Loving Homosexuals to Death..................

[ChaliceThunder]

Coming up!

And one for you also DMagoh!

tulc(who loves a huge cup of hot coffee on a hot day!)

WOW - I was offering it to YOU, bro.
You are so generous...thanks!
CT(thinking of getting a Starbuck's card for the HQ)

 

[calvins96]

I don't have the time now, but later on I'll post proof that it is, in fact, heterosexual men, sexism, and most of all poverty that is spreading AIDS in most nations.

Or are we loving those in poverty-stricken nations to death, too, by denying them educations, rights, clean water, etc?

Sally..feel free to post proof of what you have but do it if it's what you want to do. Don't expect those that should read it and understand it will...it is not biblical, therefore, it need not exist. Their tolerance level is less than zero, so anything outside of their warped reality is unacceptable. I would, however, be interested in seeing it, so if you/when you have the time post it. I look forward to it. peace

 

[IamRedeemed]

If you've got it post it.
OR .............. you could do what many of them do in here and just repeat it a few hundred times and get your friends to chant with you and maybe it will just be "assumed" to be true by some after awhile.

Just so that you know, in the 1980's when AIDS were first discovered here in the USA (where I live for those who keep asking why I focus on US stats)
It was discovered in the two most expensive states in the US. California and NY as a boggling disease to the medical field occurring specifically to HOMOSEXUAL MEN.

So, I for one would be extremely interested in the opportunity to discredit your manufactured stats that you are going to get and deliver from one of your favorite pro-sodomy agenda websites.

Sally..feel free to post proof of what you have but do it if it's what you want to do. Don't expect those that should read it and understand it will...it is not biblical, therefore, it need not exist. Their tolerance level is less than zero, so anything outside of their warped reality is unacceptable. I would, however, be interested in seeing it, so if you/when you have the time post it. I look forward to it. peace

 

[tulc]

So, I for one would be extremely interested in the opportunity to discredit your manufactured stats that you are going to get and deliver from one of your favorite pro-sodomy agenda websites.

Ahhh. How...open minded of you.
tulc(just another chanter)

 

[GwynApNudd]

So, I for one would be extremely interested in the opportunity to discredit your manufactured stats that you are going to get and deliver from one of your favorite pro-sodomy agenda websites.

I posted links yesterday that you still haven't responded to, much taken the "opportunity to discredit":

Please learn the facts about way Aids spreads, and the facts about the history of the epidemic.
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/HIV-infection-AIDS

http://www.aidsarchive.com/Home.aspx

These are not "gay" websites. They are impartial, scholarly, sites maintained by disinterested, dedicated professionals.

This last one is the site for the Centers for Desease Control -- the government watchdog for controlling epidemics. The same government that has been controlled by the Right for the last six and a half years, and which was also controlled by the Right throughout the 80's, when there might have been at least a chance to contain it.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/

 

[calvins96]

If you've got it post it.
OR .............. you could do what many of them do in here and just repeat it a few hundred times and get your friends to chant with you and maybe it will just be "assumed" to be true by some after awhile.

Just so that you know, in the 1980's when AIDS were first discovered here in the USA (where I live for those who keep asking why I focus on US stats)
It was discovered in the two most expensive states in the US. California and NY as a boggling disease to the medical field occurring specifically to HOMOSEXUAL MEN.

So, I for one would be extremely interested in the opportunity to discredit your manufactured stats that you are going to get and deliver from one of your favorite pro-sodomy agenda websites.

Please tell me what "two of the most expensive states in the US" has to do with anything??? Perhaps it would have been better if it was in our beautiful bible belt, where kids are lucky to graduate high school and look forward to getting married @ 16 so they can give their 4 year old child a "real" home? Maybe that's what you're referring to?? Then again, coming from you, one can only wonder....

 

[IamRedeemed]

It was in response to part of SallyNow's post actually. You should have scrolled up a couple of posts and you would have seen the following:

Originally Posted by SallyNow
I don't have the time now, but later on I'll post proof that it is, in fact, heterosexual men, sexism, and most of all poverty that is spreading AIDS in most nations. Or are we loving those in poverty-stricken nations to death, too, by denying them educations, rights, clean water, etc?

Now, in response to the rest of your post Calvin96:
You are very prejudice against people you think are "Southern folks" aren't you? Between this comment and one you made about PHD's coming from Alabama or whatever, tells me you have some deep prejudicial issues. In fact, although your posts have seemed to have a hateful tone toward lovers of truth to begin with, your hypocrisy has become especially evident ever since about the time you accused others of " bash, spew, and speak hateful tactics to us." That's pretty much all you have done. lol

I am a native NYer who grew up in Las Vegas and Arizona just so you know.
Do you have any predisposed prejudices against those states and the direction they are located at on the map? (N.W.S.E.)

I even spent a few years of my adulthood in your state of NJ as well, in the northern area in fact. Does Route 80 and 202 sound familiar to you? How about Rte 287? Rte 10?

Trust me, it isn't where you live that determines who you are and what you stand for, it is what lives inside of you that does... what it is that you allow to inhabit that "southerly" location between your ears and in your heart. Think about that...... (~selah)

Please tell me what "two of the most expensive states in the US" has to do with anything??? Perhaps it would have been better if it was in our beautiful bible belt, where kids are lucky to graduate high school and look forward to getting married @ 16 so they can give their 4 year old child a "real" home? Maybe that's what you're referring to?? Then again, coming from you, one can only wonder....

 

[SallyNow]

Okay, here are those promised stats:

UN report on how AIDS information is gathered
UN report on how poverty and being part of a minority group is a risk factor for AIDS and lots of other interesting things about poverty
A set of UN PDF files about AIDS
A PDF file from the above page Aids Epidemic Update 2006
Being a woman in a nation of war a major factor in AIDS and, also, rectal disfunctions wrongly called "gay bowel syndrome" are often seen in women raped by men, also in women who give birth too young or who do not have proper medical care:
Amnesty International PDF File
UNICEF's PDF File also explains it
A chart from the same website in the OP... a chart which describes the full epidemic of AIDS, and not just the small minority of cases in the world which occur in the USA: Worldwide AIDS Stats In fact, what is most startling fact to many may be that AIDS in the USA make up only a small portion of the AIDS cases worldwide - and that the prevalence of AIDS in the USA population is very low compared to many other nations, and that the USA isn't representitive of worldwide AIDS trends.

That's it for now. I think it paints a horrible enough picture of how AIDS is a disease of poverty, war and the marginalizing of minorities, and not homosexuality.

 

[Tenebrae]

.....erm....what he was doing is trying to give society a WAKE UP CALL.
An alert to the medical FACTS. The Netherlands legalized homosexual marriage in 2001,

Nope wrong

The Netherlands were the first country in the world to recognize same sex unions and the law was passed in 1989. Verification can be found here and here.

and report SOARING HIV/AIDS and other disease statistics among homosexual men and just like the US, the HIV/AIDs disease first appeared in the Netherlands among the gay male population in the 1980's.

Sources please

This was not a "religious plea" it is a plea to the common sense of any one who is literate and gives a crying care about society as a whole, or want to keep killing people in return for a few moments of sexual gratification.

Reading IS fundamental!

So is research

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Okay, here are those promised stats:

UN report on how AIDS information is gathered
UN report on how poverty and being part of a minority group is a risk factor for AIDS and lots of other interesting things about poverty
A set of UN PDF files about AIDS
A PDF file from the above page Aids Epidemic Update 2006
Being a woman in a nation of war a major factor in AIDS and, also, rectal disfunctions wrongly called "gay bowel syndrome" are often seen in women raped by men, also in women who give birth too young or who do not have proper medical care:
Amnesty International PDF File
UNICEF's PDF File also explains it
A chart from the same website in the OP... a chart which describes the full epidemic of AIDS, and not just the small minority of cases in the world which occur in the USA: Worldwide AIDS Stats In fact, what is most startling fact to many may be that AIDS in the USA make up only a small portion of the AIDS cases worldwide - and that the prevalence of AIDS in the USA population is very low compared to many other nations, and that the USA isn't representitive of worldwide AIDS trends.

That's it for now. I think it paints a horrible enough picture of how AIDS is a disease of poverty, war and the marginalizing of minorities, and not homosexuality.[/SIZE]

And what are the statistics for the U.S. of A, which is all we are really concerned with?

 

[IamRedeemed]

From calvin96's favorite site

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

The first recognised cases of AIDS occurred in the USA in the early 1980s (more about this period can be found on our history page). A number of gay men in New York and San Francisco suddenly began to develop rare opportunistic infections and cancers that seemed stubbornly resistant to any treatment. At this time, AIDS did not yet have a name, but it quickly became obvious that all the men were suffering from a common syndrome.
The discovery of HIV, the Human Immunodeficiency Virus, was made soon after. While some were initially resistant to acknowledge the connection (and indeed some remain so today), there is now clear evidence to prove that HIV CAUSES AIDS.

(Believe it or not there are some that still tout that HIV does NOT cause AIDS.)
Continuing on from calvin96's favorite site...

http://www.avert.org/aidsyounggaymen.htm
Are young gay men particularly affected by HIV and AIDS?

Yes. In the USA, the UK, a number of other European countries, and other parts of the world such as Latin America, HIV and AIDS have affected young gay men more than any other group of people.

In the UK and USA especially, the percentage
of young gay men who have been infected
with HIV and the percentage with AIDS
are much higher
than those among other groups
such as heterosexual people or children.

Despite the continuing impact of HIV & AIDS there are signs that awareness is waning among young people. For example, recent research with British teenagers has shown decreasing awareness of HIV & AIDS.3 The same pattern of increasing prevalence and decreasing awareness exists for STIs as a whole and many young people, including young gay men, may underestimate how likely they are to be exposed to sexually transmitted infections (STIs) including HIV. There is also evidence that in some places, even where they are otherwise well-informed about HIV and STIs, young people do not believe that they are vulnerable to contracting them.4

I am not ignorant to the rest of the world. But I believe that it is extremely significant
to point out the origin in "affluent" societies.

Because when we place our focus on places like Africa which is not a country,
but rather an entire CONTINENT, that has a lot more variables as to what people
might THINK could be the source, the source is lost in the widened possibilities.

When it happens in affluent areas and it is ORIGINATING in the GAY MALE population,
it makes the picture tune in a little clearer as to the SOURCE of the problem. Especially
when, even now despite others having been affected due to Bisexuality of MEN and
needle sharing with infected persons, (heterosexual women and men as well as
children are added to statistics), Homosexual Men STILL rank as #1,
for HIV/AIDS and related deaths.

 

[SallyNow]

And what are the statistics for the U.S. of A, which is all we are really concerned with?

Why are "we", a international debate fora, only concerned with statistics from the USA? AIDS in the USA is only a tiny fraction of the AIDS cases worldwide Here, take a look for yourself: Worldwide AIDS stats

Not to mention that in sub-Saharan Africa women are more likely to have AIDS than men
sub-Sharan Stats not to mention that the rate of AIDS is much higher in sub-Saharan Africa than it is the USA. Of great worry is mother to child transmission, something which can only be prevented by proper maternal and pediatric care, something most in sub-Saharan Africa have little of.

UN Article on mother-to-child tranmission In fact, in just a year and a half, more children in sub-Saharan Africa get AIDS from mother-to-child transmission than there are currently AIDS patients in the USA. More children in sSA get AIDS through mother-to-child tranmission in a year than the number of AIDS deaths in the USA to date (here are the USA Stats and the child stats are linked above.

Poverty is the main cause of AIDS worldwide.

For those who only read something when it is bolded and colourful, I'll say it again:

Worldwide, poverty is the main cause of AIDS.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Why are "we", a international debate fora, only concerned with statistics from the USA? AIDS in the USA is only a tiny fraction of the AIDS cases worldwide Here, take a look for yourself: Worldwide AIDS stats

Not to mention that in sub-Saharan Africa women are more likely to have AIDS than men
sub-Sharan Stats not to mention that the rate of AIDS is much higher in sub-Saharan Africa than it is the USA. Of great worry is mother to child transmission, something which can only be prevented by proper maternal and pediatric care, something most in sub-Saharan Africa have little of.

UN Article on mother-to-child tranmission In fact, in just a year and a half, more children in sub-Saharan Africa get AIDS from mother-to-child transmission than there are currently AIDS patients in the USA. More children in sSA get AIDS through mother-to-child tranmission in a year than the number of AIDS deaths in the USA to date (here are the USA Stats and the child stats are linked above.

Poverty is the main cause of AIDS worldwide.[/SIZE]

And to think I anticipated this irrelevant counterargument and almost posted a disclaimer.

Do please note the title of this forum, Debates on Homosexuality, NOT a discussion of disease pathology in undeveloped countries. All your statistics belong in another forum and another topic.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Apparently you did not see my post and MISSED the entire point AGAINST your POVERTY THEORY.

So I will post those relevant points again.

In the USA, the UK, a number of other European countries, and other parts of the world such as Latin America, HIV and AIDS have affected young gay men more than any other group of people.

In the UK and USA especially, the percentage
of young gay men who have been infected
with HIV and the percentage with AIDS
are much higher
than those among other groups
such as heterosexual people or children.

When it happens in affluent areas and it is ORIGINATING in the GAY MALE population,
it makes the picture tune in a little clearer as to the SOURCE of the problem,
which is NOT POVERTY. It is SODOMY.

Why are "we", a international debate fora, only concerned with statistics from the USA? AIDS in the USA is only a tiny fraction of the AIDS cases worldwide Here, take a look for yourself: Worldwide AIDS stats

Not to mention that in sub-Saharan Africa women are more likely to have AIDS than men
sub-Sharan Stats not to mention that the rate of AIDS is much higher in sub-Saharan Africa than it is the USA. Of great worry is mother to child transmission, something which can only be prevented by proper maternal and pediatric care, something most in sub-Saharan Africa have little of.

UN Article on mother-to-child tranmission In fact, in just a year and a half, more children in sub-Saharan Africa get AIDS from mother-to-child transmission than there are currently AIDS patients in the USA. More children in sSA get AIDS through mother-to-child tranmission in a year than the number of AIDS deaths in the USA to date (here are the USA Stats and the child stats are linked above.

Poverty is the main cause of AIDS worldwide.

For those who only read something when it is bolded and colourful, I'll say it again:

Worldwide, poverty is the main cause of AIDS.

 

[OnceUponAChristian]

and Homo Sapiens is just one of them. I guess penguins, chimps, antelope, lions and other animals have fallen too?!

 

[IamRedeemed]

Even if your statement were accurate, NOT ONE of those "comparative" species were made in the IMAGE OF GOD. Not one of those "comparative" species has a redemption plan. NOT ONE of those "comparative" species were issued a MORAL CODE.

Null/VOID-Irrational/Illogical position

and Homo Sapiens is just one of them. I guess penguins, chimps, antelope, lions and other animals have fallen too?!

 

[SallyNow]

Apparently you did not see my post and MISSED the entire point AGAINST your POVERTY THEORY.

So I will post those relevant points again.

In the USA, the UK, a number of other European countries, and other parts of the world such as Latin America, HIV and AIDS have affected young gay men more than any other group of people.

In the UK and USA especially, the percentage
of young gay men who have been infected
with HIV and the percentage with AIDS
are much higher
than those among other groups
such as heterosexual people or children.

When it happens in affluent areas and it is ORIGINATING in the GAY MALE population,
it makes the picture tune in a little clearer as to the SOURCE of the problem,
which is NOT POVERTY. It is SODOMY.

No, it is not. Lack of medical care, lack of education, lack of choices in careers - in simple terms poverty - are the main causes of AIDS worldwide.

Gay men didn't even originate AIDS. Take a look at this report from the BBC

No matter how hard the facts are manipulated the main cause of AIDS is still poverty. AIDS and homosexuality are not linked, worldwide, in a way that somehow shows any special condemnation of homosexuals.

I know that "AIDS=Homosexual Americans" theories presented by many fall apart when worldwide statistics are examined, which is exactly why I am posting them.

Another cause is the marginalization of a sub-group within a wider population. An example right in the USA is African American women. CDC

So my point, you see, is that the idea in the OP is easily disprovable. Even the wrongly-title "gay bowel syndrome" can occur to women giving birth! And it does happen often in some place. Some facts on fistula (the proper term) from the Fistula Foundation and also to women who participate in sodomy, often with their husbands.

 

[OnceUponAChristian]

Even if your statement were accurate, NOT ONE of those "comparative" species were made in the IMAGE OF GOD. Not one of those "comparative" species has a redemption plan. NOT ONE of those "comparative" species were issued a MORAL CODE.

Null/VOID-Irrational/Illogical position

Even when I was a Christian, I was never a fundy who believed in an anthropomorphic deity, who 'created man' in 'his image'. Since I am an agnostic/apatheist my point is very rational and relevant. Oh, and animals have ethics too. Our own moral instincts are derivative of the same evolutionary processes that affect all species. We weren't 'given' anything, it was developed over millions of years.

In any event if you studied how vast and enormous and complex the universe is you certainly wouldn't be arguing about an issue as irrelevant as homosexuality...

 

[IamRedeemed]

That would explain the atheistic view you have and apparently always had
by your own testimony. You should also be aware that as a NON-Christian,
you are NOT ALLOWED to post in the Christians ONLY section.

Even when I was a Christian, I was never a fundy who believed in an anthropomorphic deity, who 'created man' in 'his image'. Since I am an agnostic/apatheist my point is very rational and relevant. Oh, and animals have ethics too. Our own moral instincts are derivative of the same evolutionary processes that affect all species. We weren't 'given' anything, it was developed over millions of years.

In any event if you studied how vast and enormous and complex the universe is you certainly wouldn't be arguing about an issue as irrelevant as homosexuality...

 

[IamRedeemed]

Apparently the OP has not be disproven.
Failure to speak the truth about the sin of homosexual practices in itself is a sin,
and that is, as the OP declares, "LOVING" people to a second and eternal death.

Failure to speak the truth about the medical consequences of sodomy is Loving
people to an early grave as well, and helping them to reach the point of facing the
second death a lot sooner.

Your failure to see the illogical rationale of your theory sounds like another
chalk mark of the ostrich/sand phenomena. I guess that is all that can be said about that.

But on the matter of souls, those that meet their demise in their unrepentant
state will soon learn who it is that really loved them.

No, it is not. Lack of medical care, lack of education, lack of choices in careers - in simple terms poverty - are the main causes of AIDS worldwide.

Gay men didn't even originate AIDS. Take a look at this report from the BBC

No matter how hard the facts are manipulated the main cause of AIDS is still poverty. AIDS and homosexuality are not linked, worldwide, in a way that somehow shows any special condemnation of homosexuals.

I know that "AIDS=Homosexual Americans" theories presented by many fall apart when worldwide statistics are examined, which is exactly why I am posting them.

Another cause is the marginalization of a sub-group within a wider population. An example right in the USA is African American women. CDC

So my point, you see, is that the idea in the OP is easily disprovable. Even the wrongly-title "gay bowel syndrome" can occur to women giving birth! And it does happen often in some place. Some facts on fistula (the proper term) from the Fistula Foundation and also to women who participate in sodomy, often with their husbands.