The Sabbath: Why do Christians say Sunday?

[Ronald]

There is never one teaching that Jesus says "gentiles, close thy ears - this is for Jews only".

Most of His teachings were considered nuances to Jewish theology, radical and more applicable to gentiles. But the Old Covenant was still observed thoughout His ministry and that part was an historical lesson of where Christianity came from and where it was going. Law became obsolete, Grace replaced it. When the rich man asked what shall I do to enter into the kingdom of heaven, Jesus (still under the law) reiterated the commandments, sell everything and give it to the poor and follow Me. If that man approached Him after He rose from the dead, He would have said believe that I died for your sins and rose on the third day. The Law and the Prophets were so much a part of Jewish life and so a different approach in spreading the gospel had to be used. That's all I'm saying, there were teachings more applicable to the Jews then Gentiles. Paul reasoned with the Jews every Sabbath. He used the Law and the Prophets as a witness to validate who Jesus was.
Don't you think He used a different approach in his ministry to the Gentiles? They couldn't relate to the Jewish way, it wasn't the disciples intention to put that burden on their backs.

 

[TanteBelle]

That's exactly why the term "Judaizing" is entirely appropriate. It makes absolutely no sense to me why any Christian would abandon the celebration of the victory of Christ over death and the salvation of the whole world to celebrate death. The Pharaoh had a few shots to relent earlier for sure, but it's still a fairly grisly thing to celebrate. More so when the alternative is the celebration of the universal salvation of all mankind.

We aren't trying to become Jews. This is where folks have got it wrong; the feasts and Shabbat and all are not Jewish, they are Biblical. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses even were not Jews; they were Hebrews and men of faith. How on earth do we throw out the relevence of Messiah by keeping the feasts? The feasts hold the key to salvation. Pesach/Passover representing His death and our acceptance of His blood, Unleavened Bread representing out purging out of sin in our lives, the feasts of first fruits representing when He conquered the grave and rose from the dead and we coming into newness of life by accepting Him .... and it goes on down the line. The feasts have far more to do than just what was written in the OT.

Hanukkah is so significant that the Jews all but forgot about it for centuries, until they decided they needed their own Christmas. So minor Jewish festival that fell into obscurity, or the birth of the savior of the world. Doesn't really seem like it should be much of a contest for a Christian. Christianity isn't "Judaism light."

I'll agree with you there; I don't hold to Hanukkah because of so much 'story telling' with no truth involved there. Among other issues. Anyone cares to know just ask. But no, I don't celebrate Hanukkah and God never commanded us to. But I have nothing against someone who chooses to.

Most of His teachings were considered nuances to Jewish theology, radical and more applicable to gentiles. But the Old Covenant was still observed thoughout His ministry and that part was an historical lesson of where Christianity came from and where it was going. Law became obsolete, Grace replaced it. When the rich man asked what shall I do to enter into the kingdom of heaven, Jesus (still under the law) reiterated the commandments, sell everything and give it to the poor and follow Me. If that man approached Him after He rose from the dead, He would have said believe that I died for your sins and rose on the third day. The Law and the Prophets were so much a part of Jewish life and so a different approach in spreading the gospel had to be used. That's all I'm saying, there were teachings more applicable to the Jews then Gentiles. Paul reasoned with the Jews every Sabbath. He used the Law and the Prophets as a witness to validate who Jesus was.
Don't you think He used a different approach in his ministry to the Gentiles? They couldn't relate to the Jewish way, it wasn't the disciples intention to put that burden on their backs.

How was there not grace in the OT? The OT is a picture perfect story of grace! Grace is not a new idea, what's new is grace through Messiah's blood! Before, it was grace through faith in God by the blood of a lamb. Only now, we're talking about THE Lamb.

What makes you think that Yeshua would have said differently after He rose? The apostles were still giving the same message that Yeshua gave in His ministry: 'Repent!' Repent of what if there is no law to sin against?

