Is baptism required for salvation?

[brittany111]

What are your thoughts?

 

[thesunisout]

What are your thoughts?

Although I feel baptism is important, I don't think that it is a requirement of salvation. It would constitute a work, when scripture says we are justified by faith alone.

 

[Humble Pie]

Yeah you have to get baptised, the Bible says so.

 

[brittany111]

Although I feel baptism is important, I don't think that it is a requirement of salvation. It would constitute a work, when scripture says we are justified by faith alone.

Thankyou this is what I've always been taught, but was recently told I was taught wrong.Guess I just needed some confirmation.

 

[greatdivide46]

Yes, I believe baptism is required for salvation. No, baptism is not a work. Even if it could be considered a work it would be a work in the same category as faith, repentance and confession, all of which the Bible says we are saved by.

 

[a pilgrim]

It's one of those catch 22 issues. The thief on the cross went to Paradise without it, but the Early Church knew NO other such practice than repentance and baptism. Talk to sober-minded missionaries in other countries, they don't have the strange phenomena as we do in America where you have 27 professions of faith and 3 baptisms.

I was listening to a Baptist missionary who served in the Congo for years, (until they had to flee under Idi Amin,) and of the, literal, thousands of converts to Christ, he could only remember 2 or 3 that did NOT get baptized.

Baptism has always been intimately associate with repentance and confession of faith. Only in our modern "Christendom" have we so hyper-defined everything that we have driven a wedge between our different groups. If we we would just be humble and obey the scriptures, i.e., preach and DO repentance AND baptism. Don't offer it as some heavenly afterthought.

It is to be so tied to the profession that one would see them as one, regardless to what we hash out theologically. It's what the early church did. Let's do it, too!

 

[greatdivide46]

I was listening to a Baptist missionary who served in the Congo for years, (until they had to flee under Idi Amin,) and of the, literal, thousands of converts to Christ, he could only remember 2 or 3 that did NOT get baptized.

Nit-picker hat on
​

Idi Amin was in Uganda not the Congo.
​

Nit-picker hat off
​

​

 

[a pilgrim]

Nit-picker hat on
​

Idi Amin was in Uganda not the Congo.
​

Nit-picker hat off
​

​

Oh well, there I go again!

 

[brittany111]

It's one of those catch 22 issues. The thief on the cross went to Paradise without it, but the Early Church knew NO other such practice than repentance and baptism. Talk to sober-minded missionaries in other countries, they don't have the strange phenomena as we do in America where you have 27 professions of faith and 3 baptisms.

I was listening to a Baptist missionary who served in the Congo for years, (until they had to flee under Idi Amin,) and of the, literal, thousands of converts to Christ, he could only remember 2 or 3 that did NOT get baptized.

Baptism has always been intimately associate with repentance and confession of faith. Only in our modern "Christendom" have we so hyper-defined everything that we have driven a wedge between our different groups. If we we would just be humble and obey the scriptures, i.e., preach and DO repentance AND baptism. Don't offer it as some heavenly afterthought.

It is to be so tied to the profession that one would see them as one, regardless to what we hash out theologically. It's what the early church did. Let's do it, too!

I'm not asking whether or not it should be done. Of course I believe believers should be baptized. My question was if a believer dies without being baptized does he go to heaven?

 

[a pilgrim]

They fled from Belgian Congo when the Simba Rebellion began in 1964.

The rebels were led by Pierre Mulele, Gaston Soumialot and Christophe Gbenye who were former members of Gizenga's Parti Solidaire Africain (PSA). The leaders of the rebels were politically leftists. Most of their fighters however were tribesmen from the provinces of Kivu and Orientale. Many of them came from traditional African cultures with animist beliefs. The name "Simba" comes from the fact that the tribal fighters were told by shamans that they would be immune to bullets, and would be transformed into "Simbas" (the Swahili word for lions) when they were in battle. (From Wikepedia)

 

[miamited]

hi brittany,

As I understand the Scriptures, there are at least three things that accompany godly faith that seem to be required for our ultimate salvation. We must be baptized. We must be born again. Our name must be written in the Lamb's book of life. Many will say that that makes our salvation a matter of works. I disagree. The Scriptures seem to make clear that while our works do not save us, James makes perfectly clear that the life of the true believer will have accompanying works.

As regards the issue of baptism there are at least two places that seem to make it a clear command and necessity to complete the act of our salvation. Jesus himself said that only those who believe and are baptized will be saved. Peter, when asked the very question of what those at pentecost must do to be saved, said those men asking had to be baptized.

There are several places where one can 'understand' that baptism is an integral part of our salvation. First, we have Jesus' own command to his first disciples that they were to go out and preach, teach and baptize in all nations. Second, we see that Jesus was baptized. There is at least one recorded account that the disciples went throughout Jerusalem teaching and baptizing and, of course, John baptized multitudes. When the eunich understood the faith that comes through Christ he was so convicted to be baptized that he had his driver immediately stop his chariot and went down into the water to be baptized. Paul was commanded by Annanias to be baptized and pretty much all the book of the acts of the apostles, when people believed, they were baptized.

