This is the same topic. Do you not think blaspheming the Creator of the Universe by living a life of rebellion is exactly what it is talking about since it fits all of the rest of scripture? I have shown you from the torah that willful, defiant sin is grounds for being cut off. How can there be forgiveness without repentance?


Mat 7:20 "So then, by their fruits you shall know them –
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens.
Mat 7:22 "Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’
Mat 7:23 "And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!
 
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BukiRob

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If Satan is able to produce genuine miracles wouldn't that mean he is a god ?.... There is no God but Hashem

Not at all. 2 Thessalonians 2: 8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Mt 24:24 (NIV) "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible."

Rev 13:11-15 (NIV) Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

Rev 16:13-15 (NIV) Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."

Rev 19:20 (NIV) But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Seems very, very clear that he has been given or has always had the power to perform signs and wonders.

Were told that HaSatan masquerades as an "angel of light"
 
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Alithis

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True, but Yeshua mentioned this thing in the context of the Pharisees criticizing Yeshua's exorcism of a demon, where they suggested he drove out the demon by the power of another demon, or specifically Satan.
well i'ts is simply attributing the power of the holy Spirit to the power of the evil spirit - a denial then of the very essence of the person of G-d and a declaration that g-d canot and therefore the wicked spirit is stronger ... all accumulates to be .. blasphemy againt the holy Spirit .
 
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visionary

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Satan can not imitate, the "Holy" spirit, he may come off as bright, smart, but never holy.... in fact, when some say that they have the "Holy Spirit" and lay on the floor babbling in spasmodic episode reminiscent of those who have Epileptic episodes, that is not the behavior of God or His Holy Spirit.
 
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BukiRob

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The prince of this world


Yes Paul calls him a god little g

He only has angelic power imo


And? Angles had the power of miracles. Did not the angles strike the evil men of Sodom with Blindness when they were pressing Lot to release his men to them?

Gen 19:11 They struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves trying to find the doorway.
 
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dfw69

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And? Angles had the power of miracles. Did not the angles strike the evil men of Sodom with Blindness when they were pressing Lot to release his men to them?

Gen 19:11 They struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves trying to find the doorway.

True but an angel could also refer to the lord ... Jacob wrestle with an angel which was the lord ...only the lord performs miracles so the Angels must have been the lord himself
 
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visionary

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The powers in the angel realm is not as powerful as the Lord's, but it's more powerful than our's.

Ephesians 6:12-13
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual
forces of evil
in the heavenly realms.

Yes, more powerful than us ...

2 Peter 2:11 … yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful [than us], do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.

 
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Think I may have figured this one out.

Here is a possible definition of the sin called "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". I think it is the safest and least conjectural definition.

From the context, it seems it could be defined safely as:

To interrupt an (effective) excorcism,
or to even condemn the (positive) outcome of an effective excorcism;

thus one is aiding or rooting for or taking the side of the demon,
as opposed to the side of the Holy Spirit
(which is the force the excorcist uses to excorcise the demon).


It might even have a much more specific definition, which would be: implying that an effective excorcism of a demon is actually being performed by demonic power. This is the same as the definition above (bolded), except it involves a charge of demons or demonic powers collaborating to fake an excorcism, basically. This latter definition is actually more literally true to the text, but I suspect the above definition (bolded) might be the intended lesson of the text.
If I may say....

In 1 John 5 we are told of some situations where we should pray for someone in sin, but that we are not to pray for sin leading unto death.

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

V. 16 seems to say that we can pray for the sins of others.....and that same verse also says there is a sin that leads.

From what I've seen, I think sometimes we may read past some very direct things when it comes to what unforgiveable sin is - and perhaps it's just me....but as I John was focused on God as Love and our relationship to God as expressed to others (such as I John 4 when he calls us to love others if we love GOD or else we're liars when claiming to believe in Him - and we love because he first loved us), I tend to be open to the thought that the unforgiveable sin is simply failure to truly love.

And one key aspect of love is forgiveness..

