Homemade Clock (Social Experiment)

ThatRobGuy

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What that lad made only looks like a bomb to those who have watched too many movies.

...or those who have seen too many public service announcements.

...or read the teacher's handbooks at 90% of the public schools in the US.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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If they thought it was a bomb, they would have evacuated the school and called in the bomb squad, they did not. :yawn:

In the interview with school spokesperson and the chief of police, I believe they mentioned that they knew fairly quickly that it wasn't a bomb, however, they were trying to assess whether or not he was trying to create a "bomb hoax" -- meaning they were trying to figure out if he was trying to make people think it was a bomb.

For example, if a kid painted a squirt gun black and removed the orange tip, the untrained eye might think it's a real gun, however, the cops are going to know pretty quick that it's not real and therefore aren't going to call in the swat team...however, they're still going to have a lot of questions to ask.
 
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JGG

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i can't speak for anyone else, but I never thought racism was central to the issue. What irritated me was the school and police response to the item, not the individual student. I'm not surprised people think his ethnicity was part of the issue, but it wasn't my initial reaction.

Maybe idiots why think a suitcase with wires are dangerous upset me more than racists, i don't know.

Yeah, this is what I said too. The real problem is that this kid did something somewhat remarkable, demonstrating a love of science, technology and learning, and he was punished for it.
 
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TheQuietRiot

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...or those who have seen too many public service announcements.

...or read the teacher's handbooks at 90% of the public schools in the US.

I have no issue with them checking whether it was actually a bomb, after all its better to be safe then sorry.
 
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TheQuietRiot

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Check. Sure. But follow the protocols.

Of course.

Although I'm not sure what that would of been in a US school.

In the UK if a suspicious package or bag is purported to be a bomb then the rozzers seal off the area and send a trained bomb squad to check it out. It's happened a few times within the last few years in my city, all false alarms.
 
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Armoured

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Of course.

Although I'm not sure what that would of been in a US school.

In the UK if a suspicious package or bag is purported to be a bomb then the rozzers seal off the area and send a trained bomb squad to check it out. It's happened a few times within the last few years in my city, all false alarms.
I don't know exactly what that school's protocol is, but pretty sure "pick up the suspicious object, giving it a darn good shake as you do so, and send the object and its bearer to the principal" isn't part of it.
 
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RDKirk

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In the interview with school spokesperson and the chief of police, I believe they mentioned that they knew fairly quickly that it wasn't a bomb, however, they were trying to assess whether or not he was trying to create a "bomb hoax" -- meaning they were trying to figure out if he was trying to make people think it was a bomb.

That should have been cleared up by the fact that the first thing he did was show it to the electronics teacher.

And after the kid was officially cleared by the police even of the bomb hoax suspicion, the school still suspended him.
 
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JGG

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Of course.

Although I'm not sure what that would of been in a US school.

In the UK if a suspicious package or bag is purported to be a bomb then the rozzers seal off the area and send a trained bomb squad to check it out. It's happened a few times within the last few years in my city, all false alarms.

Maybe this Texas town has a particularly lazy bomb squad.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Oh come one - the guy goes up to people and asks, "Does this look like a clock or a bomb?"

Yeah, that's just the same.

If you recall, in a few of those scenes, he just sits down and opens it up...and some people get on edge. Did you watch the entire video? (Particularly the mall security scene?)

Someone else in this thread already used the reasoning that because "the guy in the video wasn't the same age as Ahmed, that it doesn't count".

...if a white kid the same age did this and got the same results, there'd just be another excuse "he wasn't wearing glasses like Ahmed was...it doesn't count"

People seem absolutely desperate to cling to the idea that this incident was 100% about "Islamaphobia"
 
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Belk

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I don't know exactly what that school's protocol is, but pretty sure "pick up the suspicious object, giving it a darn good shake as you do so, and send the object and its bearer to the principal" isn't part of it.

The account I read had the teacher keeping it at their desk and the principle coming to Ahmeds class and collecting him during 6th period. I'm still going to guess "Throw bomb into a spare drawer" occurs on exactly 0 protocols. :p
 
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keith99

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If you recall, in a few of those scenes, he just sits down and opens it up...and some people get on edge. Did you watch the entire video? (Particularly the mall security scene?)

Someone else in this thread already used the reasoning that because "the guy in the video wasn't the same age as Ahmed, that it doesn't count".

...if a white kid the same age did this and got the same results, there'd just be another excuse "he wasn't wearing glasses like Ahmed was...it doesn't count"

People seem absolutely desperate to cling to the idea that this incident was 100% about "Islamaphobia"

Actually anything like this, which was a 'test' that was run many times has one huge difference from Ahmed's case.

Ahmed was a known student at the school. Any person just walking into a mall or bus stop is almost by definition unknown, a stranger. People reasonably suspect those unknown to them more than people known to them (well unless the known person has given them reason not to trust him).

I scanned through the video, did I miss the part where he gets handcuffed or for that matter even a part where the police show up?
 
