Is it just me....

seashale76

Unapologetic Iconodule
Dec 29, 2004
14,006
4,406
✟173,945.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Quite simple. There was concern expressed at posting in GT. And I simply said that unlike the treatment I received here, I would welcome you guys to post at GT, and would not report you if you did not hold to some of the views there, and were open and honest about stating that.

I reported you more than once and I don't have any problem letting you know about it. Whether it was here or elsewhere, I can't recall. It wasn't about your views so much as your harassment, FYI. I don't care where you post, WillieT so long as you follow the rules and leave people alone who wish to be left alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tzaousios
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Thanks to you both very much (bearded one and buzuxi - took me a while to read, digest, and reply).

I need to think about this some more, but what I'm starting to understand actually almost seems to make much more sense to me than the way I had always imagined the Trinity to be - which was pretty much a logical impossibility, but I accepted it because I was told to.

I do need to think on it more. But I really appreciate this very much. :)

---------------

And Chesterton, I've been meaning to read that book for a while. I had it checked out many years ago and didn't make it all the way through, and I do want to read it again. Maybe I can get it now. ;) Thanks for the suggestion!


.
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
In 177 a.d. the charge of atheism was brought up against the Christians. Athenagoras of Athens wrote a work entitles the 'Embassy for the Christians" refuting this charge.

In chapter 4 of that work he wrote:

As regards, first of all, the allegation that we are atheists—for I will meet the charges one by one, that we may not be ridiculed for having no answer to give to those who make them... But to us, who distinguish God from matter, and teach that matter is one thing and God another, and that they are separated by a wide interval (for that the Deity is uncreated and eternal, to be beheld by the understanding and reason alone, while matter is created and perishable), is it not absurd to apply the name of atheism?
But, since our doctrine acknowledges one God, the Maker of this universe, who is Himself uncreated (for that which is does not come to be, but that which is not) but has made all things by the Logos which is from Him, we are treated unreasonably in both respects, in that we are both defamed and persecuted.



In chapter 10 he goes into explaining the christian understanding of God:


That we are not atheists, therefore, seeing that we acknowledge one God, uncreated, eternal, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable, who is apprehended by the understanding only and the reason, who is encompassed by light, and beauty, and spirit, and power ineffable, by whom the universe has been created through His Logos, and set in order, and is kept in being—I have sufficiently demonstrated.

[I say “His Logos”], for we acknowledge also a Son of God. Nor let any one think it ridiculous that God should have a Son. For though the poets, in their fictions, represent the gods as no better than men, our mode of thinking is not the same as theirs, concerning either God the Father or the Son. But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason (νοῦς καὶ λόγος) of the Father is the Son of God.

But if, in your surpassing intelligence, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence (for from the beginning, God, who is the eternal mind [νοῦς], had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos [λογικός]); but inasmuch as He came forth to be the idea and energizing power of all material things, which lay like a nature without attributes, and an inactive earth, the grosser particles being mixed up with the lighter. The prophetic Spirit also agrees with our statements. “The Lord,” it says, “made me, the beginning of His ways to His works.” The Holy Spirit Himself also, which operates in the prophets, we assert to be an effluence of God, flowing from Him, and returning back again like a beam of the sun. Who, then, would not be astonished to hear men who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order, called atheists? Nor is our teaching in what relates to the divine nature confined to these points; but we recognise also a multitude of angels and ministers, whom God the Maker and Framer of the world distributed and appointed

to their several posts by His Logos, to occupy themselves about the elements, and the heavens, and the world, and the things in it, and the goodly ordering of them all.
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,611
12,142
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,183,342.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
St Gregory said it best.
Describe the unbegottenness of the Father, and I will describe the nature of the begetting of the Son and the procession of the Spirit, and let us both go mad prying into God's mysteries.​
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,563
20,082
41
Earth
✟1,467,820.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I need to think about this some more, but what I'm starting to understand actually almost seems to make much more sense to me than the way I had always imagined the Trinity to be - which was pretty much a logical impossibility, but I accepted it because I was told to.

