Not sinning does not mean anything; not equivalent to holiness or godliness

[bottomofsandal]

Not sinning is really not that big a deal, is it ? If so many people claim to not sin, maybe we should study this with further scrutiny. Secular Humanists/Atheists/Agnostics/"X" might not murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, take The Lord's name in vain, build idols...get the point.


Not sinning is not holiness. Not sinning is not righteousness. Not sinning is not perfection. Not sinning is merely avoiding certain moral behavior. If the unsaved cannot sin, then being sinless must not be godliness. Even Jesus commented on the advanced learning of harlots and tax collectors.


Sinners are generous & kind, maybe moreso than "perfect" folk.

Sinners visit the sick & feed the poor, maybe moreso than "perfect" folk.

Sinners forgive and exhibit mercy, maybe moreso than "perfect" folk.



To not sin can be compared to not breaking any rules. Not very hard...

 

[endtimewarrior]

If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.

 

[bottomofsandal]

If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.

Ask a man's wife, his parents, his siblings, his friends.

Flesh is sinful. Until it is changed, we have a sin nature.

 

[Kemosabe]

endtimewarrior: "If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.'

Jesus said; "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.'

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

 

[hmw]

If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.

Hi endtimewarrior,

Kemosabe is correct in quoting Jesus, ""For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Our works are simply to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.

And in believing in Jesus, our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
Hence we cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17).

In believing in Jesus we're not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).
Hence we cannot be charged with the sin of transgression of the law (1John 3:4).

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So we see that Christians have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1) , "cannot sin" (1John 3:9) when we believe in Jesus.

As for our imperfect physical body, that always fails through it's weaknesses, it's already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10. So as it's dead, then we don't judge our righteousness by it's failings.

 

[bottomofsandal]

If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.

Do you think a man would dare declare his sinlessness in the presence of Jesus ? I can tell you I wouldn't, but I guess some would. Would Jesus think more of me if I convince Him that I do not sin ? How would The Lord respond ?


But, what is in play here is holiness and godliness.

A good, unsaved man may not sin at all. He does not have God's righteousness. He is self-righteous because he is able to maintain a certain position based upon his acceptable behavior. He is driving the speed limit, doing good works, and loving his neighbor. Yet, he is hellbound. Avoiding sin can be done by a man who ignores Christ.

 

[CallingInTheDesert]

If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.

So if a person claims to not sin anymore in the power of living by the Holy Spirit -he is a liar.

Anyone that lives by the power of God's Spirit will not sin, because they will not submit to the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:16-17 - So I say, live by the Spirit , and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. NIV

Are you saying that no one can live by the power of the Holy Spirit and not sin. Are you calling God's Word a lie?

Are you saying that this verse below is a lie from God?

1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV

But, if a person sins then he/she has to admit he/she is of the devil and not of God.

1 John 3:8 - He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. NKJV

If you are admitting that you still are in bondage to sin and continuing in sin, than you are telling me that you are of the devil - By God's Word, not mine.

Should I listen to someone that is of the devil, which proclaims lies instead of God's Truth?

 

[CallingInTheDesert]

Do you think a man would dare declare his sinlessness in the presence of Jesus ? I can tell you I wouldn't, but I guess some would. Would Jesus think more of me if I convince Him that I do not sin ? How would The Lord respond ?

I am continuously declaring the power (Grace) of Jesus Christ in me and before Christ, because Christ is living in me and I am living in Him. We are married and bonded together in One Spirit - His Spirit.

This is why a born again Christian doesn't sin, because it is Christ doing it all through and in the person. Christ's seed (His Truth and Holy Spirit) stay in a born again Christian, because they are One in Spirit.

 

[Kemosabe]

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

If you don't overcome sin, then this promise isn't for you.

 

[hmw]

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

If you don't overcome sin, then this promise isn't for you.

Christians have overcome simply by believing in Jesus. Take for example the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord".

1John 5:4,5
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[bottomofsandal]

I am continuously declaring the power (Grace) of Jesus Christ in me and before Christ, because Christ is living in me and I am living in Him. We are married and bonded together in One Spirit - His Spirit.

This is why a born again Christian doesn't sin, because it is Christ doing it all through and in the person. Christ's seed (His Truth and Holy Spirit) stay in a born again Christian, because they are One in Spirit.

Then why does "a man after God's heart" say in The Psalms to cleanse me from from my unknown faults. We ALL sin in ways that we are ignorant of and our sinfulness keeps it from our awareness. We are siners saved by grace, we sin, if for no other reason that we have sin-friendly flesh.


A man can tell himself he is sinless. What a strange meditation ? This is familiar to us: "Lord, I thank you that I am NOT like other men..." Yeah, Lord, I am not like that filthy tax collector beating his breast and declaring that he is a sinner, and invoking your mercy. Not me.

 

[Mazzaroth]

Not sinning is really not that big a deal, is it ? If so many people claim to not sin, maybe we should study this with further scrutiny. Secular Humanists/Atheists/Agnostics/"X" might not murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, take The Lord's name in vain, build idols...get the point.


Not sinning is not holiness. Not sinning is not righteousness. Not sinning is not perfection. Not sinning is merely avoiding certain moral behavior. If the unsaved cannot sin, then being sinless must not be godliness. Even Jesus commented on the advanced learning of harlots and tax collectors.


Sinners are generous & kind, maybe moreso than "perfect" folk.

Sinners visit the sick & feed the poor, maybe moreso than "perfect" folk.

Sinners forgive and exhibit mercy, maybe moreso than "perfect" folk.



To not sin can be compared to not breaking any rules. Not very hard...

Lol so just because I said I'm going to pay for your meal you're going to order lobster, scallops, a vintage bottle of wine, and a gourmet dessert? How difficult is it to not order those things off the menu and eat tastefully yet conservatively?

How difficult is it to stop lying? How difficult is it to stop looking at porn? How difficult is it to not cheat on your spouse? How difficult is it to not have sex with someone if you're not married to them? Your clothes don't just fly off. The porn doesn't just download and open itself. The concubine doesn't just appear in your bed. The lies do not just flow unwillingly out of your mouth. Listen to what your heart is saying through your actions, for this reveals the true momentum of your aspirations and desires.

To a person who does not believe, the ten commandments are understandably a languish; but to those who do believe and further yet do worship, how easy are they to obey! Such greater raptures of heart and mind awaited us, and in this we were filled with life and fulfillment so beyond the pleasures of the human spectrum; yet this was reaped only after we had made the choice to sacrifice ourselves and our ways for a greater vein.

How can you stand before us today to say that those who abstain from the sins of the flesh to their utmost ability are doing so in vain? By suggesting this you are suggesting the very love the worshiper has for God is useless and the gesture of a Pharisee.

John 14:15
[sup]15[/sup] If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Observe them, abide by them, for this is the expression of all those who truly love God. Just because you have not yet accomplished this to the best of your ability does not mean that those who have are somehow judging you or exalting themselves above the flock.

Or who detests or challenges the trembling man? Who is discouraged by his devotion?

Philippians 2:12
"[sup]12[/sup] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

He trembles because his fear of the Lord's judgment is great. He is terribly mindful of the tenants that have been given to him by the God he worships and is willing to sacrifice his very life to remain in strict obedience. The trembling man does not do this to be seen as great among the flock.

Furthermore, may woe and mercy alike be upon those who languish the very taste and savor of life.

A good tree does not bear bad fruit. Those who are born-again in Christ do not continue to yield bad fruit, but are reborn as new creatures, thus yielding good fruit. How can we be as we were and yet be made new? The new is here, the old is gone. Let us all as followers of Christ thus observe the new yieldings of the good fruit in those who are behind themselves in pursuit of the Spirit.


Stop lying. Stop cheating on your spouse. Stop having sexual relations if you are unmarried. Stop stealing. Stop murdering. Whatever it is you're doing, just stop. Do you love God? Then you will stop. Those who truly love God obey Him. This is not something you do on your own, but something you go along with when the Holy Spirit moves within you. If you do not move then the Holy Spirit has not yet moved in you, and if it did you did not obey!


Lastly, we are not saved by works. Even a wicked man can do good deeds to be seen as externally "good", I mean unholy legions of hell even the Shriners have children's hospitals and charity events.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"[sup]8[/sup] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[sup]9[/sup] Not of works, lest any man should boast."

When you accept Jesus Christ as the messiah you are blessed with the grace to overcome sin. Without this grace the sin continues. Sure, these things take time, but they do not take forever.

 

[Kemosabe]

hmw: Christians have overcome simply by believing in Jesus.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

hmw says; "simply by believing."

Jesus says; "he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end."

We have a choice:
believe and follow 'hmw'
or
believe and follow Jesus.