Love is a gift from the Lord He has given freely in light of how we're able to experience His Mercy Daily and have even before knowing of Christ - is something we have to offer to others.....the gift of forgivness being something necessary if one is to truly be a part of the Kingdom of God since a lack of forgiveness is something the Lord repeatedly warned on


Luke 6:37
[ Do Not Judge ] “Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.



Mark 11:25
[ Forgiveness and Prayer ] “And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.

Matthew 6:13-14
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.[c]
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Matthew 18:29-31
29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet[d] and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’[e] 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”[f]


When Jesus taught his disciples to pray, he made forgiveness the cornerstone of their relationship with God. For God has forgiven our sins and so we must forgive those who have wronged us - but to remain unforgiving shows we have not understood that we ourselves deeply need to be forgiven. When we don't forgive others, we are denying our common ground as sinners in need of God's forgiveness. Of course, God's forgiveness of sin is not the direct result of our forgiving others, but it is based on our realizing what forgiveness (Ephesians 4:32).....and there's a reason St. James noted that we should speak and act as those who're going to be judged by the law that gives freedom because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful - Mercy TRIUMPS over judgment (James 2:12-13).

And in many respects, when it comes to lacking mercy, this is something the Pharisees whom Christ spoke against sadly fell into. They saw others healed from being demon-possessed and even others who were blind or mute being healed - and yet while others were rejoicing over the matter, they could only accuse...their hearts were ones not concerned with showing mercy/compassion to others as they needed it ...and interestingly enough, in that culture, there was often a mindset that people born with the things Jesus healed were ones who deserved to deal with them - a matter of God's judgment (the view akin to Retribution Theology that was widespread in Biblical times and an issue that often had to be addressed by Christ) -with the dynamics of leaving others to their fate almost like how a caste system would be when you feel others were meant to be where they are.... and thus, certain Pharisees wouldn't be concerned with helping them or doing anything. That's what happens when we think ourselves deserving more of God's Mercy/touch more than others - we end up slandering it in others whom receive it. And in doing so, we slander the Lord..

The Pharisees had blasphemed against the Spirit (as noted in Matthew 12:22-38) by attributing the power by which Christ did miracles to Satan instead of the Holy Spirit. They had done this before in Matthew 9:32-34 when Jesus earlier healed those who were demon-possessed, even though Jesus didn't say anything at the time. In fact, in Matthew 9, the Pharisees accused Jesus of four different sins: blasphemy (when proclaiming forgiveness for the man who was paralyzed man in Matthew 9:1-4 ...perhaps needing to know indeed God had brought forgiveness to Him ...a vital part of proclaiming the Kingdom of God), befriending sinners (Matthew 9:10-12 - when he was at the house of Matthew the tax collector), impiety and serving Satan....Jesus was maligned by those who should have received him the most gladly.....and the Pharisees did all this because (1) Jesus bypassed their religious authority, (2) He weakened their control over the people and (3) he challenged their cherished beliefs while exposing their insincere/hypocritical motives.

But again, the Pharisees in their first accusation of "By demons he casts out demons" in Matthew 9 was left alone by Christ...and later on, Christ chose to address the matter for what it was. What occurred was a culmination of what was in their hearts - a lack of love for both God (whom they didn't want to submit to by rejoicing in His work for others - the essence of love) and Man (by having no desire to see others be forgiven or healed/transformed by God even as they would want God to work in their lives). When you attiribute to the devil what is a work of the Holy Spirit, it reveals a heart-attitude of unbelief and unrepentance...deliberate, ongoing rejection of the work of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy because it is rejecting God himself. And thus, Jesus said they couldn't be forgiven - not because their sin was worse than any other, but because they would never ask forgiveness nor extend it. This is something that is intimately tied to what Jesus noted when speaking on prayer in Luke 18 - first speaking on the importance of consistent prayer like the widow did with the unjust judge (in contrast to God who gives justice to those crying out for it) ..and yet noting afterward what can keep prayer from being answered when pointing out the Parable of the Two Men who prayed (as it concerns those confident in their own righteousness/looked down upon others) and showing how the Pharisee exalting himself compared to others considered the "worst of the worst" would not be justified before God ...while the one Tax Collector crying out for God's Mercy/not even looking to Heaven was accepted since he humbled himself.

