Finally Solved: What is Blaphemy of the Holy Spirit

[visionary]

I suppose there can be something to say about righteous anger.

Yeah.. righteous anger is not done without forethought and controlled justification.

 

[Extraneous]

Yeah.. righteous anger is not done without forethought and controlled justification.

Well, no ones perfect.

 

[visionary]

it does, and my heart is something i'm still trying to figure out too. the entire body is wonderful, i want it to be one perfect integrated thing for God. i'm hoping that the sexual nature will stop being insane too, because I dunno how to get rid of that but I heard that maybe it could be purified and help push me to better things rather than tormenting me. also I noticed that if I fast that my stomach, or whatever it is that does that, can feel towards God too. the feeling of empty out of love for God is not something I do enough. it is weird how the flesh will often forget the very good spiritual things that i could do. but the higher parts of me deserve to live and the lower parts should die if they won't love God. but sadly i'm not always so aware but I feel that it is bad to just be existing unconsciously, automatically ( like being in empty moments in your life where your brain thinks dumb and useless things and it won't shut up). even if I don't feel anything I know it is because God wants me to be free of everything, but it is hard sometimes because i'm in a world of so many things even though i can feel God in various things sometimes and peoples souls give me pleasure even though i'm not always so loving. and at the same time I have to be a soul, I can't just fade away, I must be for the Lord.

but to judge reality all the way is too hard, better to be completely pure and innocent which I suppose will naturally happen by the rejection of evil, the kingdom of darkness, in myself. I just hate when i don't notice it or when evils seem to occur because of other peoples perceptions of how someone should conduct themselves in the world. ah, loves makes everything so much easier, it is the answer to all problems and the best manner to conduct all of reality. evil is not needed at all, for it's only purpose seems to be to reject it and not be it.

righteous anger... to hate evil and depart from it. but woe to those who love to hate evil and forget to love God. quickly you shall turn into what you hate when you make that what you are about. i know that the Lord craves free love and innocence, I wish we could be so innocent to die for him without any evils grabbing hold of us.

Battling desires.. is best not to. When you get the urge... hand it over to God... and think no more on it... it is in His hands and in His time.

 

[Hoshiyya]

to blaspheme the Holy Spirit means essentially to call good evil and evil good

That may or may not be the case, I'm interested in theories based directly on the actual text of the word of God. Nothing in the text specifically says this.

how can one be forgiven when they think good is evil and evil good?

Easy. In fact forgiveness in Greek connotes charity, unmerited kindness. By definition, it is unmerited, unconditional. Your condition does not apply.

 

[Hoshiyya]

There is a fine line between discerning and dictating ... Those who think they know, because of their faith, may actually miss out of the real miracles. Yeshua, during His first ministry, did not require valid religious affiliations before healing them.

In one case, when the disciples were upset that a fellow was out casting out devils, without being "one of us", Yeshua got after the disciples about it rather than the fellow.

Luke 9:49 John answered, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us.”

The person possessed is a victim. A good doctor only tries to help his patients, he doesn't make them feel guilty. If he ever wants to see those patients again.

 

[Noxot]

Easy. In fact forgiveness in Greek connotes charity, unmerited kindness. By definition, it is unmerited, unconditional. Your condition does not apply.

then the devil would see the opposite of that and therefore be trapped in his lies

 

[Noxot]

I would like to add this for consideration because I don't think people have quoted it yet?

Isa 63:10 (YLT)
And they have rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit, And He turneth to them for an enemy, He Himself hath fought against them.

this I believe to be another picture of evil eyes distorting reality and the nature of God.

satan can't cast out satan and so the evil ones against God are satan. calling the Holy Spirit such wicked things makes you into the demons for the Holy Spirit is all the virtues of God. "you are either with me or are against me"

 

[jason1]

Willful and rebellious sin is what causes the blasphemy, not words.

 

[Hoshiyya]

then the devil would see the opposite of that and therefore be trapped in his lies

ok?

 

[Hoshiyya]

Willful and rebellious sin is what causes the blasphemy, not words.

If blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, or anything else of this nature, is defined by our reason and not by the text, then we're basically guessing. We may guess right, but we don't need to guess, we have the text.

If we're gonna speculate without quoting the text, I'd be far more interested in hearing speculation dealing with the question of why God would forgive blasphemy against himself and against his son, but not against the Holy Spirit.

 

[jason1]

If blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, or anything else of this nature, is defined by our reason and not by the text, then we're basically guessing. We may guess right, but we don't need to guess, we have the text.

If we're gonna speculate without quoting the text, I'd be far more interested in hearing speculation dealing with the question of why God would forgive blasphemy against himself and against his son, but not against the Holy Spirit.

I did quote the scripture in this thread earlier, so here it is again:


Num 15:29 ‘For him who does whatever by mistake there is one Torah, both for him who is native among the children of Yisra’ĕl and for the stranger who sojourns in their midst.

Num 15:30 ‘But the being who does whatever defiantly, whether he is native or a stranger, he reviles יהוה, and that being shall be cut off from among his people.

Num 15:31 ‘Because he has despised the word of יהוה, and has broken His command, that being shall certainly be cut off, his crookedness is upon him.’ "

 

[Hoshiyya]

I did quote the scripture in this thread earlier, so here it is again:


Num 15:29 ‘For him who does whatever by mistake there is one Torah, both for him who is native among the children of Yisra’ĕl and for the stranger who sojourns in their midst.

Num 15:30 ‘But the being who does whatever defiantly, whether he is native or a stranger, he reviles יהוה, and that being shall be cut off from among his people.

Num 15:31 ‘Because he has despised the word of יהוה, and has broken His command, that being shall certainly be cut off, his crookedness is upon him.’ "

This could just as well be called "blasphemy of the Father", or better yet and more accurately, it could just be called "disobedience" or "defiance", which is the term used by the English translators here. Defiance and blasphemy are literally two different things. (You can be defiant without speaking or writing, but blasphemy/slander is a communication, it is a genre of speech basically.) I don't see the Holy Spirit mentioned here. What makes these 3 verses connect to the post-excorcismal statements in the gospels on the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" ?

Your interpretation seems to say that ANY sin that is not 100% accidental qualifies as "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit", an idea which I do not find plausible or present in the text. (Though I could've misinterpreted you on that.)

 

[jason1]

This could just as well be called "blasphemy of the Father",

The Father is spirit and He is "holy" or set apart. There is no other deity that needs to be invented.

an idea which I do not find plausible or present in the text.

Willful and defiant sin warranted death. There were no sacrifices for willful sin. Heb 10 helps sum this up:


Heb 10:26 For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins,1Footnote: 1See also 6:6, Heb. 9:7, Num. 15:15-28.
Heb 10:27 but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour?
Heb 10:30 For we know Him who has said, "Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה." And again, "יהוה shall judge His people."
Heb 10:31 It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.

 

[Hoshiyya]

The Father is spirit and He is "holy" or set apart. There is no other deity that needs to be invented.

I'm not a Trinitarian, nor trying to invent a deity. God is one. If you don't want to answer a logical question and tell me this instead, that's fine, but not helpful.

(I get the sense you also conflate defiance and blasphemy. They overlap in some respects, I'm sure, but they are not identical.)

There were no sacrifices for willful sin.

There was, it was called the Yom Kippur sacrifice. This itself pointed to Yeshua, who invited willful sinners to come to repentance, including Shaul/Paul.

Look, you're basically saying there is no such thing as forgiveness.

 

[jason1]

I'm not a Trinitarian, nor trying to invent a deity. God is one. If you don't want to answer a logical question and tell me this instead, that's fine, but not helpful.

(I get the sense you also conflate defiance and blasphemy. They overlap in some respects, I'm sure, but they are not identical.)



There was, it was called the Yom Kippur sacrifice. This itself pointed to Yeshua, who invited willful sinners to come to repentance, including Shaul/Paul.

Look, you're basically saying there is no such thing as forgiveness.

I ask you this then since you aren't accepting my explanation: Can a person be forgiven if they are in willful rebellion and unrepentant?

I never said there wasn't any type of forgiveness, you conflated that one

 

[Hoshiyya]

I ask you this then since you aren't accepting my explanation: Can a person be forgiven if they are in willful rebellion and unrepentant?

I never said there wasn't any type of forgiveness, you conflated that one

"I never said there wasn't any type of forgiveness"

I said "you're basically saying there is no forgiveness", and it appears you are indeed doing this. Your soteriological reductionism results in very very few people being even eligible for salvation, and it makes it something to be earned, which literally contradicts the meaning of the Greek word charis used in the Bible, translated "mercy" or "grace", which denotes unmerited favor and is the etymological origin of the word "grace."

God's grace is wholly undeserved by mankind. It has not been, and cannot be, earned.

"Can a person be forgiven if they are in willful rebellion and unrepentant?

The vast majority of our sins don't get punished. If God were to punish us for all our sins, we would just... die. Neither of us would be here typing. So obviously God overlooks most of our sins, in the sense that he doesn't punish them.

To give a fuller answer to your question would mean to get into a whole soteriological discussion, which isn't really meaningful. I'm trying to share my findings relative to the contextual definition of the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit", that is all.

 

[jason1]

Your soteriological reductionism results in very very few people being even eligible for salvation,

Exactly what the master says too:

Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen.

So obviously God overlooks most of our sins, in the sense that he doesn't punish them.

Ever heard of judgement day?

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Exactly what the master says too:

Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen.



Ever heard of judgement day?

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to their works.

It says MANY are called, but as I interpret your view, it seems few are called.

As I said, to adress your question fully would mean to engage in a fruitless soteriological debate and to switch the actual topic of discussion.

 

[jason1]

It says MANY are called, but as I interpret your view, it seems few are called.

As I said, to adress your question fully would mean to engage in a fruitless soteriological debate and to switch the actual topic of discussion.

Many are called - To obey the Father in submission to His torah

Few are chosen - Most don't want to obey what He says


Mat 7:20 "So then, by their fruits you shall know them –
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens.
Mat 7:22 "Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’
Mat 7:23 "And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!

 

[Hoshiyya]

...

I'm not interested in changing topics.

I'm interested in exploring the contextual definition of the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit."