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NothingIsImpossible

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I love that on his profile hes listed as "Christian" and a few lines down hes looking for "Casual sex". Then under things he prefers when it comes to sex is things like... well I won't mention them. And then in other questions like "Have you cheated?" he puts yes. Really... and you title yourself as christian. I mean obviously only God knows his heart. But to make a public profile and say those things is like me saying I am a christian who partakes in satanic rituals for fun. It just doesn't make sense.
 
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Navari

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I have learned recently that being a "christian or saved" and following Christ are not the same thing. We are all called to refining fire in God's time. He is in control of our transformation. Yes our commitment plays a role in that, but at the end of the day, believing and understanding does not = instant transformation.

We all sin, most of us not as publicly as the Duggars. God is working on all of us. I'm not justifying his actions, he is absolutely wrong. I just think we need to remind ourselves that the rate of change and refinement is not up to us, the public.

Luke 5:32
27
After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. "Follow me," Jesus said to him, 28 and Levi got up, left everything and followed him. 29 Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. 30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" 31Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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After his latest apology, the cynic in me wonders if he's actually ashamed of what he's done, or that he got caught.
 
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Dave-W

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This is where the whole nature vs nurture debate comes in. I believe they both have value.
Both indeed have value; but IMO you are only looking at 2/3 of the options. We are body, [nature] soul, [nurture] and SPIRIT. IMO we also have a spiritual heritage that has nothing to do with genetics or environment. And it affects us more deeply than either nature or nurture.
 
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Dave-W

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I have learned recently that being a "christian or saved" and following Christ are not the same thing.
Recently? That is something every person should be taught very early on in their christian walk.
While our eternal destiny may be changed in a moment; following Messiah is something we have to grow in over time.
 
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Dave-W

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After his latest apology, the cynic in me wonders if he's actually ashamed of what he's done, or that he got caught.
Luke 17:4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”

The instruction here is clear: we are to assume that the repentance is genuine.
 
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DZoolander

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For most people, if you find out your brother or son has a problem with inappropriate content or had an affair, there aren't reporters lined up to ask you about it and put your quotes in the newspaper.

I haven't watched the news for a little while now. I see references to Ashley Madison accounts as if we are supposed to know what that means. Was this famous before the hackers broke into it?

Like others have mentioned - Ashley Madison is a website that purports facilitating people finding affairs. I became aware of the site because for a while they had a pretty hefty advertising campaign on radio near my house. I remember when I first heard the ads - I was astonished. Kind of a "Really? You're advertising *that*? That's what your business is?" response. The sheer audacity and spectacle of the kind of site it is/was (is it still up?) made it memorable.

I would assume the advertising blitz was national - given that a lot of other people are familiar with it as well. I'd also assume that the reason they know what it is - is for the same reason I found it memorable. The shock value of what the business is left an impression.

As for JD and why he's got reporters, though, while others who are guilty of the same types of things aren't...well...c'mon. You seriously don't understand why that is?

Other people don't make a spectacle out of themselves giving the impression they are the example to be beheld. Comparatively speaking - I'm a far better example for how to handle your marriage and how to be "righteous" within a relationship. But do I ever hold myself up as such? No, I really don't. I mind my own business, treat my wife with respect, and go about my day.

The degree of spectacle you'll face when your problems become public/known is directly related to the level of irony/hypocrisy people find in it. People assume if you're selling a message, you believe in it and do your best to live by it, otherwise it would not be a worthwhile lesson to be sold (and/or you certainly are not the one to be selling it). The irony that a (hopefully) ex-molester is out there extolling family values while going home at night trying to claim his "guaranteed affair" online is just palpable. I know some pretty dodgy folks with questionable morals - and even they would have internal moral problems with being *that* kind of person. Yet - that's the guy making a living talking about morality.

So that's why the media shows up at his door - and not other people's.
 
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bluegreysky

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I forgets... is ashley madison just for married men seeking a mistress or both devious unhappily married men and married women seeking a sugar daddy on the side? My husband's older sister is about to marry a wonderful man...second marriage for both...but before him she was engaged to another guy for awhile and she caught him with one of those accounts.
 
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DZoolander

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I got the impression Ashley Madison basically is just "If you're married and want to bang around with someone else - come here". As for the various ways that would be facilitated - I think it's all fair game.

In other words -

Married men looking for affairs - check
Married women looking for affairs - check
Single men looking to bang around with married women - check
Single women looking to bang around with married men - check

I wouldn't imagine that there was any sort of qualification like "You need to be married to have an account". But rather - so long as you've got no problems with having an affair and/or want that - "this is where you come".
 
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Navari

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Recently? That is something every person should be taught very early on in their christian walk.
While our eternal destiny may be changed in a moment; following Messiah is something we have to grow in over time.

This was not something taught to me, I wish it had.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I hope she gets her daughter checked out for any signs of abuse. <shudder>
It's prudent to be concerned about that because there is a huge amount of abuse that most people are not aware of. There has to be a reason why all of this surfaced after all of these years.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I wouldn't imagine that there was any sort of qualification
There is a qualification, in that I would imagine if that sort of thing makes you sick and you find it to be repulsive then you would not want to look at whatever it is that goes on there.

Eph5:12 "it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."
 
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joshua 1 9

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I don't think they're opportunists, I just think that they are a lost and broken family. Why, we don't know.
We know way, James says: "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment." If your going to set yourself up as an example to others then you have to lead by the example you set. Walk your talk.
 
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joshua 1 9

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isn't that funny how your sins find you out?
Actually it is scary. There are times that people are arrested for crimes they committed 50 years ago. I am glad I do not have anything in my past to be worried about. I do not want to have to look over my shoulder and wonder when it will catch up with me. People think they will get away with something, but what about when they go before God for judgement. Nothing is hidden from Him, He knows more about us then we know about ourselves. Today with all the technology the police have a very easy job catching people. Which means like the tribulation period they can fine them and extract money for the most minute of infractions.
 
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DZoolander

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There is a qualification, in that I would imagine if that sort of thing makes you sick and you find it to be repulsive then you would not want to look at whatever it is that goes on there.

Eph5:12 "it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."

That wasn't the question being asked. :) The question was about what Ashley Madison's business model was.
 
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joshua 1 9

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The question was about what Ashley Madison's business model was.
If you want to expose what they do in darkness then go ahead and expose them. For me it is a disgrace to speak about these things.

Eph5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.…
 
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bluegreysky

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Actually it is scary. There are times that people are arrested for crimes they committed 50 years ago. .
Hah yes I know... I watch crime shows ;)
48 Hours Mystery.... downloaded from tv, free on youtube. I was just watching one about a woman who disappeared from a catholic confessional in 1960, only to be found dead in a pond 5 days later. They didn't officially get the evidence they needed to convict the father who did it until a few years ago, and he was an old man by then.
Years of him whispering secrets to counselors in monistaries and to friends he worked with in the church finally caught up with him, as well as a case against him from 1963 when he assaulted another woman.
 
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mkgal1

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His family and church encouraged him, despite his sexual abuse for a year or more of five young girls, to be a very public face in the media and essentially earn his living by talking about Christian values about sex. He also saw no legal ramifications, and very little any other form of ramifications, from his early illicit sexually abusive behaviour. IMO, this had to foster an idea that he could basically get away with any sexual behaviour he wanted while still being given kudos.

I am praying for him and whole family.

I agree. I do think that how his first confession was handled may have done more harm than good. I see lots of problems with the teaching this family follows.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/05/gracenote/ said:
an older article on the danger and flaws of IBLP's teachings on counseling sexual abuse within families. Our hearts go out to all the families under Bill Gothard's influence who have suffered this tragic abuse. The teachings are horrific in both their blame of victims and lack of true help for young perpetrators.

The issue of immodesty puts the blame on abuse victims or parents (and relieves the abuser of the responsibility of self-control).
 
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puregrl

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But.....is it fair to judge the "family values" and whole system they follow and look at the fruit it produced?

When you say "nature".....are you suggesting it's "natural" to lust and cheat on one's wife (and JD just didn't have the will to overcome that)?

if the fruit that was produced showed similar in more than one child, yes. However this was one, so no. And no nature does not mean natural. Nature (born that way) vs Nurture (raised that way).

As a psych major that made me laugh. Yes, it has generally been agreed by experts that nature and nurture both have a hand in development.

It's his behavior that is bad.

It's not a "disorder", it's lust.


He wasn't a "kid" when he chose to sign up and pay for a website through which ADULTS have extra-marital affairs, and he wasn't a kid when he chose to meet a woman or women from that website and have sex with them.

So you blame his peers and media, eh, even though his parents insist that the kids watched no tv and that they carefully vetted everyone with whom their kids came into contact. No public school for Josh, just homeschooling. Therefore, the only people that can be blamed for Josh's behavior is Josh and the particular brand of homeschooling (particularly Gothard as MK Gal says) which is twisted in the extreme.

Yes, psych major here to. It is generally agreed that they both have value, but most people place more value on one or the other depending on the topic. So it is a debate that varies from topic to topic. As far as this topic I see nature playing more into the issue than the way he was raised.
Yes it is his behavior that is bad, I didnt state otherwise. And I didnt state he had a personality disorder. However, he may have an issue that has not been discovered...there is no way you can or cannot know that. I personally think he just has issues such as lust, lack of respect...
And lastly I wasnt talking about him in that last bit but responding to something else from a previous post. Please look more into things before assuming.
 
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