Rebellious Women

[Paidiske]

How do you apply the trinity to human relationships?

The point about the Trinity is that we worship a God who is a communion of persons. In that pattern of inner relationship between the persons of the Trinity, we find the pattern for perfect human relationships as well.

Our life together should mirror something of the inner life of God; a life in which hierarchy and ego are not at issue; a life in which each is willing to be involved in work that is costly; a life which is not closed off and turned inward, but looking outward in overflowing abundant generosity, love and joy.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"most" men and "most" women and "most" children die unrepentant.
"most" married people die unrepentant.
"most" single people die unrepentant.

Just to put things in perhaps a little better perspective.

There might really not be a good perspective here. (people have to whole-heartedly seek God's Kingdom to find it,
no matter what the cost)

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The point about the Trinity is that we worship a God who is a communion of persons. In that pattern of inner relationship between the persons of the Trinity, we find the pattern for perfect human relationships as well.

Our life together should mirror something of the inner life of God; a life in which hierarchy and ego are not at issue; a life in which each is willing to be involved in work that is costly; a life which is not closed off and turned inward, but looking outward in overflowing abundant generosity, love and joy.

Christ submitted to the Father. There is hierarchy within the Triune God, and ego has nothing to do with it.

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

Let me asks you this if you feel that old testament law still applies. Do you wear mixed clothes say cotton and some other materical? Do you follow all of the diet laws that they had? Do you maintain facial hair? Have you ever WORKED on Saturday? There are over 600 laws I could asks about.

God specifically called it an abomination for men to wear women's clothes and vice versa. God never changes.

These dietary laws have later texts that make eating certain things permissible.

Wearing mixed clothing was never referred to as an abomination. It had to do with Old Testament Jewish law. Same with facial hair.

 

[Paidiske]

Christ submitted to the Father. There is hierarchy within the Triune God, and ego has nothing to do with it.

Christ submitted to the father - in a manner of speaking - as part of the economy of salvation, but it is not eternal subordination as a pattern for human relationships.

I say in a manner of speaking because it is more accurate to say that the Trinity together decided on the plan for salvation, and that each person of the Trinity took its part in that plan; so each submitted to all, rather than it being hierarchical per se.

 

[expos4ever]

God specifically called it an abomination for men to wear women's clothes and vice versa. God never changes.

1. The law about clothes - at least the one you cited from Deuteronomy - is part of the Law of Moses which was for Jews only and is now retired.
2. The fact that God never changes - which I do not dispute - does not mean that the way he deals with us does not change.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How do you apply the trinity to human relationships?

Good question. Some years ago, God transformed the way I experience life, it's kind of like I feel what others do and at times experience what they do while still present in my own moment.
.
In this sense it is like the trinity passages that speak of Jesus being in the Father and the Father in Jesus and a fulfillment of the prayer of Jesus who asked that all who believed through his disciples would be one as Jesus and the Father were.
.
As time passed, I realized that I was simply made aware of something that was already happening. So when I look at relationships that work and relationships that don't I can see myself in the other person's reaction to me . and I think at the very least beyond my own personal experience .. I think we could benefit from considering how our actions affect people's responses to us, taking responsibility for our own actions so to speak.
.
For example the Original Post appears to be speaking under the assumption that women respond to men independent of the actions of men, this is an illustration of the individualistic focus.
.
The scripture's illustration of the trinity and a marriage is with christ as the head then as man as the head of the woman, now you'd think this means that men get to tell women what to do, no. In the kingdom of God, people are considered great based on their service to others. So as Christ is the example to the man, then the man has a huge burden to be the example of Christ to the wife (love your wife as christ loves the church). So if the woman is being "rebellious" it is because the man just isn't there yet. so deal with it.
.
However, perhaps you'd like to apply it like the trinity where all members serve equally under christ, and see how that works and manifests blessings.
.
I'd have to say I'm not perfect, the only reason I have so much to say is because of the experience I've had with human to human wifi connections over the past number of years, and it's obvious from this perspective that people become the person they are because of the relationships that enrich their personality.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God said plainly , when the whole world except the people He chose were totally pagan, totally against Him, and without salvation ,
that what separated His Chosen People from all the other people,
was His Instructions that He Entrusted to them.

He doesn't entrust His Instructions to the pagans.
Jesus never appeared after His resurrection to anyone except those who believed in Him and were immersed in Him.

 

[Mattjorgdbb]

OOOOO! Let me offer my two cents: ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Hank77]

God specifically called it an abomination for men to wear women's clothes and vice versa. God never changes.

These dietary laws have later texts that make eating certain things permissible.

Wearing mixed clothing was never referred to as an abomination. It had to do with Old Testament Jewish law. Same with facial hair.

Phew...glad that is clear up. In our culture pants are not exclusively men's clothing. Women don't wear pants to impersonate men. People don't think that women wearing pants are men. No abomination.

 

[Starcrystal]

Let's see:

More women choose not to submit to their husbands than to submit.
Most men would die for their wife.

More men following God's Command

Large percentage of women working out of the home and not keeping the home.
Most men working a job to provide for the family

More men following God's Command

Most women wearing men's style of clothing
Nearly all men wearing men's style clothing

More men following God's Command.





I think a man should love his wife regardless if she doesn't submit to him, or even treats him like dirt, because Christ commands it. My point, however, was to illustrate why some men don't feel love toward their spouse; it's because they are not respected or submitted to.





.

Ok, so I can agree with a few small points...would I die for my wife..no problem..would i defend her from evil stalkers and creepers, sure..that is a husbands God given duty..i also think women would do same, out of true love...
sometimes wives do not respect husband and sometimes husbands do not love wives as Christ loved the church which is also a command of Jesus...so you get arguments and tension

Then you go off about women working out of home and wearing mens clothing..hey I'm a man and my hair is a foot long in back in a ponytail, am I going to hell?
What if the man works around home because it is a farm and he tends to many acres while wife goes and works a job because todays society dictates a certain level of income, are we going to hell?

And what of Lydia?

"A certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, one who worshiped God, heard us; whose heart the Lord opened to listen to the things which were spoken by Paul. When she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and stay." So she persuaded us."
Acts 16:14 - 15..

Not only did she have a business, she persuaded the men of God to come stay with her..I do not see any gossip about the men and her sleeping together or evil rumors...it is a testimony to the grace of God and equality..AMEN!

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

1. The law about clothes - at least the one you cited from Deuteronomy - is part of the Law of Moses which was for Jews only and is now retired.
2. The fact that God never changes - which I do not dispute - does not mean that the way he deals with us does not change.

God called it an ABOMINATION. In other parts of the Bible, it is clear that anything that is an abomination can send someone to the lake of fire without repentance. Therefore, if God were this serious with calling it an abomination for Jews to cross-dress, do you think that God would approve of non-Jews cross-dressing?

There's also the verse in the New Testament that says the effeminate will not enter the kingdom of GOd. Male cross dressers are definitely effeminate.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

..... there were perhaps thousands who called her a prostitute....

many apostles and disciples were called names we can't even print here
because of their testimony of Jesus.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

God called it an ABOMINATION. In other parts of the Bible, it is clear that anything that is an abomination can send someone to the lake of fire without repentance. Therefore, if God were this serious with calling it an abomination for Jews to cross-dress, don't you think the same would apply to all people who are part of His creation, male and female?

So in context of this thread, you're saying wives obey your husbands or burn in hell? or was this a tangent unrelated?

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

Then you go off about women working out of home and wearing mens clothing..hey I'm a man and my hair is a foot long in back in a ponytail, am I going to hell?

Do I think you should have long hair. Absolutely not. I do not believe that God approves it, for the Bible talks about women growing their hair long, not men. Will it send you to hell, I don't think I can truly answer that one as it's not crystal clear for me.

What if the man works around home because it is a farm and he tends to many acres while wife goes and works a job because todays society dictates a certain level of income, are we going to hell?

Working on the farm is work.

Society "dictates a certain level of income" because women entered the workforce and lowered wages for everyone.
Secondly, most people can afford to live on one salary, they just choose not to;
Many people either need to downsize, or the man should get a second job, withstanding his physical abilities. I'm more in favor of downsizing as children need a dad in the home for part of the day.

And what of Lydia?

"A certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, one who worshiped God, heard us; whose heart the Lord opened to listen to the things which were spoken by Paul. When she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and stay." So she persuaded us."
Acts 16:14 - 15..


Not only did she have a business, she persuaded the men of God to come stay with her..I do not see any gossip about the men and her sleeping together or evil rumors...it is a testimony to the grace of God and equality..AMEN!

If Lydia was married, she must have had a way of keeping up the home. Most people are unable to do so.

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

So in context of this thread, you're saying wives obey your husbands or burn in hell? or was this a tangent unrelated?

Any unrepentant sin can send someone to the lake of fire.

 

[Paidiske]

Women entering the workforce didn't lower wages. It did give the market room to raise prices on key things (such as the cost of a family home), so that one income came to have relatively less buying power.

I actually agree that most families can live on one wage or the equivalent. My husband and I have done so for a long time. What I object to is the argument that this therefore means that women should be removed from paid employment.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Any unrepentant sin can send someone to the lake of fire.

The presence of God is great isn't it? For he is a consuming fire. Remember to be good to those who are evil to you so you can be like the Father in heaven.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Christ submitted to the father - in a manner of speaking - as part of the economy of salvation, but it is not eternal subordination as a pattern for human relationships.

I say in a manner of speaking because it is more accurate to say that the Trinity together decided on the plan for salvation, and that each person of the Trinity took its part in that plan; so each submitted to all, rather than it being hierarchical per se.

The Godhead does not change. The Son has always been subordinate to the Father, and women were created subordinate to men.

 

[Paidiske]

The Godhead does not change. The Son has always been subordinate to the Father, and women were created subordinate to men.

That is one view. It does not exhaust the possibilities of orthodox understandings of the Trinity, or human relationships.