "Original Sin".
I never suggested God is responsible for Adam and Eve sinning?"
It would be the first or "original" sin in that respect, but that does not automatically lead to all the doctrine associated around this sin.

 

[EmSw]

God desiring that we do "good" stuff that will help us is not fulfilling a "need" God has, but a need we have.

Doing good to others is fulfilling a need others have.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

how does man not bring glory to God?

Do you want examples ?

 

[bling]

What was your question though. Not what YHWH needs.

see HIS WORD.


Think about [Understand] this, you who forget God.
Otherwise, I will tear you apart,
and no one will ·save [protect] you.
23 Those people ·honor [glorify] me
who bring me ·offerings to show thanks [thank offerings; v. 14].
And I, God, will save those who ·do that [L go on my way/path].”
Expanded Bible (EXB)

Do you see these "desires" of God as something fulfilling some "need" God has?

What is God, the creator, lacking which man (a created being of God) can provide to God?

Is God not always the "giver" or does God need our obedience to feel good? If we obey or not obey, God has done His part perfectly and would feel good about what He did, but He would empathize with man through Christ and be "hurt", but there are tons of people that refuse and lots that accept, so God would always have mixed feelings concerning man and really should never had made man in the first place, the good would not out weigh the bad. It is for the sake of the few that accept; God was compelled to make man.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

how does man not bring glory to God?

Good. Thank you.
You provided one example a few minutes ago.
Whatever man does outside of HIS WORD, not in HARMONY with HIS WORD, is a good example.

all the doctrine associated around this sin.

 

[bling]

Do you want examples ?

You can do it in light of 1 Cor. 13:1-3.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you see these "desires" of God as something fulfilling some "need" God has?

I did not see originally why are you concerned with
some supposed "need" ?
As long as he gets breakfast on time, and a snack a few times a day, I'm sure his blood sugar stays within healthy limits.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You can do it in light of 1 Cor. 13:1-3.

Really ? A lot of people, most in fact, can't , or won't.

 

[EmSw]

This truth sailed over many people's heads!

Why is grace necessary? Man is sinless...some povs allege

How can man be sinless? He works really really hard at holiness.

It has also been stated in some povs that grace is awarded to the humble.

Remember the comment about Noah "finding" grace/favor with God?

Now we know why some povs say grace can be resisted.

Grace is resisted when it is never created. Grace is "manufactured".

God gives grace to the humble. So only those able to humble themselves have grace?

Kinda throws out the whole unmerited, undeserving aspect of grace-

So then, some actually deserve grace because they are so doggone humble!

Why not tell God He is a liar? Tell Him no one will humble themselves to receive grace.

Proverbs 3:34
Surely He scorns the scornful, but gives grace to the humble.

James 4:6
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

1 Peter 5:5
Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Go ahead, tell God He is a liar to His face. Who are you to talk back to God and say His word is a lie?

 

[bling]

Doing good to others is fulfilling a need others have.

It helps us and helps others, but God is God and He always does what is best for those that will accept His help.