When Paul was in the synagogues, he also addressed the 'Gentiles who worship God' because in the synagogues, there was the quarter for the gentiles. James said in Acts, 'For Moses is being preached in every city of those that worship God on the Shabbat'. 'They are zealous for the torah!' James was talking about Gentiles here. They knew the torah because they too heard the torah being read every Shabbat in the synagogues from the quarters of the Gentiles! It wasn't new to them at all! However, what was new was getting rid of the Jewish tradition which Yeshua was also against. But as to torah, Yeshua said to the people, 'All that the scribes and Pharisees tell you to do DO IT! But don't use their works as your example for they say and do not!' What they were teaching the people was right; they taught torah observance but they didn't practice what they preached.

 

[SneakerPimp53]

As I said in my first post here - there are those among Sabbath keepers (or I should speak for myself, those who attempt to keep Sabbath but do not always live up to it - but will preach it nonetheless) - anyway - among these there are a few of us who believe that Christ rose on the Sabbath (what we call Saturday) and reject the translation "first day of the week". This belief neccessitates there being both an annual and weekly Sabbath during passover week.

To those, therefore - celebrating on Saturday is as much a belief in the risen Christ as those who celebrate the resurrection on Sunday.

Bishop Gregory of Tours (A.D. 538-594) tells us that many in France believed Christ arose on the seventh day of the week, even though he himself defended a Sunday resurrection belief. He stated, "Now in our belief the resurrection of the Lord was on the first day, and not on the seventh as many deem - Gregory of Tours, The History of the Franks, Vol. 2, (trans. by D.M. Dalton), Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1927, p. 24.

This really has nothing to do with sabbath keeping, but with the idea of replacing a celebration of the Resurrection with passover.

"Many" doesn't really mean much of anything. During the middle ages there were "many" gnostics in France. There were "many" Arians in the early church, and it's pretty funny considering it was you harping that numbers don't make something correct. So there was nothing here but many people in France that were incorrect.

The only large sect of Christianity I'm aware of that engages in sabbath keeping are the SDA's. The SDA's got their start as the Millerites, a doomsday cult that believed the world was going to end in 1843. Based on some nonsense calculations. That obviously didn't happen, which is when Ellen White came on the scene, magically reinterpreted the nonsense and the SDA's were born. Not exactly a sound group of people to taking the lead from as it were.

 

[Stravinsk]

This really has nothing to do with sabbath keeping, but with the idea of replacing a celebration of the Resurrection with passover.

Huh?

I'm not sure what you mean. But I will say this - doesn't it just seem a little odd to you that God would spend thousands of years teaching the Jews particular fesivals and holy days and what have you, just to have them replaced with new ones - holidays and observances (Sunday keeping, Christmas,Easter,Lent etc) - that neither Christ kept Himself NOR taught about?

As for passover - that is exactly what He did teach. We are to partake of the cup and the bread in "rememberance" of Him - Just as previously the celebration was a rememberance of being delivered from God's wrath in Egypt!

1 Corinthians 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

"Many" doesn't really mean much of anything. During the middle ages there were "many" gnostics in France. There were "many" Arians in the early church, and it's pretty funny considering it was you harping that numbers don't make something correct. So there was nothing here but many people in France that were incorrect.

Unless I read your post wrong - you were asking why anyone would celebrate Sabbath (Saturday) because it is a celebration of death, right?(because to most it means Christ in the tomb)...in stead of Sunday which represents - in most versions of Christianity - Resurrection and Life.

I posted what I did not to make an argument by strength of numbers - but to give just one example that not all people throughout the ages and early Christianity have believed in the Sunday Resurrection of Christ. There were groups that believed He was raised on Sabbath early on.

The only large sect of Christianity I'm aware of that engages in sabbath keeping are the SDA's. The SDA's got their start as the Millerites, a doomsday cult that believed the world was going to end in 1843. Based on some nonsense calculations. That obviously didn't happen, which is when Ellen White came on the scene, magically reinterpreted the nonsense and the SDA's were born. Not exactly a sound group of people to taking the lead from as it were.

SDA may be the only "large" group that does so - but as stated before - greater numbers don't matter much, right? So painting them with the "bogus" brush then implying Sabbath keeping is assosiated with such bogusness is a little intellectually dishonest.
That said, here is a list of 500 Sabbath Keeping Christian churches/organisations:

Sabbath Keeping Churches - Sabbath Keeping Denominations

 

[TanteBelle]

I think that the Uniting Church of God (UCG) and the World Wide Church of God (WWCG) perhaps even Philidalphia Church of God (PCG) are the biggest Saturday keepers. Actually, I don't know about PCG or WWCG anymore but over here, UCG is a large denom and they're all over the globe. They keep the Sabbath (though they break it all the time!) and the feasts and food laws but they refuse any Hebrew roots.

 

[daniel82]

I think we should concede the Sabbath is Saturday. The Jews know the right day. I don't see why Christians should say,"Nah, lets make it Sunday."

To me the Sabbath is sorta irrelevant in general context though because Jesus said it is okay to do good to others on it. If you're working and using your money to help the poor, then you're doing good on the Sabbath, right? So if you're a strong faithed Christian, and everything you do is to help others come to Jesus, then every day is helping others.

But for real, why is there no big national movement to make the Sabbath on Saturday for Christians? We can still have church on Sunday, but start treating the Sabbath as Saturday.

I'm honestly curious.

i thought sunday was the first day of the week

 

[Stravinsk]

Law became obsolete, Grace replaced it.

Are you a new Christian? Just curious. The words of Christ and a number of writings by the Epistle writers seriously contradict the statement you made above.

Without law - without guilt - without acknowledgement of guilt - grace is meaningless. Where some people get the "grace=lawlessness" confounds me.

 

[Ceta_cea]

I think most important is that we all not forget we are saved because Jesus died on the cross for us and that he rised again. Why fight over details?

For me the day of God for Jews is the Sabbath which is on saturday and the day of God for christian is sunday. But this is my personal option, everyone is free to have another option.

The two most important Laws are: Love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love others as much as He loves you. If you do that, you will keep the ten commandments also, because they all are leading in those two laws.

Every other law in the OT was made so the people had it easier to keep those ten commandments. In my option it is not necessary to keep them anymore, since we now have the Holy Spirit who will guide us and we also have those two new laws.

I actually don't think we need law to tell us what is right and whats wrong. Everyone has common sense and a heart and if we listen to it we will know it. If we know it we will feel guilty. The point is will you do what is right or are you choosing to ignore it.

I actually don't see much love his thread, and I'm sad about it. I'll pray that God will lead all of us to a greater understanding of what is important to him and what is the way our enemy is trying to distract and hurt us.

 

[TanteBelle]

I think most important is that we all not forget we are saved because Jesus died on the cross for us and that he rised again. Why fight over details?

'Saved'! Precisely! As far as the saved issue goes, there's nothing more to be said there!

For me the day of God for Jews is the Sabbath which is on saturday and the day of God for christian is sunday. But this is my personal option, everyone is free to have another option.

I'm glad you said, 'For me' because God never thought so and never says so in His word.

The two most important Laws are: Love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love others as much as He loves you. If you do that, you will keep the ten commandments also, because they all are leading in those two laws.

No, that passage finishes, 'On these two hang all the torah and the prophets'. The ten commandments are just a summary of the entire torah and the prophets and those 2 summarize everything up including the ten!

Every other law in the OT was made so the people had it easier to keep those ten commandments. In my option it is not necessary to keep them anymore, since we now have the Holy Spirit who will guide us and we also have those two new laws.

I'm kinda confused here; if you think it's easier to keep the ten commandments by torah, why is it suddenly not applicable? Why make it harder? The HS is not a NT idea at all. The 'Acts 2' part of the HS is first mentioned back in Exodus very similar! The HS always has been!

I actually don't think we need law to tell us what is right and whats wrong. Everyone has common sense and a heart and if we listen to it we will know it. If we know it we will feel guilty. The point is will you do what is right or are you choosing to ignore it.

Everyone has common sense? That's first assuming that the HS is working in everyone, which it isn't, which is why we have torah so that it's very simple to see what God wants of us. It'd be hard to go into faith and be a sinner when you don't even know the rules not to sin against!

I actually don't see much love his thread, and I'm sad about it. I'll pray that God will lead all of us to a greater understanding of what is important to him and what is the way our enemy is trying to distract and hurt us.

Depending what love you're talking aobut. One type of God's love is not nice at all! But it's love nonetheless and totally needed!

 

[shinkou]

I think this one is confussing to me... but maybe I understand something. I think people are making some argument about law is not necessary anymore. I think this is wrong. When we are told that the law is replaced by the Grace, it doesn't mean that the law does not need to be followed anymore. It means that the law is not the way to get antonement from God anymore. It does not mean we do not have to follow any law anymore. It just means we can get the grace from God if we fail to following the law. We do not have to do the sacrifice to make atonement about sin anymore. But we still have to follow the rules from God.

I also think that these days some laws from the Bible was for the Jewish people and are not for us, but many are still important I think.

 

[Ceta_cea]

'Saved'! Precisely! As far as the saved issue goes, there's nothing more to be said there!

Are you Jewish or Christian? You don't have to answer, but it would be interesting to know from which stand point you come from.

I'm glad you said, 'For me' because God never thought so and never says so in His word.

Yes might be, but all christians I know keep it like that. So I do think this is the way it works. Sabbath is for the Jews and since I'm not a Jew I don't have to keep it.

No, that passage finishes, 'On these two hang all the torah and the prophets'. The ten commandments are just a summary of the entire torah and the prophets and those 2 summarize everything up including the ten!

I did mean that the ten commandments hang on those. But honestly do you keep all laws in the OT (like the ones about what you should it or not)of them? I don't think so. Some of those laws like the sacrifice laws (I'm not sure if its the right word...but my dictionary only give this one) cleary are for the Jews, because they where meant how to act in the jewish temple. So I do not think that Christian have to follow them.


I'm kinda confused here; if you think it's easier to keep the ten commandments by torah, why is it suddenly not applicable? Why make it harder? The HS is not a NT idea at all. The 'Acts 2' part of the HS is first mentioned back in Exodus very similar! The HS always has been!

It could be that I didn't write it understandable, I'm sorry unfortunately I'm not a native speaker. What I what I wanted to say is that because I keep the two laws Jesus reveal I don't have to think about the ten commandments, because I will keep them through the two new ones. Does that make more sense? I think the HS in the OT wasn't given all believer of God (which where most likely Jews) but only the prophets. I didn't meant he didn't exist. Of course he existed because God is Trinity. While after Jesus as risen and went back to God, the HS was given to all who believed in Jesus.

Everyone has common sense? That's first assuming that the HS is working in everyone, which it isn't, which is why we have torah so that it's very simple to see what God wants of us. It'd be hard to go into faith and be a sinner when you don't even know the rules not to sin against!

Yes everyone has common sense. Common sense has nothing to do with the HS. Thats why I didn't say that the HS is in everyone. He clearly is not. He is only in saved Christians. The HS is in us not only to help us not to sin but especially to get closer to God and to change us so we are more like Jesus. For example the people I work with aren't Christians, they never have read the bible. But they do know that murdering, stealing, lying and other things are bad. Everyone knows that, you don't have to read the law to know that.

Depending what love you're talking aobut. One type of God's love is not nice at all! But it's love nonetheless and totally needed!

Well God is a passionate God, he can get jealous that is true. He also loves us dearly like a father loves his children or a husband loves his wife and wants that we feel good and loved. But I do not think that fighting over details is needed. I also don't think God likes it, because if we do that it is much easier for our enemy to get a hold on us. That shouldn't be our intension.

I also never said we shouldn't follow any law anymore. What I did say was that some of the laws doesn't apply for Christians.

 

[Ronald]

We aren't trying to become Jews. This is where folks have got it wrong; the feasts and Shabbat and all are not Jewish, they are Biblical.

As Christians, we are not required to participlate in any OT rituals, ceremonies, feasts, law keeping and all other burdens that were carried by the Jews. Christ fulfilled the Law for us.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses even were not Jews; they were Hebrews and men of faith. How on earth do we throw out the relevence of Messiah by keeping the feasts? The feasts hold the key to salvation. Pesach/Passover representing His death and our acceptance of His blood, Unleavened Bread representing out purging out of sin in our lives, the feasts of first fruits representing when He conquered the grave and rose from the dead and we coming into newness of life by accepting Him .... and it goes on down the line. The feasts have far more to do than just what was written in the OT.

God promised Abraham that he would be the father of a great nation, Israel -- but more importantly billions of future Christian! Spiritually, we call him the father of faith too. He was to sacrifice Isaac in the same place that Jesus sacrificed himself 2,000 years later. That's not coincidence. The OT is fascinating, the Jews are special people. Don't get me wrong. And the veil will be lifted over the Jews' eyes soon. (Rom.11:25, 26)
It is clearly stated in Romans 3:24: We are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. And in Rom. 5:2, We have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. God's saving grace is what we are talking about. Everything is from God and of course He showed grace in the OT, but salvation came by faith through grace. And this salvation through Christ was imputed to OT saints as well.

Messianic Jews can keep any feasts you choose to -- no problem. I recognize that they are historical, but I myself do not have to keep them. I participated in a Seder couple years back and my church has it every year but we are not required to go. You painted a picture of the symbolism that the Passover has. All these ceremonies and feasts were a shadow of the Messiah. The sacrifices of animals were a shadow of the once and for all sacrifice. It is important to know were Christianity came from and I appreciate that. I do have a little Jewish blood in me myself - great Grandma on my mother's side.
God Bless you sister.

 

[TanteBelle]

Okay, I'm itching to reply to both these posts! However, I'm on the run and can't as yet but will reply ASAP! Cheers folks!

But to quickly reply to Ceta about am I Christian or Jewish; I'm neither. I'm Messianic. The way we see it is like this; okay, we know that the Shabbat was changed by Rome (among many other things). Let's take faith aside, find the historical facts and build it from there. What is the original faith and what has been added in by Rome? So, if the Shabbat was admittingly changed by Rome, then what were the apostles keeping? The Shabbat obviously, as were the very first church. My Messiah was not a Roman/Greek/European/ or whatever. He was a Hebrew/Israeli/Jew. I can't find the truth of faith through the lens of the Roman Catholic doctrine or through Greek and Roman influence. I have to go back to where the faith came from. My Messiah was a Hebrew by faith and a Jew by birth. The first church was not called Christians; that was Rome's influence. They were either called another sect of the Jews or they were called 'Messianics at Antioch'. Most of the controversy as to what is the old covenant or the NC is from the writings of Paul. So, rather than just read Paul, let's find what others said about Paul to know where he was coming from and what was his stance. Paul was not anti-torah either for Jew or Greek. Paul himself was not anti-torah; he was totally pro torah! We know that he was hard to understand but that is our fault not his. We know that the Jews at the time who were anti-Messiah could not find one fault with Paul!!!! Their only problem with Paul was his belief of the 'One who was raised from the dead'. That is all they had against him. If Paul was teaching that gentiles did not have to keep torah, the Jews could easily have stoned him on the spot. But they had nothing against him! How can they have nothing against Paul if he was anti-torah either for Jew or Greek? And here's one thing that folks really need to think on; Abraham and the entire Israel nation were of Syrian origin! Abraham and Sarah were Syrians! So how can folk say that the Gentiles don't have to keep torah when Jews themselves are of a Gentile origin? What made them Israel was purely by the covenant of faith! As it is to this day!

 

[TanteBelle]

Sorry, Ceta but I can't seem to just quote you as you've posted all your replies in my quote! LOL!

I don't mean to say this in a harsh way but from where I view my faith; I don't care what folks say, what's being taught in the pulpits, what's the majority's vote, or what they 'think works best'. I'm interested in what the book says. If we can't line our faith up 100% with what the book says, then how can we claim to represent the One who wrote that book? That's like turning up to a company and you're getting a job there but then breaking all the rules and yet claiming to represent that company. It doesn't work. God laid down the rules because He knows what works best. 'If you love Me, keep My commandments' 'And this is the love of God that we keep His commandments'. 'He who says I know Him and keeps not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.' This is serious business here! No where in torah or the entire Bible does it say that the Shabbat is only for Jews because God never gave it to Jews; He gave it to Israel. Folks need to realize the difference here. Abraham was an Israelite but he was not a Jew. Moses was an Israelite but he was not a Jew. You don't find the word Jew until you reach the southern kingdom of Judah (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi being the tribes there) and then afterward with the descendants of Judah. But God was always about one people under Him. Not divisions and groups all scattered here and there. 'For there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism.' I keep as many of the torah laws as I can. Obviously, nations laws and all I can't because I am not the head of the Aussie government! Dang that! But as far as my daily life, what I do, what I eat, how I dress, how I treat my neighbour and all, yes, I do strive to and everytime I read torah, I find something new. Okay, for example, in torah it says that the Lord will not accept as an offering the price for a harlot (meaning payment from them). I did a job once for a couple of people who were s*xually immoral and I wanted to give something to God and then I was suddenly like, 'Wait a minute! God said that He would not accept as an offering the price of a harlot!' That's serious stuff! Though I wanted to give something to God to help others, I couldn't give that particular gift because God said it was a sin to do such a thing. Now, there are some laws that are not applicable today, yes ....

and I'll have to get back to this! One the run again!

 

[Shadesofgray]

I know I said I was done with this thread... but I got drawn back in. The Bible actually does say that the Sabbath was given to the Isrealites as a sign of the covenant between them and God in Ezekiel 20. Therefore as Christians under the new covenant, we are not held to the tradition of the Sabbath. That being said, I do belive that God still demands a day of rest from his followers once a week. I just don't believe that it has to be Saturday. There is in fact a lot of evidence to support the fact that the day we recognize as the seventh day of the week is not the same day the Jews originally kept as the Sabbath. I believe that it is important to keep one day of the week for rest, but that following the command to rest is more important than the actual day we do it on.

 

[TanteBelle]

.... sorry 'bout that! I was on the road and then the boss' truck passed me so i had to go! LOL!

Okay, where did I finish!? Oh yep, okay, there are some laws that are not applicable. The temple services for one because we don't have a temple but where did it say that the temple was for the Jews? It was for the Israelites. The sacrifices obviously because we know that Yeshua is the perfect Lamb. Then there are some that are purely there for hygiene reasons. You mentioned common sense ...... NT 'common sense' is what wiped out much of Europe because of the black plague! Except the Jews! Why!? Because God knew about germs, disease, quarantine, and the like! He had it written down in torah and the Jews followed those laws because they trusted that if they kept His torah, He would preserve them. But the NT Europe accused the Jews of casting spells on them because of the disease!! Common sense? Scripture says what kind of common sense we have; 'For we know that the torah is spiritual, but I am carnal sold under sin!' Whoa, wait a minute! Back up a bit! Paul said what? 'For we know that THE TORAH IS SPIRITUAL!!' If it's spiritual then you can not get rid of it no matter how hard you try! God said, 'My covenants will I not break nor alter the thing that goes out of My lips!' Paul goes on; 'For the carnal mind is enmity against God, it is not subject to the torah of God NOR INDEED CAN IT BE! For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.' Paul says elsewhere, 'For not the hearers of the torah are just before God but the DOERS OF THE TORAH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.' Paul describes torah as the 'perfect law of liberty'. Listen to how David praised torah in the Psalms particularly 119. And now the NT believers are trying to tell everyone that it was a curse? A bondage? I have no doubt that David would turn in his grave if he heard that. Do we have enough common sense to know how to treat our neighbour in business? What we must do if we steal? And depending on the type of theft, the punishment changes? How to obey God's rules for agriculture? We totally lack common sense! The carnal mind can not be subject to the laws of God and a carnal mind is exactly what we have! I remember as a kid, when I was Christian, I would lay awake at night contemplating God and crying because I wanted to be closer to Him and do what He wanted of me and to know that I could do right. I wanted to be called 'a friend of God' as Abraham was. I wanted to be called a woman after God's heart as David was a man after His heart! But I didn't know how! How do you follow the rules of an unseen God whom you can't have a one on one conversation with? You can't touch Him? You can't see Him? How do you do that? God had an answer; torah. It was His contract/covenant with His people. He'd already signed it; we just had to make the choice as to whether or not we were! The contract still stands; the terms and conditions may have altered a little, but the standing part of the contract/covenant is still exactly that; standing! Yeshua said, 'Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from torah till all be fulfilled!' Heaven and earth are still here and not all has come to pass!

Someone mentioned about the feasts being a 'shadow'. Yes, they are. But Yeshua's only made one coming to earth. Sukkot/Tabernacles is about Yeshua coming to 'tabernacle' with man. And guess what? In the new kingdom, they're celebrating the feast of Sukkot!!!

 

[ks777]

Over the past couple of weeks I've been trying to only eat what is considered 'food' in our Fathers eyes. I never realised how prevalent it was in my life before. I went to 'blue water pizza' last week, and the whole menu only had a couple of options which didn't contain swine. One was vegetarian and one was chicken, so I got the chicken.

It's something I was never even taught about in church. The topic of food has never been focused on, and I've been attending church every sunday my entire life. When the question of food is raised, I always had the same answer as 95% of Christians; those laws don't apply. That's what I was taught and that's what I thought. I never questioned it until now. I'd love to see a good food debate using scripture because personally, I don't think there's any way a 'all animals are food' position would win. Yahshua didn't declare all animals clean, He declared all 'food' clean. Everyone at the time knew full well what was food and what wasn't.

If God says not to eat something, it can't be healthy.

 

[TanteBelle]

Many Muslims have never read the Bible either and they would agree that murder, stealing, lying and such are not good ............ but according to whose definition of good? Honour killings are great! Lying to the infidel is great! Thieving an infidel is great! Good? Twisted I'd say! God has very specific rules as to what is good. White supremacists? What's their idea of good? Where's their common sense?

This is where we differ greatly because I don't believe that the HS is God at all. Scripture gives no real evidence for that; on the contrary, it teaches otherwise. And what does the HS have to do with common sense? EVERYTHING! 'Behold I shall send the comforter and he shall teach you all things.' If you blaspheme him, you don't have forgiveness!! How do you know if you blaspheme him? If we have common sense then we don't need the HS. No one can keep the HS in them; only at the word of God does he come and go and use us or direct us. And not all who are saved have the HS as Acts says otherwise. David had the HS as he pleaded with God, 'Do not take Your HS from me!'

 

[TanteBelle]

Over the past couple of weeks I've been trying to only eat what is considered 'food' in our Fathers eyes. I never realised how prevalent it was in my life before. I went to 'blue water pizza' last week, and the whole menu only had a couple of options which didn't contain swine. One was vegetarian and one was chicken, so I got the chicken.

It's something I was never even taught about in church. The topic of food has never been focused on, and I've been attending church every sunday my entire life. When the question of food is raised, I always had the same answer as 95% of Christians; those laws don't apply. That's what I was taught and that's what I thought. I never questioned it until now. I'd love to see a good food debate using scripture because personally, I don't think there's any way a 'all animals are food' position would win. Yahshua didn't declare all animals clean, He declared all 'food' clean. Everyone at the time knew full well what was food and what wasn't.

If God says not to eat something, it can't be healthy.

Great insight, my friend! Because God knew about diseases and what is and is not good for your body! So, He was nice enough to let us know before we understood science! And yes, the more you choose to follow His dietry laws, the more you realize how much 'unclean' food is used for what we'd think is clean. I was talking to a Jew who grew up very religious in Israel and he said to me, 'I'm not eating much! There's nothing in this town to eat!' I'm like, 'What do you mean?' 'The food laws and eating kosher!' Oh, I get you! Now he was talking about JEWISH TRADITIONS regarding kosher eating which are not in torah and so to him, we had nothing to eat in town! LOL! Poor bloke!

But the issues regarding Peter and the dream is totally taken waaaaay out of context!!! Food is not the issue there at all!

 

[TanteBelle]

Just to correct Ronald in his quotation of Paul; it says that we are SAVED by grace, not that we obtain salvation through grace. Big difference!

And to gently contradict Shades, the Shabbat was established in Genesis between God and His people, not in Exodus or in Ezekiel.