I do need to think on it more. But I really appreciate this very much.
:)

your questions kinda remind me of something from the life of St Augustine, where he was walking along a beach trying to contemplate God's essence (in the make-Him-fit-in-my-head sense, ie what you see everywhere in General Theology), and he saw an angel in the form of a child trying to fill the ocean in a small cup. when St Augustine tried to tell him it is impossible, the angel told him it is the same when we try to fit God in our mind.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
In 177 a.d. the charge of atheism was brought up against the Christians. Athenagoras of Athens wrote a work entitles the 'Embassy for the Christians" refuting this charge.

In chapter 4 of that work he wrote:





In chapter 10 he goes into explaining the christian understanding of God:



Thank you for this as well.

I guess the nature of God and what we believe about Him is something I've been kind of working on understanding for some time.

This helps some more. I'm slowly (I think) getting the idea, and to be honest, it makes the "ONE" of God make a lot more sense to me.

Because to be honest with myself, no matter how I looked at it before, my understanding of "3 Persons" really always amounted to 3 separate Gods. I would have denied it in word, because I know we are not supposed to believe that, but I couldn't understand how it could be possible. So I repeated the words and put it down to "mystery".

Now what is ironic to me - how many people accuse the Orthodox Church of teaching in this manner. "Just repeat what we say, and if it doesn't make sense, it's a 'mystery'."

I know we DO acknowledge mysteries, but IMO they are where they should be. The Church seems to explain what she understands and knows, and doesn't push an explanation on what She doesn't.

But in my mind - where I would never have admitted to anyone - I essentially understood "3 Gods" until what I am finally starting to get now. God is becoming "One" to my understanding, based on what I read from the Church. I really have to thank you all for your part in helping me with that. Finally I can begin to worship God in more honesty than I could before.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
St Gregory said it best.
Describe the unbegottenness of the Father, and I will describe the nature of the begetting of the Son and the procession of the Spirit, and let us both go mad prying into God's mysteries.​



your questions kinda remind me of something from the life of St Augustine, where he was walking along a beach trying to contemplate God's essence (in the make-Him-fit-in-my-head sense, ie what you see everywhere in General Theology), and he saw an angel in the form of a child trying to fill the ocean in a small cup. when St Augustine tried to tell him it is impossible, the angel told him it is the same when we try to fit God in our mind.


I have to say - you also remind me of something I have learned to appreciate beyond measure in Orthodoxy.

While I do think it's important for me to understand "God is one" and I am thankful for the progress made there - in truth, we cannot comprehend God fully. I think even the angels that cry, "Holy, holy, holy!" around His throne do not comprehend Him fully.

There is a comfort too in being able to accept, go about your life of faith, and rest in your faith without endlessly trying to dissect and explain things which cannot be dissected and explained.

Thank you both as well. :)
 
Upvote 0

wynd

Orthodox Christian
Jun 9, 2006
371
36
North Texas
✟9,832.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
or has TAW been incredibly boring lately? No offense to anyone. I'm as much part of the problem as anyone! Why can't we get some interesting threads?

Ok, now I'll duck as the lettuce, apples, eggs, and rocks are hurled in my direction! :p^_^

Can we brainstorm some threads or what? :sorry::sorry:

Agreed 100%. Let's start a(nother) Seinfeld thread!
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I make notes on Sunday's Orthros sheets every week and have enough questions to fuel a week's discussion, LOL.

But I wasn't sure if that would be too small or too nit-picking to ask about ...

Eventually if I can't figure something out and it bothers me for weeks in a row, I will ask Fr. M about it, but I have officially "finished" inquirer/catechism classes ... I'm going to MISS that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yeah, we need to do something. I come on CF, find nothing in TAW, then mosey on over to OBOB where I read the most OUTLANDISHLY liberal, secular humanist modernist tripe, and when I comment on the sinfulness of such opinions, I get reported. You just can't stand up for traditional Catholic values in a Catholic subforum these days! LOL

So yes, we must start some new threads. Maybe a "what are you watching?" thread! ^_^

I'm not much into English (British) shows, but I must say, I'm watching this series called "Luther" right now. WOW! Incredible stuff!

Agreed 100%. Let's start a(nother) Seinfeld thread!
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Kylissa

If you don't find something that makes you go -" hmmmmm ? " from time to time then there is something wrong .

