If Donald Trump really doesn't pay federal income tax...

[Belk]

It comes down to this, really. The aim is to pay the taxes that you are required by law to pay, and no more. What could be wrong with that. Whether you agree with a tax loophole that the government allows or not, it isn't reasonable to fault people for taking advantage of it if it exists.

What is wrong with that is the fact that the rich can pay to have these tax loopholes added to the laws. Those loopholes then shifs the tax burden to the middle class. I fail to see why I should pay a larger percentage of my income to the government so that someone who has far more resources then I do pays less.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

What is wrong with that is the fact that the rich can pay to have these tax loopholes added to the laws.

Fair enough, but that's not Trump's fault. He didn't write the tax loopholes.

 

[Belk]

Fair enough, but that's not Trump's fault. He didn't write the tax loopholes.

Trump has used political leverage via monetary donation to try to stack the deck in his favor. He has talked openly about doing so.

 

[Armoured]

Did anyone here cal them free loaders or is this just an attempted derail?

You have read some of the other threads here, right?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Trump has used political leverage via monetary donation to try to stack the deck in his favor. He has talked openly about doing so.

If people don't like the legal loopholes they should be for Trump's plan to simplify the tax system.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You have read some of the other threads here, right?

We are talking on this thread......

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Another misconception. For whatever reason, the Tax Code has built in hundreds of ways to avoid paying tax legally. If the politicians wanted a really fair system, the Tax Code would be a one-page document which says "Kindly report all your income and pay just 10% tax no matter how high or how low your income is. There will be no deductions, no exemptions, and no other shenanigans".

I agree. The present tax code grew up like 'Topsy'.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If people don't like the legal loopholes they should be for Trump's plan to simplify the tax system.

The tax code for most people is pretty simple; one page; the schedule 1040. I needed four schedules for my rental business but it was still simple, just took longer to fill out. People have made the tax code into a boogieman unnecessarily. Most who call for tax reform don't really need it. What they want is for taxes on the rich to be 'reformed' upward.

 

[Armoured]

We are talking on this thread......

You might be. Convenient, considering several participants in this very thread HAVE made such accusations in different threads. Pretty sure @iluvatar5150 was speaking generally.

 

[trunks2k]

The tax code for most people is pretty simple; one page; the schedule 1040. I needed four schedules for my rental business but it was still simple, just took longer to fill out. People have made the tax code into a boogieman unnecessarily.

I'd generally agree here. For the majority of people in the US, filing your federal income taxes is a pretty straight forward process. I'm probably on the slightly more complicated end as I actually itemize and it still only takes 20 minutes to do my taxes. Granted I use an online program to do it, so it's mostly just answering "Did X happen this year? if yes, how much did X cost?".

If I had to do it by hand, maybe it'd take me 45 minutes.

The tax system becomes complicated when you are dealing with a lot of money.

What irks me is all the tax prep services that pop up in poor areas during tax season. These are in areas where the overwhelming majority of the population should have really, really simple tax returns. But they make doing taxes seem like a more daunting task than it is, charge them a premium and then... offer to give them money immediately rather than waiting for the money from the IRS. Of course, getting that money isn't free....

As for Trump and him potentially not paying any income taxes - even if it was totally above board, it's gotta be obvious why people would be angry that a (supposed) multi billionaire is managing to get away with not paying any income tax.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You might be. Convenient, considering several participants in this very thread HAVE made such accusations in different threads. Pretty sure @iluvatar5150 was speaking generally.

I am sure he can speak for himself.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

I'd generally agree here. For the majority of people in the US, filing your federal income taxes is a pretty straight forward process. I'm probably on the slightly more complicated end as I actually itemize and it still only takes 20 minutes to do my taxes. Granted I use an online program to do it, so it's mostly just answering "Did X happen this year? if yes, how much did X cost?".

If I had to do it by hand, maybe it'd take me 45 minutes.

The tax system becomes complicated when you are dealing with a lot of money.

What irks me is all the tax prep services that pop up in poor areas during tax season. These are in areas where the overwhelming majority of the population should have really, really simple tax returns. But they make doing taxes seem like a more daunting task than it is, charge them a premium and then... offer to give them money immediately rather than waiting for the money from the IRS. Of course, getting that money isn't free....

As for Trump and him potentially not paying any income taxes - even if it was totally above board, it's gotta be obvious why people would be angry that a (supposed) multi billionaire is managing to get away with not paying any income tax.

I remember back in service in the 70's I used to do 1040 short for $10 buck......I got a lot of takers........and they are just as simple today. That lure of instant money in their hands is just too much to resist for some people but the effective 'interest' rate for that is astronomical. They don't explain that with direct deposit and electronic filing it only takes about 10 days......of course many of the poor may not have checking accounts which would account for all the 'check cashing services' that abound.

 

[Armoured]

I am sure he can speak for himself.....

Well, I'll make the same comment, too.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'd generally agree here. For the majority of people in the US, filing your federal income taxes is a pretty straight forward process. I'm probably on the slightly more complicated end as I actually itemize and it still only takes 20 minutes to do my taxes. Granted I use an online program to do it, so it's mostly just answering "Did X happen this year? if yes, how much did X cost?".

If I had to do it by hand, maybe it'd take me 45 minutes.

The tax system becomes complicated when you are dealing with a lot of money.

What irks me is all the tax prep services that pop up in poor areas during tax season. These are in areas where the overwhelming majority of the population should have really, really simple tax returns. But they make doing taxes seem like a more daunting task than it is, charge them a premium and then... offer to give them money immediately rather than waiting for the money from the IRS. Of course, getting that money isn't free....

As for Trump and him potentially not paying any income taxes - even if it was totally above board, it's gotta be obvious why people would be angry that a (supposed) multi billionaire is managing to get away with not paying any income tax.

It's the fear and unfamiliarity that bothers people. Also, in business we are keeping records all through the year and then transferring those figures to the tax forms at tax time, so we've already done the lion's share of the work.

The main problem with not paying any taxes is that government programs are starved for money. However the money saved does return to the general economy, just not for government programs. That said the argument that this practice takes from the poor and from education is bogus as these programs generally are fully funded. Infrastructure projects are the main ones hurt by this.

What is interesting in this regard is that in a downturn government agencies will preserve directors and high level staff while laying off those who do the actual work of these agencies. In many cases (imo) they could lay off, or reduce the hours of, the directors and high level staff, keep the low end workers who actually do the work, and continue the programs successfully.

This was brought home in my county when the workers on the lake weed cutters were laid off and the director and staff of that department retained their jobs. The cutter operators didn't need to be told where or how to harvest the weeds. The result: a happy director and staff, and lakes choked with weeds.

 

[Fantine]

I have had some hard-working single mom friends whom I've taught to file for free and not spend hundreds on "refund anticipation loans." I've also told that they can fill out their W4's in such a way that they can get that EITC in their paychecks each week. When friends have consumer problems, I enjoy trying to troubleshoot for them.

I know that real estate investors have extra deductions such as depreciation--but it seems as if Trump has exploited every loophole possible. And did he give a dime to charity? (Lots of reporters have been trying to reconstruct Trump's charitable donations as he continues to stonewall sharing his phantom tax returns--and haven't found a dime he's paid since before 2008...)

We had a number of years where our federal taxes were over $25,000....my husband is retired now and we haven't really withdrawn very much from IRA's yet so our taxes have been much lower in retirement. We cash in what we need. Our home is paid off.

But we haven't used tax loopholes to lower our taxes.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What is wrong with that is the fact that the rich can pay to have these tax loopholes added to the laws. Those loopholes then shifs the tax burden to the middle class. I fail to see why I should pay a larger percentage of my income to the government so that someone who has far more resources then I do pays less.

Millions of middle class investors take advantage of low tax rates i.e. capital gains tax rates. The rich don't have exclusive rights to these tax rates, although they are generally more able to invest in capital gain friendly activities.

 

[4x4toy]

If Trump wants Hillary to release her emails, he should release his emails.

Hillary has already released her tax returns, so Trump should _______ (fill in the blank).

What is the joke going around .. "Hillary , I e-mailed my returns to you "

The financial and corporate law industry is billions , some of the same lobbyists are contributors to Hillary and they get what they want .. If Trump were a long time government servant who become wealthy with a government salary I might be interested in his returns , but not really ..

 

[wing2000]

Why would it not be ethical not to pay taxes to the government if it's done using the government's own rules?

...how do we know that?
Trump was investing thousands in Castro's Cuba....with the "appearance" of legality, while publicly declaring his support for the Cuba embargo. Trump's attorneys and accountants can make anything appear legal. There's a reason why Trump has been audited continuously by the IRS....and there's a reason his counsel is advising not to disclose his tax returns.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I have had some hard-working single mom friends whom I've taught to file for free and not spend hundreds on "refund anticipation loans." I've also told that they can fill out their W4's in such a way that they can get that EITC in their paychecks each week. When friends have consumer problems, I enjoy trying to troubleshoot for them.

I know that real estate investors have extra deductions such as depreciation--but it seems as if Trump has exploited every loophole possible. And did he give a dime to charity? (Lots of reporters have been trying to reconstruct Trump's charitable donations as he continues to stonewall sharing his phantom tax returns--and haven't found a dime he's paid since before 2008...)

We had a number of years where our federal taxes were over $25,000....my husband is retired now and we haven't really withdrawn very much from IRA's yet so our taxes have been much lower in retirement. We cash in what we need. Our home is paid off.

But we haven't used tax loopholes to lower our taxes.

Trump has (reportedly) used various forms of depreciation on his properties to offset any taxes due from other activities. What is not generally known is that all that depreciation will be 'recaptured' when the properties are finally sold (not rolled into other like properties), along with taxes on the actual appreciation on those properties. His plan is to keep as many properties as he can to avoid this but at some future time they will be sold and the taxes will be paid.

 

[wing2000]

As for Trump and him potentially not paying any income taxes - even if it was totally above board, it's gotta be obvious why people would be angry that a (supposed) multi billionaire is managing to get away with not paying any income tax.

....and then complaining about NATO partners who are not carrying their share of the defense burden.