And back to Duggar news

[DZoolander]

Apparently that Josh guy had a paid Ashley Madison account.

 

[bluegreysky]

if you're going to have a family of good religious people that large under one roof, someone is bound to fall off the table.

 

[Dave-W]

He had 2 accounts - one with his Arkansas address and another with his Washington DC address.

 

[DZoolander]

if you're going to have a family of good religious people that large under one roof, someone is bound to fall off the table.

You're taking for granted that any of them are good religious people, and not just opportunists.

 

[bluegreysky]

or that

 

[puregrl]

I agree with bluegreysky. They are a good family from everything I have seen, even met them in person and they seem very genuine. However there is always that one in the family. He never seemed quite right anyways. But you cannot judge the whole family by the one bad kid...sometimes nature rules over nurture.

 

[Odetta]

I've been wondering about that. None of the other kids seem to have problems with sexual sin like this - and you know that people would have been looking for it. How is it, really, that one kid can turn out so differently from the rest of them from the same home, taught the same values, etc.? Is it a genetic mutation that leads to a proclivity? Is it that he took one step down that path early on, and kept going, never figuring out how to get off the path? Did the parents somehow parent Josh differently, given that he's older?

As a parent, this concerns me for my own children. Not necessarily this particular sin, but anything that becomes a detriment to their faith and witness. How can I truly (meaning permanently) positively influence their life choices when they have free will?

 

[DZoolander]

Well, you really can't, at least not with any sort of absolutes.

You just do your best to give them the best upbringing you can, attempt to be as cognizant as possible of what's going on with them (their strengths and weaknesses) and work from there.

As for the Duggars, I'll admit that I'm pretty cynical. I don't know if it's true or not - because you never know with social media and the internet - but I read recently that since they got cancelled they've been marketing a new reality TV show concept where they counsel on sexual abuse survival.

I'm sorry - but if that's true - that just reaffirms my conception of them as crass opportunists pandering to a specific market that ignores the messenger in the desperate attempt to get a message.

 

[puregrl]

This is where the whole nature vs nurture debate comes in. I believe they both have value. With some people, no matter how they are raised they will end up bad. Some people have personality and other disorders that cannot be controlled and are not even discovered until something like this happens. He may have had a different way of dealing with things that lead him down that path, he may have not listened as well as the other kids, may not have cared...could be a million possibilities.

Kids have free will yes. And unfortunately they are more influenced by peers and the media more than parents once they reach a certain age simply due to the contact hours. You have to be confident as a parent. Keep them in church, encourage them to be a part of good influences such as youth groups, college groups, any positive influences they can have. Be confident in your choices, in your actions. You have 18 years to make a positive influence in their lives and then just hope and pray they stay the course. "train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it" always comes to mind. Instill in them good values, set a good example, let them be themselves, listen and encourage.

 

[mkgal1]

But you cannot judge the whole family by the one bad kid...sometimes nature rules over nurture.

But.....is it fair to judge the "family values" and whole system they follow and look at the fruit it produced?

When you say "nature".....are you suggesting it's "natural" to lust and cheat on one's wife (and JD just didn't have the will to overcome that)?

 

[mkgal1]

"train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it"

It seems to me that the way JD has been trained is that women *will* cause men to lust (and men just can't "help it"). The whole "bouncing of the eyes" and younger sisters shielding the brothers from "seeing something that may cause them to lust" seems to have the framework that can lead to this (almost *expect* it). There's a fixation on sexuality in that whole community (even if it was to avoid it.....repress it...etc)....the fixation was still there.

They followed Gothard & his teaching---and Gothard was guilty of sexually abusing young girls. From what I understand---Josh's "training" was from a Gothard training center (see here what that entails). From that article, "Bill Gothard’s cult creates a world in which abuse thrives in secret, and those that need help the most are silenced and shamed."

I sincerely hope TLC doesn't allow them back on air.

 

[mkgal1]

Gothard's way of counseling sex abuse:

 

[sdmsanjose]

Josh Duggar having an account that encourages adultery tells me that josh did not have Christian control over sex as a youth and does not have one as an adult. Josh most certainly needs to not try and be a voice for Christian control.

As for the Duggars being involved in a sexual abuse survival TV show that does smell a little fishy to me. The only ones that may have some credibility are the sisters that were molested. I doubt that they would want to discuss how they have recovered from being molested by their brother in front of millions of viewers.

However, if true then I would agree with EZ and say that they are “…crass opportunists pandering to a specific market that ignores the messenger in the desperate attempt to get a message.”

