once saved always saved?

[Bible Highlighter]

Rest easy guys. It doesn't say that at all and the United Church of Christ doesn't subscribe to the idea of "Baptismal Salvation."

Well, maybe there are different branches of the UCC (or members who do not agree with this teaching). But Gotquestions says they do believe in Baptismal Salvation.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Church-of-Christ.html


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[Bible Highlighter]

Why don't we make this easier? Come right out and say what's on your mind.

My questions were in line with getting you to see the flaws in Once Saved Always Saved. If you do not want to answer them, you are of course free to ignore the problems that I believe is attached to your belief system.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I have met no man that could use Parables with the truth and perfection that Christ did/does. Only from the perfect mind of Christ do those parables make perfect sense.

I've read your parables/real world examples. They lack much truth and are not all that and a bag of chips. You are not Christ.

Sorry, this does not get you off the hook to ignore how we can use parables (or real world examples), too. For the Canaanite woman expounded upon Jesus's parable with a continued parable of her own (Matthew 15:27), and Jesus accepted it (Matthew 15:28).


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[Bible Highlighter]

You are taking this out of context. Jesus says If we become His Follower we live forever with Him. Thus eternal life with Him. Yes Jesus is the most super power there is along with His Father. Eternal life describes His gift to us to be with him.

I do not know how you have come to the conclusion you have.

Jesus says He is the bread of life (John 6:35). Jesus says He is the way the truth and the life (John 14:6). Jesus alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). Jesus is the source of our life (or eternal life).

Anyways, I provided a list of verses (a couple of pages back within this thread) that clearly shows that one cannot be out of fellowship with the Lord and still be saved.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/once-saved-always-saved.7905125/page-53#post-69969334


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[Victor E.]

I have met no man that could use Parables with the truth and perfection that Christ did/does. Only from the perfect mind of Christ do those parables make perfect sense.

I've read your parables/real world examples. They lack much truth and are not all that and a bag of chips. You are not Christ.

It's really quite easy. We all have the mind of Christ. Listen to His Spirit. He was not sent to live inside us for no reason. If we "try" to do it ourselves it is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

 

[farout]

Jesus says He is the bread of life (John 6:35). Jesus says He is the way the truth and the life (John 14:6). Jesus alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). Jesus is the source of our life (or eternal life).

Anyways, I provided a list of verses (a couple of pages back within this thread) that clearly shows that one cannot be out of fellowship with the Lord and still be saved.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/once-saved-always-saved.7905125/page-53#post-69969334


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Well I guess Peter lost his salvation when he denied Jesus? Then somehow someone got the translating wrong in John 10:28 & 29? Maybe it should read "I give them temporary life, and they can perish. No one is secure in my Fathers hand. My Father can not keep a person form falling out of His protective hand. The Father who has given them to me, He is great, but he can not prevent anyone form falling out of His protective hand. The Father and I are one, but we have no power to give you anything, not even eternal security."

IMO if eternal does not mean forever, what does it mean? If we are saved and then can be lost, then there is NO WAY to be saved again, according to Hebrews 6:4-6. So if being out of fellowship means the loss of our salvation, please tell me who you know who is 100% of the time in total complete fellowship with Jesus Christ? If what you state is true we do not stand a chance of being saved! If the Blood of my Lord Jesus Christ is not powerful enough to save, and if the Holy Spirit living in me and sealing me is not a guarantee of my Salvation, and if the Bibles words in John 10:28-29 can not be trusted as they are stated in plane English, then we are doomed to hell!

Take time to use a good EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE, like Strongs and look up the words in the back under the Greek Words section. Read each word in the verses and you will find just what "eternal" really means.

When you make the statement that being out of fellowship with Jesus we are not saved, you may need to prayerfully reread the Scripture, and ask the Holy Spirit to give you a clear understanding of John 10:28-29. IMO you might find something new and different.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Anyways, I provided a list of verses (a couple of pages back within this thread) that clearly shows that one cannot be out of fellowship with the Lord and still be saved....

What was provided was only an opinion with lots of assumptions about what the list of verses were about.

 

[Albion]

I have been talking on Christian forums for a very long time. It is generally acceptable to reply to another person's post as a side bar discussion briefly.

Certainly. But that wasn't my point. This thread has wandered off topic and back and off topic in a different way, such that the focus is close to being lost. If it's to be OSAS, let's talk about that rather than all these other off-topic matters.

 

[Albion]

Well, maybe there are different branches of the UCC (or members who do not agree with this teaching). But Gotquestions says they do believe in Baptismal Salvation.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Church-of-Christ.html


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Your link refers to the Churches of Christ (incorrectly referred to in the singular on that webpage). It is not about the United Church of Christ. Those are two quite different denominations.

 

[ToBeLoved]

OSAS it is.

OSAS is true because when we are saved, our covenant with Jesus, the New and Everlasting Covenant is SEALED with the Holy Spirit. And we are given the Holy Spirit.

Since the New Covenant is sealed by the Holy Spirit, to break the covenant would mean that the SEAL of the covenant would need to be broken. Therefore, the Holy Spirit must leave the believer if the person is no longer saved. However, the Holy Spirit has never left a believer and Jesus would never break His Covenant with us.

So how can OSAS not be true?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Certainly. But that wasn't my point. This thread has wandered off topic and back and off topic in a different way, such that the focus is close to being lost. If it's to be OSAS, let's talk about that rather than all these other off-topic matters.

Why are you talking now about an off topic discussion with this post? Are you not breaking your own rules?


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[Bible Highlighter]

Your link refers to the Churches of Christ (incorrectly referred to in the singular on that webpage). It is not about the United Church of Christ. Those are two quite different denominations.

Yes, that was my mistake. My apologies. I quoted the wrong article at Gotquestions. However, "Jesus is Saviour" website appears to disagree with you, though.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/UCC/ucc.htm

Oh and no. I do not support or believe everything taught by "Gotquestions" or "Jesus-is-Savior" websites because they erroneously believe in OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved).


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[ToBeLoved]

Jesus is Saviour website appears to disagree with you.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/UCC/ucc.htm

Oh and no. I do not support or believe everything taught by Gotquestions or Jesus is Savior websites because they erroneously believe in OSAS.


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This is really off topic for this thread, but great conversation for another thread that you could very easily start.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well I guess Peter lost his salvation when he denied Jesus? Then somehow someone got the translating wrong in John 10:28 & 29? Maybe it should read "I give them temporary life, and they can perish. No one is secure in my Fathers hand. My Father can not keep a person form falling out of His protective hand. The Father who has given them to me, He is great, but he can not prevent anyone form falling out of His protective hand. The Father and I are one, but we have no power to give you anything, not even eternal security."

IMO if eternal does not mean forever, what does it mean? If we are saved and then can be lost, then there is NO WAY to be saved again, according to Hebrews 6:4-6. So if being out of fellowship means the loss of our salvation, please tell me who you know who is 100% of the time in total complete fellowship with Jesus Christ? If what you state is true we do not stand a chance of being saved! If the Blood of my Lord Jesus Christ is not powerful enough to save, and if the Holy Spirit living in me and sealing me is not a guarantee of my Salvation, and if the Bibles words in John 10:28-29 can not be trusted as they are stated in plane English, then we are doomed to hell!

Take time to use a good EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE, like Strongs and look up the words in the back under the Greek Words section. Read each word in the verses and you will find just what "eternal" really means.

When you make the statement that being out of fellowship with Jesus we are not saved, you may need to prayerfully reread the Scripture, and ask the Holy Spirit to give you a clear understanding of John 10:28-29. IMO you might find something new and different.

You keep repeating John 10:28-29. But you fail to quote verse 27. I wonder why? Well, whether it was intentional or unintentional, verse 27 gives us the piece of the puzzle to our understanding for verses 28-29. Verse 27 says,

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”

This is the type of sheep that cannot be snatched out of the Lord's hand. They are sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. These are not sheep who are lazy and or who are being dragged by their necks on leashes.


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[ToBeLoved]

You keep repeating John 10:28-29. But you fail to quote verse 27. I wonder why? Well, whether it was intentional or unintentional, verse 27 gives us the piece of the puzzle to our understanding for verses 28-29. Verse 27 says,

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”

This is the type of sheep that cannot be snatched out of the Lord's hand. They are sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. These are not sheep who are lazy and or who are being dragged by their necks on leashes.


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‭‭

So then you are OSAS. Please state your position on the topic.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is really off topic for this thread, but great conversation for another thread that you could very easily start.

I am merely replying to what they said. I did not initiate the topic of discussion or have an interest in debating it for a significant length of time. I mean, technically speaking, your pointing out an off topic discussion is off topic in discussion, too. So let's move on and forget about it, shall we?


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[ToBeLoved]

I am merely replying to what they said. I did not initiate the topic of discussion or have an interest in debating it for a significant length of time. I mean, technically speaking, your pointing out an off topic discussion is off topic in discussion, too. So let's move on and forget about it, shall we?


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Can you answer my previous question?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So then you are OSAS. Please state your position on the topic.

First, please do not put words in my mouth and tell me what I believe. Second, if a person were to carefully read my post, and read the verse, and be honest with themselves in what it says, it will lead them to the conclusion that Eternal Security is not true. For verse 28-29 is in reference to sheep that FOLLOW Jesus (See verse 27). This is the type of sheep that cannot be snatched out of the Lord's hand. But that does not mean a person can later choose of their own free will to be a type of sheep that DOES NOT FOLLOW Jesus (Thereby rendering the promise of verses 28-29 as obsolete for themselves).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Can you answer my previous question?

Post# 1110 or 1115?
Or is it another one?

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[ToBeLoved]

Post# 1110 or 1115?
Or is it another one?

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Sorry Jason. I'm taking another extended break from CF. I'll talk with you later.