With the unforgivable sin being unforgiveness or mercy, you can see how the religious leaders did this often - similar to people today speaking on how much God's mercy is available for all and yet they deny it to others they don't like ...or how, to be personal, I may choose to hold a grudge toward people who were living wild ...repented...and yet they were quickly able to advance a lot/seem MORE blessed when compared to myself or others who served God for a long time/felt that they didn't do anything to deserve THAT much of God's mercy or blessing.

To assume "It's not fair - they don't deserve God's forgiveness or blessing in their life..but I do" - that's a lack of understanding God's heart....and what I refuse to extend for others, God will refuse to extend for me. By saying "It's not right that you delivered them rather than letting them suffer as they deserve - I REFUSE to even pray anything good for them", we'd be saying "Holy Spirit - the work you're doing in their hearts is not truly a GODLY Work...it's of the Devil" - and in doing so, I cut myself off from working with the Lord since He cannot truly work in my own life when I cut off being merciful or giving forgiveness.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit results in Spiritual death (Mark 3:29) and the book of Hebrews describes the spiritual death of the person who turns against Christ - and With I John 5:17, when it comes to saying there is a sin that leads to death, the love (with forgiveness/mercy) dynamic seems hard to escape seeing that St. John already noted what it meant to be in death...as seen here:

1 John 3:8-24

The Imperative of Love

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother[a] abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

The Outworking of Love

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us[c] commandment.



Not having love is death - and although there are other sins that don't automatically lead to ultimate death in eternity (like sins hindering us from being fully effective/productive in this life even as we seek the Lord - besetting sins we battle with ..addictions to bad habits/mindsets or deceptions..hidden faults like Psalm 19:13 that can enslave us...things St. James said we're to do with confession of sins like James 5:15-16 or St. John in I John 1:1-10), the reality is that the one sin which will hinder us is choosing not to LOVE God/others.

And love covers..

Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up strife,
But love covers all sins..


St. Paul noted the same dynamic in I Corinthians 13 when it came to the issue of what it meant when seeing how one had NOTHING if they had not love - the thing we're to strive for the most.

And the concept was so important that even St. Peter - after warning on being in the End Times and needing to be alert - seemed to repeat it as if saying even in being aware and yet imperfect, the one thing we needed to do above all else was have fervent love..as if that would truly cover everything else.

1 Peter 4:7-9 (NKJV)
Serving for God’s Glory

7 But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers. 8 And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.”[a] 9 Be hospitable to one another without grumbling.


Archimandrite Irenei explored a series of patristic texts that deal with the imperative of forgiveness, and the need to forgive as the gateway into the life offered by Christ in the Church....as seen in "Shall We Forgive? The Fathers on Forgiveness as the Gateway to Salvation"
 
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BukiRob

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True but an angel could also refer to the lord ... Jacob wrestle with an angel which was the lord ...only the lord performs miracles so the Angels must have been the lord himself
If you read the account in Genesis it is very clear that this is not "The Angle of the Lord"
 
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Hoshiyya

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and its translated in every version of every lexicon as god

Actually Theon, much like Kami, Deva, El, Ruach, Pneuma, Spiritus, Spirit, Daimon, etc, has a range of meaning. (Not to mention that "God/Gott/Guþ" itself historically has a range of meaning in the Germanic languages.)

Ruach haqodesh, if you want to be snide, just means "holy breath". If Latin, Greek, Hebrew words etc. can only have one definition per word, then guess what, the scriptures instantly cease making sense. We would never make it as far as Paul, because we'd be stuck back in Genesis.
 
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visionary

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I think the word "Holy" is more alive than just a title attached to doors, altars, books, and God's spirit. It is His Eminence. The very Essence of Him. It convicts, converts, instills truth, speaks to the heart, and embodies all that God's character is in spirit and in truth.
 
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