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to just overlook all of that evidence that it would certainly seem that the first disciples taught and practiced baptism after faith and that Jesus taught and practiced baptism. Consider that when Jesus requested John to baptize him, John at first balked and said he was the one that needed baptism, but Jesus explained that it must be so to fulfill all righteousness.

Now, many believe and teach, "Well, there are different kinds of baptisms," and that is certainly true, but Jesus' command to the disciples was to go and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and so I find it clear that this baptism that Jesus was teaching his first disciples to practice as they went along teaching was not the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes, those who believe and are baptized will receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

So, all in all, my position is that I certainly don't want to be found on that day of judgment proclaiming to Jesus that I knew him and did mighty works in his name and he turn to me and say, "I never knew you. Depart from me you worker of iniquity."

Finally, let's look at the possible ultimate ends. If I claim to believe and am not baptized there is the possibility, according to Jesus' own words that I will not be saved. If, on the other hand, I believe and am baptized I certainly don't find that there will be any condemnation for having done it. Be baptized. Teach other believers to be baptized and let God sort out the sheep from the goats.

However, one last and final instruction. Jesus was also clear that baptism not accompanied by faith is of no value so do not be confused that baptism saves you, it doesn't! Only God, through His Son, and based on those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life will be saved. The final chapter of the Revelation of Jesus makes it crystal clear, that on that day of God's judgment, He will open the Lamb's book of life and if your name is there you will be saved. I want to do everything that might possibly be necessary that my name is in that book!

Love the Lord my God and Creator with all my heart and be obedient to His commands and instructions to practice all that He has written to me.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[a pilgrim]

I'm not asking whether or not it should be done. Of course I believe believers should be baptized. My question was if a believer dies without being baptized does he go to heaven?

Now I come from a Baptist background and my answer is going to get me in trouble with several groups. With Baptist brethren because I'm not going to give the pat answer, and with my Church of Christ brethren, because I'm not going to give theirs either. Here we go:

I believe you'd have to take it on a case-by-case situation. There is no set, YES or NO, for this one. Again, the thief on the cross went to Paradise without it:

Luke 23
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

No baptism here. . . AND I do not wish to hear about dispensations, etc., ad nausium. He placed saving faith in the Messiah and he got the Express Ticket!

Now, as to Believers dying without baptism. It's a heart issue. Could they have been baptized? Did they refuse/reject? Where was their heart in the first place? Why wouldn't one DO what Jesus said to do?

Do you see my point? It's a heart issue. The text CLEARLY says:

Acts 2
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now, I know, (for the dispensationalist,) Peter was talking to the Jews, but even now, we are to repent (turn,) place saving faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary, AND be baptized.

If not, why not?

Do you get my point, Sis?

 

[anada]

I'm not asking whether or not it should be done. Of course I believe believers should be baptized. My question was if a believer dies without being baptized does he go to heaven?

IMO the "good" thief proved the answer is yes. If it were it would have been included alongside faith in Christ in every instance Salvation is mentioned.

Question: "Is baptism necessary for salvation? What is baptismal regeneration?"

Answer: Baptismal regeneration is the belief that a person must be baptized in order to be saved. It is our contention that baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation. We strongly believe that each and every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4 declares, “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say we must be baptized in order to be saved is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.

Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a necessary requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)? Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?

Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Acts 22:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Galatians 3:27 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Baptismal regeneration is not a biblical concept. Baptism does not save from sin but from a bad conscience. In 1 Peter 3:21; Peter clearly taught that baptism was not a ceremonial act of physical purification, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is the symbol of what has already occurred in the heart and life of one who has trusted Christ as Savior (Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12). Baptism is an important step of obedience that every Christian should take. Baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation. To make it such is an attack on the sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Is baptism necessary for salvation? What is baptismal regeneration?

There are more links dealing with individual passages in the above link.

In other news my wife and I were baptised last weekend!

God bless

 

[brittany111]

Now I come from a Baptist background and my answer is going to get me in trouble with several groups. With Baptist brethren because I'm not going to give the pat answer, and with my Church of Christ brethren, because I'm not going to give theirs either. Here we go:

I believe you'd have to take it on a case-by-case situation. There is no set, YES or NO, for this one. Again, the thief on the cross went to Paradise without it:

Luke 23
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

No baptism here. . . AND I do not wish to hear about dispensations, etc., ad nausium. He placed saving faith in the Messiah and he got the Express Ticket!

Now, as to Believers dying without baptism. It's a heart issue. Could they have been baptized? Did they refuse/reject? Where was their heart in the first place? Why wouldn't one DO what Jesus said to do?

Do you see my point? It's a heart issue. The text CLEARLY says:

Acts 2
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now, I know, (for the dispensationalist,) Peter was talking to the Jews, but even now, we are to repent (turn,) place saving faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary, AND be baptized.

If not, why not?

Do you get my point, Sis?

Yes I get your point. I guess we often try to over simplfy things, when many issues we often debate (such as this one) all boil down to an issue of the heart. I guess we just need to share the word as it is written and let the Holy Spirit do His work in people's lives. It is not up to us to judge, God knows those who are His.

I feel as though I should state that I was baptized 14 years ago.

 

[brittany111]

IMO the "good" thief proved the answer is yes. If it were it would have been included alongside faith in Christ in every instance Salvation is mentioned.

Question: "Is baptism necessary for salvation? What is baptismal regeneration?"

Answer: Baptismal regeneration is the belief that a person must be baptized in order to be saved. It is our contention that baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation. We strongly believe that each and every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4 declares, “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say we must be baptized in order to be saved is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.

Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a necessary requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)? Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?

Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Acts 22:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Does Galatians 3:27 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Baptismal regeneration is not a biblical concept. Baptism does not save from sin but from a bad conscience. In 1 Peter 3:21; Peter clearly taught that baptism was not a ceremonial act of physical purification, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is the symbol of what has already occurred in the heart and life of one who has trusted Christ as Savior (Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12). Baptism is an important step of obedience that every Christian should take. Baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation. To make it such is an attack on the sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Is baptism necessary for salvation? What is baptismal regeneration?

There are more links dealing with individual passages in the above link.

In other news my wife and I were baptised last weekend!

God bless

Thank you and congratulations on you and your wives baptisms!

 

[a pilgrim]

Yes I get your point. I guess we often try to over simplfy things, when many issues we often debate (such as this one) all boil down to an issue of the heart. I guess we just need to share the word as it is written and let the Holy Spirit do His work in people's lives. It is not up to us to judge, God knows those who are His.

I feel as though I should state that I was baptized 14 years ago.

Amen.

I have been in ALL those debates before. I find the further I go along in my faith-walk, the more simple I boil everything down. I have fellowshipped with those who believe you can lose your salvation and those who believe you can't. THAT one can be a HOT one. However, (at least for me and my house,) we have boiled that one down to one verse:

John 10
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

That's pretty cut and dried. At the end of the day, who cares if those who walked away and never came back lost it, or never had it in the first place, it's the FOLLOWERS, that are his sheep. That is so easy, the babies (my children,) get it.

We ALL have our pet/home/favorite (pick one,) theology. We can ALL explain, (or explain away,) the verses we like/dislike, but these had an impact on my way of seeing things:

Prov. 30
[5] Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
[6] Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

God's word's are pure, so take them at face value. If it says:

John 10
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Then raise your hands up and shout, "Glory, he's got me in his hands! I'm safe!"

And, if it says:

John 15
[6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Then say, "Woe is me, if I don't abide in the Vine!"

Also, this is a REAL good one for all of us:

John 13
[35] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

We may have different ways of explaining it, (usually thinking/knowing our way is THE RIGHT one,) but we are to walk away from our discussions committed to one another in brotherly love. This is hard, (especially for someone hard-headed like me.)

Peace.

 

[Christownsme]

I'm not asking whether or not it should be done. Of course I believe believers should be baptized. My question was if a believer dies without being baptized does he go to heaven?

Answer - yes. It's an obedience thing. And guess what? Christian believers are known for being disobedient. Does God grieve this? I think so. Your witness is compromised. Does God convict with this? yes. But isn't that the way it is in all that we do? Will God keep you out of heaven for it? No. It's showing a good conscience toward your Father in heaven by getting baptized. Let God convict those who haven't done it yet and are believers.

The salvation part is done by the baptism of the Holy Spirit internally.

 

[greatdivide46]

I'm not asking whether or not it should be done. Of course I believe believers should be baptized. My question was if a believer dies without being baptized does he go to heaven?

I think it depends on the circumstances. If an individual cannot be baptized for physical reasons, or is never told about baptism and they die, I believe they will go to heaven. However, if someone knows about baptism and still refuses to be baptized I would question their final destination.

 

[greatdivide46]

Originally posted by anada

Baptismal regeneration is the belief that a person must be baptized in order to be saved.

I would disagree with this. My understanding is that the baptismal regenerationist believes that the waters of baptism save. Believing that a person must be baptized in order to be saved in no way infers that it is the waters of baptism that save. Only God can save a person and scripturally speaking He chooses to accomplish that salvation at the point when a person is baptized. To me that is not baptism regeneration since the baptism is not the cause of salvation nor does it obligate God to save a person. It's simply the time when God chooses to save the repentant, believing sinner.

 

[hopeinGod]

Most of the Church today do not have an understanding of the threefold makeup of a believer. In fact, there is a great deal of confusion regarding the working of each.

We are spirit, soul and body, and each of these parts has a baptism that is associated with it. The spirit is regenerated through Christ's atoning blood, or blood baptism. The soul is empowered through the Spirit baptism. And the body is separated unto the Lord through water baptism.

So, essentially, yes, a person is born through baptism, but it is not of water or Spirit, but of blood. 1 John 1:5 is a good source for reference here.
Dave