At this point, other than Josh and his father, I have very little problem with the other Duggers. They have some unorthodox views on Christian life but it is their lives and they do not seem to be harming other people. However, I do not look to the Duggars to help me with my Christian life. They maybe evolving into the Christian version of Jerry Springer

 

[Hetta]

I was just talking about this with friends and imo if he had *anything* about him - if he genuinely meant a single word of his first confession, or genuinely felt repentance and sorrow for his actions, don't you think he would have said "that's not all, I've also been unfaithful to my wife, and I'm going to step back from public life and repent." But, uh no. He thought he had hidden this well enough and so he made his paltry little "sorry I got caught" speech about the molestation.

I just can't wait to see what his apologists have to say - no doubt it's the fault of that creepy "affair" website, or the fault of the women involved, or the fault of whoever exposed him. To them, it will never, ever be Josh Duggar's fault. And that's one of the things that will keep him safe from ever genuinely repenting (but just one), because he'll continue to believe people who make excuses for him. He needs to decide *no more excuses* and get proper counseling.

I checked today and his website with his wife is still up. They need to decide to take that down. They are in no position to advise *anyone* and especially not young couples.

I wish she wouldn't stand by him. I wish she'd pack his bags and tell him that when he has done 6 months of counseling and made some progress, he can come back - but not until then. And then I hope she gets her daughter checked out for any signs of abuse. <shudder>

 

[Hetta]

This is where the whole nature vs nurture debate comes in. I believe they both have value.

As a psych major that made me laugh. Yes, it has generally been agreed by experts that nature and nurture both have a hand in development.

With some people, no matter how they are raised they will end up bad.

It's his behavior that is bad.

Some people have personality and other disorders that cannot be controlled and are not even discovered until something like this happens.

It's not a "disorder", it's lust.

He may have had a different way of dealing with things that lead him down that path, he may have not listened as well as the other kids, may not have cared...could be a million possibilities.

Kids have free will yes. And unfortunately they are more influenced by peers and the media more than parents once they reach a certain age simply due to the contact hours. You have to be confident as a parent. Keep them in church, encourage them to be a part of good influences such as youth groups, college groups, any positive influences they can have. Be confident in your choices, in your actions. You have 18 years to make a positive influence in their lives and then just hope and pray they stay the course. "train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it" always comes to mind. Instill in them good values, set a good example, let them be themselves, listen and encourage.

He wasn't a "kid" when he chose to sign up and pay for a website through which ADULTS have extra-marital affairs, and he wasn't a kid when he chose to meet a woman or women from that website and have sex with them.

So you blame his peers and media, eh, even though his parents insist that the kids watched no tv and that they carefully vetted everyone with whom their kids came into contact. No public school for Josh, just homeschooling. Therefore, the only people that can be blamed for Josh's behavior is Josh and the particular brand of homeschooling (particularly Gothard as MK Gal says) which is twisted in the extreme.

 

[Deidre32]

You're taking for granted that any of them are good religious people, and not just opportunists.

I don't think they're opportunists, I just think that they are a lost and broken family. Why, we don't know.

 

[LinkH]

It's interesting that people want to talk about whether Josh Duggar's problem comes from nature versus nurture, just because they are familiar with his family as reality TV stars. When someone posts on the forum confessing a problem with inappropriate content or asking for comfort because of a spouse's problem with inappropriate content, we don't get into discussions on whether these people's problem with inappropriate content comes from bad DNA or how they were raised. Whatever the case, Josh Duggar has made some sinful decisions that led him to the situation he is in. He's likely being disciplined right now, in a very public way. Let's pray for him, his wife, and all his family who are going to get flack over this. For most people, if you find out your brother or son has a problem with inappropriate content or had an affair, there aren't reporters lined up to ask you about it and put your quotes in the newspaper.

I haven't watched the news for a little while now. I see references to Ashley Madison accounts as if we are supposed to know what that means. Was this famous before the hackers broke into it?

 

[Hetta]

The media wouldn't line up outside your door, because you haven't made millions portraying your family as the perfect Christian family. You start courting the press for the publicity, then you're going to have to deal with the press when they find out that you lied ... and lied ... and lied.

 

[Hetta]

Ashley Madison is a creepy affair website. People PAY to find others who are married and want to have affairs. And Josh Duggar joined the site and paid almost a thousand dollars for membership, and had sex with women he met there.

 

[Mayzoo]

His family and church encouraged him, despite his sexual abuse for a year or more of five young girls, to be a very public face in the media and essentially earn his living by talking about Christian values about sex. He also saw no legal ramifications, and very little any other form of ramifications, from his early illicit sexually abusive behaviour. IMO, this had to foster an idea that he could basically get away with any sexual behaviour he wanted while still being given kudos.

I am praying for him and whole family.