How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you suggest I answer another way without referencing the Bible. If so, speak up.

You have posted over 15 pages over and over and over again until people give up posting with you.
I have no idea how you could ever answer, without revealing whatever it is that you do not want to reveal, (if you even know yourself, or if you can).
We are not allowed to pursue this on this forum, not openly anyway, so it just keeps going round and round and round...

There are more (most) people who hate us all anyway, just because we call on the NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME.
And out in the open forum posting, it probably would be a bad idea to discuss whatever it is going on. We can understand that - not to bring out such things where a lot of unbelievers can read them.

So if you can think of some remedy , some way to find out why this happens , privately, tell someone. Start to get it taken care of. Otherwise things will just keep going on and on and on the same, in circles,
just with different people who usually don't care ,
and some who care, but we don't have any idea what to do.

 

[EmSw]

On the other hand - you in particular are said to be cursed because you depend on doing right to save you rather than on the finished work of Jesus Christ on your behalf.

Is this what Reformed has become - do right and you are cursed? Amazing! Do you really believe this? Do you disregard God's laws and do evil so you won't be cursed, Marvin?

Isaiah debunks your belief.

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

You yourself, are calling doing good, evil and cursed. You are calling light darkness.

Read the Bible, Marvin. Those who do evil and do not obey God's laws ARE CURSED! You have perverted the holy word of God.

 

[EmSw]

You have posted over 15 pages over and over and over again until people give up posting with you.
I have no idea how you could ever answer, without revealing whatever it is that you do not want to reveal, (if you even know yourself, or if you can).
We are not allowed to pursue this on this forum, not openly anyway, so it just keeps going round and round and round...

There are more (most) people who hate us all anyway, just because we call on the NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME.
And out in the open forum posting, it probably would be a bad idea to discuss whatever it is going on. We can understand that - not to bring out such things where a lot of unbelievers can read them.

So if you can think of some remedy , some way to find out why this happens , privately, tell someone. Start to get it taken care of. Otherwise things will just keep going on and on and on the same, in circles,
just with different people who usually don't care ,
and some who care, but we don't have any idea what to do.

What is your point?

 

[Tinyarch]

Only two things were cursed because of Adam and Eve's sin, the serpent and the ground. Cain was cursed AFTER he killed Abel. You got to quit making this stuff up.

And no Marvin, I did not misstate you. Here is your answer to Tinyarch -

Tinyarch said this -
God cursed us when He made us?

You, Marvin replied -
Yes. Not the original Adam but everyone after him.

What's the difference of being made a curse and God cursing us when He made us?

I used the term "us" to include Adam and Eve. Meaning that God cursed Adam and Eve upon creating them. The "us" is all inclusive.

Marvin clarified that Adam and Eve were not under a curse until they sinned. Then all their descendants fell under that curse by virtue of being born.

Your use of Ezekiel is wrong because the curse of sin on Adam and Eve is not the context of Ezekiel's message to those in Judah who are complaining that they shouldn't get kicked out of the land because their parents sinned. Those are two different things. Yet, you have continually attempted to merge two disparate ideas and make them be one and the same. You are simply bad at grasping context and comprehending why context matters.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Those who do evil and do not obey God's laws ARE CURSED! You have perverted the holy word of God.

So now you take a passage which says "Woe unto them" and make it the equivalent of being cursed.

I agree with you of course.

But the point is that you will only allow me to say that when a specific passage uses the actual word curse - such as the ones about the serpent, the ground, and Cain.

Only two things were cursed because of Adam and Eve's sin, the serpent and the ground. Cain was cursed AFTER he killed Abel. You got to quit making this stuff up.

Any other woe or calamity visited on mankind or the creation by the creator is not allowed to be called a curse by me.

You're a real piece of work buddy.

Is this what Reformed has become - do right and you are cursed? Amazing! Do you really believe this? Do you disregard God's laws and do evil so you won't be cursed, Marvin?
Isaiah debunks your belief................Those who do evil and do not obey God's laws ARE CURSED! You have perverted the holy word of God.

You are absolutely an amazing liar.

I did not say that those who do right are cursed.

I did not say that anyone should disregard God's laws and do evil so they won't be cursed.

I have not perverted the Word of God. But you darn sure have perverted it just as you have mine.

What I said was those (like you) who rely on the works of the law to be justified are under a curse. Which is exactly what the Word of God says.

Galatians 3:10 says about us, " For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Romans 2:14-15 "when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them"

There is a world of difference between what I said and what you say that I said.

You are again and again misrepresenting me in this forum.

You are, as I have observed many times, not the sharpest tool in the shed. But I have to believe that your misrepresentations at this point are not due to your inabilities but to your dishonesty.

Depending on your own holiness as you do for your salvation - it's amazing to me that you would do this time and time again.

There seems to be no mechanism in this forum for moderators to catch and punish lies. So there really is no recourse for we who have suffered your abuses.

I'm praying that others who are following along can see you for what you are.

But, whether they can or not, I will try hard again not to allow you a platform for your duplicity and the preaching of your false gospel by my interacting with you.

 

[Noah837]

Marvin clarified that Adam and Eve were not under a curse until they sinned. Then all their descendants fell under that curse by virtue of being born.

The concept of original sin is wrong if that is what you're referring to. When we are unsure we should see what the word of Yahuah(God) says. Unfortunately He didn't go mad and curse the world. Sin (rebellion) is met with curses or punishment. Much as a thief is jailed for breaking the law.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The concept of original sin is wrong if that is what you're referring to. When we are unsure we should see what the word of Yahuah(God) says. Unfortunately He didn't go mad and curse the world. Sin (rebellion) is met with curses or punishment. Much as a thief is jailed for breaking the law.

Do you have your Bible verses to show that mankind is not under original sin? Because I think that the Bible is clear that we all have a sin nature from the beginning.

 

[Tinyarch]

Do you have your Bible verses to show that mankind is not under original sin? Because I think that the Bible is clear that we all have a sin nature from the beginning.

This was my point in providing the article where 6 month old babies already can show false needs in order to manipulate caregivers. It is our very nature to sin.

 

[Noah837]

Do you have your Bible verses to show that mankind is not under original sin? Because I think that the Bible is clear that we all have a sin nature from the beginning.

I don't have a verse, there are many verses that clarify what I'm saying. In the beginning, Yah created everything perfect. Then man fell and brought sin into the world. We are not born sinners immediately destined for hell, but we are born into a world of sin in which leads us to become sinners. Whoever is our master (parent), we are raised in the nature of the master. Because the world is bombarded in sin and satan who is the god of this world, we live under the influence of satan and sin. That means, we are slaves to sin and satan.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't have a verse, there are many verses that clarify what I'm saying. In the beginning, Yah created everything perfect. Then man fell and brought sin into the world. We are not born sinners immediately destined for hell, but we are born into a world of sin in which leads us to become sinners. Whoever is our master (parent), we are raised in the nature of the master. Because the world is bombarded in sin and satan who is the god of this world, we live under the influence of satan and sin. That means, we are slaves to sin and satan.

I think that this verse refutes what you said.

Psalm 51:5
…4 Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I think that this verse refutes what you said.

Psalm 51:5
…4 Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

If those two states of man are not curses from God I don't know what else would qualify.

Babies die in the womb and even if they escape that fate they will die sooner or later as did their forefather and mother.

Man died spiritually the day he ate of the tree and every man is born in the state of spiritual deadness in their likeness..

Actually the entire creation (bar nothing) is under the curse because of the sins of the ones who were in charge of the creation when they chose sin.

Romans 8:20-23 "For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body."

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law and now the entire creation awaits the manifestation of that redemption.

P.S.

Pelagians of all stripes reject what God says about our inherent condition.

That's what we are witnessing here in this thread by a number of individuals.

It doesn't take a Calvinist to see that they are wrong.

Where's Augustine when you need him?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you have your Bible verses to show that mankind is not under original sin? Because I think that the Bible is clear that we all have a sin nature from the beginning.

It is not a question about sin, or the evil nature of men.
The problem is all the lies developed over the last 20 centuries to control men via religious practices that come with or "under" that wicked doctrine.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is not a question about sin, or the evil nature of men.
The problem is all the lies developed over the last 20 centuries to control men via religious practices that come with or "under" that wicked doctrine.

The entire reason that we were separated from God IS because of sin. Period.

I'm not sure why you would believe anything different. Nor do I see why you would blame it on men instead of realizing who you are from the day you were born.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The entire reason that we were separated from God IS because of sin. Period.

So ?
Who said anything different ?

 

[ToBeLoved]

So ?
Who said anything different ?

You said in post 1592 that it is not about sin.

You are confusing me here.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You said in post 1592 that it is not about sin.
...

"ToBeLoved said: ↑
Do you have your Bible verses to show that mankind is not under original sin? Because I think that the Bible is clear that we all have a sin nature from the beginning."
I agree, "a sin nature from the beginning." (not from YHWH'S CREATION (point), but from when Adam fell and sinned first.
I posted: "It is not a question about sin, or the evil nature of men.
The problem is all the lies developed over the last 20 centuries to control men via religious practices that come with or "under" that wicked doctrine."

 

[ToBeLoved]

"ToBeLoved said: ↑
Do you have your Bible verses to show that mankind is not under original sin? Because I think that the Bible is clear that we all have a sin nature from the beginning."
I agree, "a sin nature from the beginning." (not from YHWH'S CREATION (point), but from when Adam fell and sinned first.
I posted: "It is not a question about sin, or the evil nature of men.
The problem is all the lies developed over the last 20 centuries to control men via religious practices that come with or "under" that wicked doctrine."

Ok, I think I see what you are saying.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Ok, I think I see what you are saying.

shalom !
Don't tell anyone else ! (they get mad)

 

[EmSw]

One moment some say sin nature and the next they say sin. Man is not condemned, cursed, or dead because of a sin nature.

Is does not say, the wages of a sin nature is death. It does not say, the soul with a sin nature shall die.

A newborn has a propensity to sin, but is not a sinner until sin is born in his heart. James definitely tells us when sin is born within a person, but many do not give any credence to James' words. They are so bent on having people cursed. Everyone has their own 'original sin' moment.

And for those who are worried about those wicked who lie from the womb, God has a plan for them:

Psalm 58
1 Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
5 Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.
6 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O Lord.
7 Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.
8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.
9 Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath.
10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
11 So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.

Not only do these newborn wicked lie, they have poison like a serpent, they are like a deaf adder. Not to worry all you 'original sin' people. God will break their teeth, they will melt away, and they will pass away that they will not see the sun. These little wicked children whom God curses right out of the womb, will not be around, so no need to worry about any wicked newborn, God has His vengeance on them.

The righteous will rejoice when he sees God's vengeance on these little brats. Unfortunately, the Reformed say no one is righteous, so I guess we can disregard verse 10.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

One moment some say sin nature and the next they say sin. Man is not condemned, cursed, or dead because of a sin nature.

Is does not say, the wages of a sin nature is death. It does not say, the soul with a sin nature shall die.

Why do you argue pointlessly.
How much of mankind was consigned under sin ?