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ViaCrucis

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The content of a number of the posts on this thread have deeply bothered me. Sometimes when I come across certain kinds of statements I get angry and find myself with little more to say than to deride; but very often I'm upset by things and the only response I have is deep sadness and a frustration of not knowing if a response should be made at all or in what form it should.

In this case after some time to reflect two distinct thoughts I felt worth sharing. Both are quotes and references which I have gone back to frequently over the years because they never cease to seem relevant in these contexts.

The first is a quote attributed to Sinclair Lewis (though Lewis never actually said it/wrote it), "When Fascism comes to America it will come cloaked in the flag and waving a cross."

The second may take a bit of background.

There was a German Lutheran pastor by the name of Dietrich Bonhoeffer who lived during the Nazi regime; when the Nazis were gaining power Pastor Bonhoeffer spoke against them rather publicly through his radio program--until it was shut down. Bonhoeffer fled Germany, seeing the writing on the wall as it were, to the United States where he spent time at Union Theological Seminary in Harlem, NY. Bonhoeffer saw parallels between the treatment of African Americans in the US and what was starting to happen with Jews in Germany. Ultimately Bonhoeffer felt that it would be a betrayal of his faith to abandon his native Germany in its time of need--he returned to Germany and worked with many different underground pastors to create a network of underground churches. This was done because the official churches had been co-opted by the Nazis, organized as the Reichskirche with the official dogma being Positive Christianity,

220px-Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg.png
.
This was the flag of Positive Christianity as used by the Deutsche Christen ("German Christians") and the Reichskirche.

Bonhoeffer and other clergy in rejecting the Reichskirche and the Deutsche Christen movement formed the Confessing Church, and underground church which, with the help of well-known Swiss theologian Karl Barth put forward the Theological Declaration of Barmen; an articulation of faith in Jesus Christ which was a significant slap in the face of Hitler and the Nazis. The Declaration, for example, explicitly says the Christian Church knows no leaders (fuehrers) apart from Christ and the Office of the Ministry; there can therefore be no place for Hitler in the life of the Christian Church.

Bonhoeffer was a man who advocated peace, though his position on peace was not passivity, but an active non-violence. Which he writes extensively about, in part, in his most well known published work The Cost of Discipleship.

Ultimately Bonhoeffer would agree to be complicit and take part in the secret plot to assassinate Hitler; for Bonhoeffer a dedicated pacifist considered such a move to be a necessary act in order to put an end to such wanton evil in the world, the plot famously failed and Bonhoeffer's involvement found out, he was imprisoned in a concentration camp and hanged just a few short months before the Allies liberated that very camp.

Bonhoeffer's legacy is in part largely thanks to the tireless work of his student and close friend Eberhard Bethge; Bethge believed Bonhoeffer should be known to the world at large, and is also responsible for collecting, editing, and publishing the works which Bonhoeffer managed to scrap together while in prison, including Ethics, which was never finished due to Bonhoeffer's tragic death.

With that background, here's the main thing: In the 1970s Eberhard Bethge and his family visited the United States, while there they were invited by the Rev. Jerry Falwell to visit his college, known today as Liberty University but I believe it was still Lynchburg Baptist College then. At a gathering of students all attendees, including the Bethges, received belt buckles with the image of the American bald eagle and the phrase "Jesus first!". Bethge was justifiably put off by this, how could he ignore the obvious parallel with what he had seen happen in his own Germany with the blending of nationalism and religion, and in particular something such as this:

buckle.jpeg


For Bethge this seemed like a very obvious co-opting of the Christian faith, a co-opting of Jesus, by American right-wingers. This particular Jesus was an American Jesus.

Eberhard Bethge passed away in the year 2000 at the age of 90, a witness to the atrocities of the Nazis and the flagrant apostasy of the German churches, and a witness to the beginnings of America's move toward something dark; an American Reichskirche.

"When Fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

christian-heart-clip-art-275564.gif


-CryptoLutheran
 
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keith99

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The content of a number of the posts on this thread have deeply bothered me. Sometimes when I come across certain kinds of statements I get angry and find myself with little more to say than to deride; but very often I'm upset by things and the only response I have is deep sadness and a frustration of not knowing if a response should be made at all or in what form it should.

In this case after some time to reflect two distinct thoughts I felt worth sharing. Both are quotes and references which I have gone back to frequently over the years because they never cease to seem relevant in these contexts.

The first is a quote attributed to Sinclair Lewis (though Lewis never actually said it/wrote it), "When Fascism comes to America it will come cloaked in the flag and waving a cross."

The second may take a bit of background.

There was a German Lutheran pastor by the name of Dietrich Bonhoeffer who lived during the Nazi regime; when the Nazis were gaining power Pastor Bonhoeffer spoke against them rather publicly through his radio program--until it was shut down. Bonhoeffer fled Germany, seeing the writing on the wall as it were, to the United States where he spent time at Union Theological Seminary in Harlem, NY. Bonhoeffer saw parallels between the treatment of African Americans in the US and what was starting to happen with Jews in Germany. Ultimately Bonhoeffer felt that it would be a betrayal of his faith to abandon his native Germany in its time of need--he returned to Germany and worked with many different underground pastors to create a network of underground churches. This was done because the official churches had been co-opted by the Nazis, organized as the Reichskirche with the official dogma being Positive Christianity,

220px-Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg.png
.
This was the flag of Positive Christianity as used by the Deutsche Christen ("German Christians") and the Reichskirche.