They're pointing in different directions.

 

[BryanW92]

We are saved by grace, not by works. But, faith without works is dead.

So, the same ridiculous argument rages on in thread after thread on CF. On one side, we have the "saved by grace alone" people and on the other, we have the "sinless or nothing" people.

We know that grace is gift of infinite value bestowed upon us by God for no cost.

We know that Jesus did tell us to "go and sin no more".

We know that we cannot be holy except through Christ, yet Jesus never told us that he or the Holy Spirit would make us be sinless.

The "sinless or nothing" people tell us that WE must make ourselves sinless. That sounds like works.

The "saved by grace alone" people tell us that we are forgiven for all sins, past and future. That doesn't jibe with the "go and sin no more".

I think that we receive grace and, if we truly received it and have faith that it is real, then we don't want to sin anymore, even though we might be weak and do it anyway. The Holy Spirit, the Good Counselor, acts on us every day making us hate sin more and more, convicting us when we do and comforting us when we stop ourselves. Sanctification is a process in this life that we must work through and that process lies in between the extremes.

 

[QueSi]

If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.

If a man is locked away in solitary confinement with only a bible and calendar, do you still think its impossible for them to not sin?

 

[Kemosabe]

BryanW92: Sanctification is a process in this life that we must work through and that process lies in between the extremes.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Apparently, Jesus is an extremist.

 

[QueSi]

8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Sin no more...

 

[bottomofsandal]

So, the same ridiculous argument rages on in thread after thread on CF. On one side, we have the "saved by grace alone" people and on the other, we have the "sinless or nothing" people.

But we need to go farther with the fallacy of sinlessness and point out that the UNsaved can be "sinless". This destroys and dismantles the entire house of cards. When we are talking about good moral behavior and keeping the law we are celebrating our accomplishments while failing to acknowledge that God has declared us righteous and our good deeds are but filthy rags.


God commands us to be holy...who is holy ? The 24 elders are saying "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY" as they declare the complete, perfect holiness of God Almighty. Should they proclaim our greatness as well ? Are we holy ? My ways are higher than your ways says God Almighty. Am I to delude myself into thinking I am anything like Him ? Sure, without holiness no one will see The Lord. But dare we compare ourselves to God ?


Strangely, man can obey God unwillingly or unknowingly; Romans alludes to this practice. If a man obeys inadvertently or even because of a sujective morality, this man has complied with the law. Does this man have imputed righteousness ? No, this man is a good person who has good behavior. He need not be a believer in Christ Jesus to obey the precepts of God. Maybe he feeds the poor, clothes the naked, and even "loves" his enemies.


Not sinnng, not sinning by commission can be acheived by an unsaved man. The sins of omission are the sins a Christian regularly commits. Does a Christian deny himself, pickup his cross, and follow Jesus all the time ? NO. Does the Christian pray without ceasing ? NO. And the most condemnng of all the omissions is the total and absolute failure to love God with ALL the heart, ALL the mind, ALL the soul, and ALL the strength. It would be ludicrous and obscene (and sinful) for any man to claim such a walk with The Lord.

 

[bottomofsandal]

8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Sin no more...

Should Jesus have said, "Try not to sin anymore" ?

How about, "Keep working on your sin problem" ?

Did Jesus say or imply in any way that she was perfect and sinless ?




What would you or I expect God to say about sin ? God told the woman to not sin anymore. We are commanded to not sin. There is a standard. God demands perfection because He Himself is perfect. Man is not perfect or sinless, man will never be so on this earth. Thanks be to God that Christ was perfect and perfectly obeyed The Law of God for us sinners.

 

[bottomofsandal]

How can you stand before us today to say that those who abstain from the sins of the flesh to their utmost ability are doing so in vain? By suggesting this you are suggesting the very love the worshiper has for God is useless and the gesture of a Pharisee.

We struggle against the flesh, we wrestle with our desires every day and all the time. Sometimes we fall, then we confess, and God in His mercy forgives. We want to be perfect, we want to obey, we want to please God, but sometimes we fail.


The Pharisee or any law-keeper believes triumph to be in compliance and adherence. There are enormous deficiencies in performing at a level that God would find acceptable. Law-keepers fail because they cannot obey 100%. Anything less than 100% is failure. Any man who boasts of not being a sinner like that tax collector over there beating his breast, has not examined himself in the manner in whcih God will examine. God's light exposes everything.


.