Islam The Quran and reading its interpretation.

[Why?JustWhy?]

As of lately, I have been watching MANY many debates and discussions between Muslims and Christians. Whenever a Christian points out an error or a contradiction, or whatever it is that irritates Muslims, Muslims resort to "You have to read the interpretation (Often times referred to as "Tafsir") to fully understand it". This annoys me, as it has NO Quranic basis WHATSOEVER.

The Quran is clear. Who made that admission? Well, the Quran made that admission.
Quran 6:114 "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who revealed to you the Book explained in detail?..." (Sahih International)

The following verse is even WORSE for Muslims because it claims something UNBELIEVABLE.

Quran 16:89 "... And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things..." (Sahih International)

Therefore, I ask myself "Are those verses clear?" But in asking that, I am implying the Quran is NOT clear which contradicts what the Quran CLEARLY says.

I conclude, no one has to look up ANY interpretation of the Quran.
So, please, stop using this argument as an escape route.
Thanks.

- Sal

 

[Limo]

It's not the interpretation it's about the context.
If you want to understand a book, you can't cut peaces out of context and ask questions.
You need to know about language, environment, circumstances, history to understand the context of a statement.

Allah says to you and to others in Quran 4:82 "Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction"

Allah said in Quran 15:9 "Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian."
It's guarded by Allah from changes which never happened.


We've neither errors nor contradiction in Quran. It's the only book all over history that challenges all humans all over history to find errors or to write another book like it.
Allah said in Quran 17:88 " Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another."

Then Allah challenged for even 10 Surahs as said in Quran 11:13 "
Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad SAW) forged it (the Quran)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged Surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!"

Then asked to bring one and only one Surah as said in Quran 10:38 "
Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."



Go ahead and bring anything you think it's an error or contradictory.

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

It's not the interpretation it's about the context.
If you want to understand a book, you can't cut peaces out of context and ask questions.
You need to know about language, environment, circumstances, history to understand the context of a statement.

Allah says to you and to others in Quran 4:82 "Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction"

Allah said in Quran 15:9 "Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian."
It's guarded by Allah from changes which never happened.


We've neither errors nor contradiction in Quran. It's the only book all over history that challenges all humans all over history to find errors or to write another book like it.
Allah said in Quran 17:88 " Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another."

Then Allah challenged for even 10 Surahs as said in Quran 11:13 "
Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad SAW) forged it (the Quran)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged Surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!"

Then asked to bring one and only one Surah as said in Quran 10:38 "
Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."



Go ahead and bring anything you think it's an error or contradictory.

You missed the point.
So I will ask you. Is the Quran clear?
If yes, then no need for any further clarification. If no, then your Quran contradicts itself rather, YOU are contradicting your own Holy Book.

 

[Niblo]

You missed the point.
So I will ask you. Is the Quran clear?
If yes, then no need for any further clarification. If no, then your Quran contradicts itself rather, YOU are contradicting your own Holy Book.

Nothing on earth or in heaven is hidden from Allāh: it is He who shapes you all in the womb as He pleases. There is no God but Him, the Mighty, the Wise: it is He who has sent this Scripture down to you (Prophet). Some of its verses are absolutely clear (‘muḥ'kamātun’) – these are the cornerstone of the Scripture – and others are allegorical (‘mutashābihātun’). The perverse at heart eagerly pursue what is allegorical (‘tashābaha’) in their attempt to make trouble and to pin down a specific meaning of their own: only Allāh knows the true meaning. Those firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in it: it is all from our Lord” – only those with real perception will take heed – “Our Lord, do not let our hearts deviate after You have guided us. Grant us Your mercy: You are the Ever Giving. Our Lord, You will gather all people on the Day of which there is no doubt: God never breaks His promise.”’ (Al‘Imran: 5-9).

No explanation required!

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

Nothing on earth or in heaven is hidden from Allāh: it is He who shapes you all in the womb as He pleases. There is no God but Him, the Mighty, the Wise: it is He who has sent this Scripture down to you (Prophet). Some of its verses are absolutely clear (‘muḥ'kamātun’) – these are the cornerstone of the Scripture – and others are allegorical (‘mutashābihātun’). The perverse at heart eagerly pursue what is allegorical (‘tashābaha’) in their attempt to make trouble and to pin down a specific meaning of their own: only Allāh knows the true meaning. Those firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in it: it is all from our Lord” – only those with real perception will take heed – “Our Lord, do not let our hearts deviate after You have guided us. Grant us Your mercy: You are the Ever Giving. Our Lord, You will gather all people on the Day of which there is no doubt: God never breaks His promise.”’ (Al‘Imran: 5-9).

No explanation required!

Irrelevant. Is the Quran clear?

 

[Niblo]

Irrelevant. Is the Quran clear?

In what way is my post irrelevant?

'Some of its verses are absolutely clear (‘muḥ'kamātun’) – these are the cornerstone of the Scripture – and others are allegorical (‘mutashābihātun’).' This is a clear statement about the Qur'an.

'The perverse at heart eagerly pursue what is allegorical (‘tashābaha’) in their attempt to make trouble and to pin down a specific meaning of their own' This is a clear statement about a certain type of person. You may, or may not, recognise yourself here.

'Those firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in it: it is all from our Lord” – only those with real perception will take heed – “Our Lord, do not let our hearts deviate after You have guided us. Grant us Your mercy: You are the Ever Giving. Our Lord, You will gather all people on the Day of which there is no doubt: God never breaks His promise.' This is a clear statement about the Muslims.

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

In what way is my post irrelevant?

'Some of its verses are absolutely clear (‘muḥ'kamātun’) – these are the cornerstone of the Scripture – and others are allegorical (‘mutashābihātun’).' This is a clear statement about the Qur'an.

'The perverse at heart eagerly pursue what is allegorical (‘tashābaha’) in their attempt to make trouble and to pin down a specific meaning of their own' This is a clear statement about a certain type of person. You may, or may not, recognise yourself here.

'Those firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in it: it is all from our Lord” – only those with real perception will take heed – “Our Lord, do not let our hearts deviate after You have guided us. Grant us Your mercy: You are the Ever Giving. Our Lord, You will gather all people on the Day of which there is no doubt: God never breaks His promise.' This is a clear statement about the Muslims.

Are you saying some verses are NOT clear?

 

[Niblo]

Are you saying some verses are NOT clear?

I'm saying this:

'Some of its verses are absolutely clear (‘muḥ'kamātun’) – these are the cornerstone of the Scripture – and others are allegorical (‘mutashābihātun’).'

I assume you know what the word 'allegorical' means?

 

[Limo]

You missed the point.
So I will ask you. Is the Quran clear?
If yes, then no need for any further clarification. If no, then your Quran contradicts itself rather, YOU are contradicting your own Holy Book.

We need to agree first about the term "clear". What does it mean clear for you in well defined points.

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

We need to agree first about the term "clear". What does it mean clear for you in well defined points.

lol. This is what Islam has done for humanity, asking what "clear" means.
Clear: Easy to understand, not vague.

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

I'm saying this:

'Some of its verses are absolutely clear (‘muḥ'kamātun’) – these are the cornerstone of the Scripture – and others are allegorical (‘mutashābihātun’).'

I assume you know what the word 'allegorical' means?

I would understand it if you didn't butcher the word by using the English version of that word.

Why is it hard for some humans to answer a simply question? Is the Quran clear?
Yes, or no?

 

[Niblo]

I would understand it if you didn't butcher the word by using the English version of that word.

Why is it hard for some humans to answer a simply question? Is the Quran clear?
Yes, or no?

What word would that be....Allegorical? If so, what 'version' would you prefer?

 

[Limo]

lol. This is what Islam has done for humanity, asking what "clear" means.
Clear: Easy to understand, not vague.

Yes this is the great addition of Islam to humanity. Islamic culture is to define expressions.
Before Islam pauline-christinity was driving Christians by myths and thoughts till Muslims has taken them from deep darkness and ignorance to experimental science and this is the basics of all what you're enjoying now.

Quran is easy to understand.
When you read you understand every and each word or verse or surah on its own.

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

Yes this is the great addition of Islam to humanity. Islamic culture is to define expressions.
Before Islam pauline-christinity was driving Christians by myths and thoughts till Muslims has taken them from deep darkness and ignorance to experimental science and this is the basics of all what you're enjoying now.

Quran is easy to understand.
When you read you understand every and each word or verse or surah on its own.

Is the Quran clear?

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

What word would that be....Allegorical? If so, what 'version' would you prefer?

Is the Quran clear? A simple question requires a simple answer.

 

[Niblo]

.

 

[Niblo]

.

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

Are you gonna run way now? I expected that.
Whatever happens, know this, Jesus is the ONLY way to God. He still loves you.

Just to be clear, my "none of your business" posts were directed at a member called "just a joe" or something like that. Not at the two Muslims member I was replying to.

 

[Why?JustWhy?]

It's an open discussion. "Just a Joe" comments are valuable and valid regardless if he's Muslim or not. It's you who run away from answering his questions.

We never run away from discussion, the problem is your mind. You've something in your mind and regardless of what others say, you're just rejecting it.

I personally asked about the definition of "clear" although your answer was mixed with sarcasm but I answered.

Again, if "clear" means "understandable". I said "Yes it's understandable" don't you understand what is in Quran when you read?

Where do I start?
"It's an open discussion."

Not really. My post was directed at MUSLIMS. Last I checked, Joe is NOT a Muslim.

""Just a Joe" comments are valuable and valid regardless if he's Muslim or not."

Valuable to you, maybe. Not to me. Even if they are valuable to me, they are STILL IRRELEVANT. I want YOUR answer so I can use it against you. His answer doesn't have any value in our "Discussion". Whatever he says, it is HIS admission, not yours.
"It's you who run away from answering his questions."

It is not running when his posts are irrelevant. it is like a historian waling into a physics class and asking the student about WWII. If the students don't answer, they are not running away from answering his question. The History professor should teach in his class. End of story.

"We never run away from discussion"
You must be kidding. How long did it take you before answering my question? I know I know, you will ask me to define
"long", "answer", "question"? Right? As I expected.

"the problem is your mind"

Could you please let ME speak on MY behalf? I don't claim to know what is in your heart or mind. Please apologize for this invalid assertion.
"You've something in your mind and regardless of what others say, you're just rejecting it."

If I have it in my mind, why would I reject the very same thing I have in my mind? Makes no sense to me.

"I personally asked about the definition of "clear" although your answer was mixed with sarcasm but I answered."

I was sarcastic because your question was ridiculous. If I were to match the level of unnecessary steps you take in answering my questions, I would have to ask you to define every single word. Only then will I be able to match your method.

"Again, if "clear" means "understandable". I said "Yes it's understandable""

Good


" don't you understand what is in Quran when you read?"

Trust me, I do understand it.
HOWEVER, even when the Quran says the Quran is a clarification for all things, and that it is explained in detail, with YOUR own admission the Quran is clear, I STILL get nonsense answer when I bring up 9:29. I get nonsense when I bring up 9:5.
That, of course, happened with ALL Muslims that I talked to. I do not want to claim to know what your response is going to be. But I am waiting for it if you want.
What is your response for Chapter 9:29?

 

[anatolian]

Peace Why?JustWhy?. If Quran says that it is clear then it is clear.