Bonhoeffer and other clergy in rejecting the Reichskirche and the Deutsche Christen movement formed the Confessing Church, and underground church which, with the help of well-known Swiss theologian Karl Barth put forward the Theological Declaration of Barmen; an articulation of faith in Jesus Christ which was a significant slap in the face of Hitler and the Nazis. The Declaration, for example, explicitly says the Christian Church knows no leaders (fuehrers) apart from Christ and the Office of the Ministry; there can therefore be no place for Hitler in the life of the Christian Church.

Bonhoeffer was a man who advocated peace, though his position on peace was not passivity, but an active non-violence. Which he writes extensively about, in part, in his most well known published work The Cost of Discipleship.

Ultimately Bonhoeffer would agree to be complicit and take part in the secret plot to assassinate Hitler; for Bonhoeffer a dedicated pacifist considered such a move to be a necessary act in order to put an end to such wanton evil in the world, the plot famously failed and Bonhoeffer's involvement found out, he was imprisoned in a concentration camp and hanged just a few short months before the Allies liberated that very camp.

Bonhoeffer's legacy is in part largely thanks to the tireless work of his student and close friend Eberhard Bethge; Bethge believed Bonhoeffer should be known to the world at large, and is also responsible for collecting, editing, and publishing the works which Bonhoeffer managed to scrap together while in prison, including Ethics, which was never finished due to Bonhoeffer's tragic death.

With that background, here's the main thing: In the 1970s Eberhard Bethge and his family visited the United States, while there they were invited by the Rev. Jerry Falwell to visit his college, known today as Liberty University but I believe it was still Lynchburg Baptist College then. At a gathering of students all attendees, including the Bethges, received belt buckles with the image of the American bald eagle and the phrase "Jesus first!". Bethge was justifiably put off by this, how could he ignore the obvious parallel with what he had seen happen in his own Germany with the blending of nationalism and religion, and in particular something such as this:

buckle.jpeg


For Bethge this seemed like a very obvious co-opting of the Christian faith, a co-opting of Jesus, by American right-wingers. This particular Jesus was an American Jesus.

Eberhard Bethge passed away in the year 2000 at the age of 90, a witness to the atrocities of the Nazis and the flagrant apostasy of the German churches, and a witness to the beginnings of America's move toward something dark; an American Reichskirche.

"When Fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

christian-heart-clip-art-275564.gif


-CryptoLutheran

You have a few details wrong. I'm taking the time to detail them because for once I will be talking to a Christian who I think cares about getting things right.

Dietrich was executed at Flossenburg on April 9, 1945. The camp was liberated not months but days later on April 23, 1945. Flossenburg was not where he had been held and I'm pretty sure where he had been previously was liberated sooner, likely before his execution.

As best I can find Dietrich did not have a radio show. Bethge's comments regarding his radio address of Feb 1, 1933 (Dietrich Bonhoeffer pages 193-194) make it doubtful that he had any regular show. (we come to think of today as normal, there were not scores of radio stations in 1933 Germany, likely less than a handful). Also radio was live. Contrary to what is usually reported about this incident Bonhoeffer was not cut off in the middle of the speech, he was cut off with just a couple of lines remaining. Bethge raises serious doubts about this being an intentional act by a Nazi version of big brother. Bethge's doubts center on the timing, the Nazis had come to full power just 2 days before. It also seems that the radio address comes off entirely differently missing those last few sentences.

Finally your statement that Bonhoeffer eventually came involved in the conspiracy against Hitler while true in one sense, that he did not come to that conclusion quickly or easily, is misleading. Bonhoeffer was involved in the assassination plots at least as early as 1940, far earlier than others whose involvement is better known. He was involved in an earlier plot to arrest Hitler or have him declared insane, but that plot fizzled when the invasion of Czechoslovakia met minimal resistance.

EDIT:
Bonhoeffer had previously been at Buchenwald which was liberated on April 11, 1945. The timing would not have mattered anyway, Bethge reports that there was a general order to kill all special prisoners, a category Bonhoeffer was surely a part of.
 
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The Barbarian

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And after the kid was officially cleared by the police even of the bomb hoax suspicion, the school still suspended him.

It wasn't for want of trying. The police repeatedly refused his request to notify his parents or a lawyer, and were very put out that he continued to insist the device was a clock in defiance of their repeated demands that he say it was a bomb. This behavior, the police chief claimed, was "passive-aggressive."

If the police arrest or detain a child and refuse the child’s request to call his parents or another adult, or to talk to an attorney, there can be more consequences than the child’s statements being kept out in court.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...ense/can-cops-question-my-child-about-a-crime
 
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