We learn until we draw our last breath .

Thanks Anhelyna. :)

There's just so much THERE in the Orthros. I've learned a LOT. But sometimes I don't know what a phrase means, or why something is said. It's great though. Orthodoxy will never be boring ... ;)
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Orthros is great - it's unfortunate that more people don't attend.

I would feel like I've missed "Church" in a way if I didn't make it for Orthros. So much of the teaching is there, and we also have the Gospel and a lot of other things going on.

I am surprised that more don't attend.
 
Upvote 0

Dylan Michael

Senior Veteran
Jul 15, 2010
3,675
203
Central Florida
✟22,692.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Yeah, we need to do something. I come on CF, find nothing in TAW, then mosey on over to OBOB where I read the most OUTLANDISHLY liberal, secular humanist modernist tripe, and when I comment on the sinfulness of such opinions, I get reported. You just can't stand up for traditional Catholic values in a Catholic subforum these days! LOL

So yes, we must start some new threads. Maybe a "what are you watching?" thread! ^_^

I'm not much into English (British) shows, but I must say, I'm watching this series called "Luther" right now. WOW! Incredible stuff!

Hey hey hey. Some of us aren't that liberal you know. :p


In eastern related news:
I went to (EC) DL last Sunday and one of the parishioners said I was a 'Nice Byzantine young gentleman'. When I told him I was a visiting Latin, he said be was impressed by my ability to follow along with the DL so well. (Bragging over )

And the local OCA parish is holding their Slavic festival in a couple of weeks. And then the Greek parish is having their Greek festival the week after. I'm excited for that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,563
20,082
41
Earth
✟1,467,820.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Thanks Anhelyna. :)

There's just so much THERE in the Orthros. I've learned a LOT. But sometimes I don't know what a phrase means, or why something is said. It's great though. Orthodoxy will never be boring ... ;)

indeed. a monk I know said that if you want to know an Orthodox catechism, pay attention during Orthros
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
indeed. a monk I know said that if you want to know an Orthodox catechism, pay attention during Orthros

That makes sense.

Actually I've been wondering - if anyone knows. Don't they have an Orthros theoretically for every day of the year? Are those available online somewhere? Even just the parts that change?

I think it would be possible to learn so much that way.

We have Orthros only on Sunday, and Feast Days, and then when we have extra Divine Liturgies in the mornings during fasting seasons. So we get opportunities, but if it does change every day, it would take years before I heard them all - maybe many years if the days don't line up right. Not that I think I can "know it all" .... but I just want to look where the treasure can be found, if that's possible?
 
Upvote 0

Kristos

Servant
Aug 30, 2006
7,379
1,068
Minnesota
✟37,552.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
That makes sense.

Actually I've been wondering - if anyone knows. Don't they have an Orthros theoretically for every day of the year? Are those available online somewhere? Even just the parts that change?

I think it would be possible to learn so much that way.

We have Orthros only on Sunday, and Feast Days, and then when we have extra Divine Liturgies in the mornings during fasting seasons. So we get opportunities, but if it does change every day, it would take years before I heard them all - maybe many years if the days don't line up right. Not that I think I can "know it all" .... but I just want to look where the treasure can be found, if that's possible?

You would need a whole slew of books to do that...

This site has the basic outlines, but doesn't include many of the variables:
The Dynamic Horologion And Psalter

Many of the books are copyrighted, so...
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,133
17,455
Florida panhandle, USA
✟922,775.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
You would need a whole slew of books to do that...

This site has the basic outlines, but doesn't include many of the variables:
The Dynamic Horologion And Psalter

Many of the books are copyrighted, so...

I was afraid that was going to be the case. I haven't been able to figure out yet how things are put together.

And I really would like to look into Vespers more. I know more people are often familiar with that service, but I think I have been to only one, and that so early on that I wasn't able to really see it for what kind of service it was compared to others.

Our Church rarely has a Vespers service. I think the Antiochian might have them on Saturday nights, but it's a long drive for a very short service and I doubt I can really afford the gas to go regularly.

Thank you very much for the link though. I'll go check it out now. :)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums