• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Problems with Dan 9 decrees, and dates

483×360 (prophetic days year) =173,880 days
173,880÷365.2425 (Gregorian solar day year) =476.067 years
0.067×365.2425≈24.5 days. 476 years + 24.5 days.

Decree = 445 BC (modern Gregorian date) - 476 Gregorian years - 1 when going from BC to AD = 32 AD crucifixion. At most there is an allowance for 2 years + or - on that decree date which allows the crucifixion to take place between 30-34 AD. Ask chat GPT for the sources for that date in Nehemiah 2, and how much variation is allowed for it. Early Christians place the crucifixion between 30-33 AD, and same with astronomers.

The decree in Nehemiah 2 was given in the month of Nisan using Babylonian calendar. Here is what chat GPT told me about that
⭐ HOW NISAN WAS DETERMINED IN SUSA: Rule: Nisan 1 = the first visible crescent moon after the spring equinox (~March 20).
This means the earliest Nisan 1 can occur is around March 21, and the latest Nisan 1 can occur is around April 20.
This creates a 30-day possible range.
⭐ NISAN DATE WINDOW IN SUSA: ✔ Earliest possible Nisan 1: March 21–23 ✔ Typical Nisan 1: March 25 – April 10 ✔ Latest possible Nisan 1: April 18–20
These dates shift every year because: Lunar months average 29.53 days; The equinox can fall on March 20/21; Cloud cover can delay the first visible crescent; The Persian astronomer-priests looked for the moon, not barley.
⭐ WHY SUSA COULD NOT USE BARLEY FOR NISAN: Susa’s climate is hotter and earlier than Babylon and Israel.; Barley often ripened weeks earlier than in Judea.; Persian administrators needed one calendar across the empire.; The Babylonian system (moon-based) already existed and was mathematically precise.; So they adopted the Babylonian lunar months and names, including: Nisannu (Nisan), Ayyaru (Iyyar), Simanu (Sivan), …etc.; The Torah barley rule (aviv) did not apply in Persia.

So the decree goes out between 21st March, and April 20th. Abib/passover in the torah was barley ripening season which was spring March/April in Judea. Jesus is crucified in passover in one of these months. The latest barely ripening can occur in Judea is 20th April. If the decree went out 21st March then over 483 years have to add another 25 days end up April 15th as the crucifixion date with 20th April being the latest. Then there is mention of preparation for sabbath (saturday) so can probably be more precise than that.

Upvote 0

fears over Islam often a political maneuver against migrants, says Pope

However, he cautioned that oftentimes these fears are “generated by people who are against immigration and trying to keep out people who may be from another country, another religion, another race.”

This statement he made... He's lumping things together that shouldn't be categorized the same.

One of these things is not like the others.

Two are circumstances of birth, one is an ideological choice.

Countries should absolutely have a right to be discriminating when it comes voluntarily ideologies with regards to who they let in.


People can't control which country they were born in, or which race they are...but people can certainly choose which ideologies they subscribe to.

Trying to lump Islam in with "Of Arab descent" has always been a dishonest ploy.

It'd be like equating "This guy is sympathetic to the IRA, he's not a good fit here" to "Racism against Irish people"
Upvote 0

what is Calvinism answer to how God works?

No, synergistic theologies don't hold a "lofty view of man", they simply don't denigrate man and deny that we are made in God's image. An image that was marred in the fall, but not destroyed.
I never said or even suggested man made in God's image was destroyed. I also hold to an image that is marred, but I will also add that fallen man postlapsarian is Totally Depraved. Now interesting enough Arminius also believe this as well. But other Synergistic theologies do not. Which my friend is a lofty view of fallen man.

Do you believe that Adam needed Donum Superadditum prelapsarian?


The options are not Arminianism or Calvinism, that false dichotomy is bound to lead to error.
I never said these are the only options. There are obviously a lot more false heresies than just Arminianism.
There is no saving ourselves, as the "decision" is an act of surrender to God's pursuit, not a seeking of God. Monergists seem to have a place for everything in their theology except themselves, the sin belongs to Adam and the faith belongs to God. No place for the monergist, none at all.
Well friend, either we are under a curse of sin or not. Either we are exiled or not. Either we can save ourselves or not. Either we are dead in sin or not. There is no third category as synergists suggest between life and death somewhere in limbo (Prevenient Grace). This friend is a man-made heresy. Like, "you will not surely die", one suggested.​



No one said it was.
Good! But the Synergists say otherwise. Sometimes you have to take the time and read the fine print.

Hallelujah and amen. But again, that's not relevant to the question at hand.
It is the crux of it!

Salvation is certainly a gift, but gifts must be received. According to you, God not only gives the gift but also receives it, so what part do you have in your salvation?
Gift means it's given freely to whom ever he wills because it is not earned nor can be because we are fallen. The only thing I contribute is sin, I have nothing else. Which it is why God also gives us renewed minds to understand him and new hearts to believe him.

This is why Jesus says he came to heal the sick. He will make the lame walk, the blind see, the deaf hear, and the dead rise! It's His doing friend which is why we must be humbled, because we receive it with empty hands not by God owing us anything by what we do or will do.​


yeah, and the options are not Arminianism or Calvinism. There are more worlds than these, ladodgers6
Upvote 0

The Seven Mountains Mandate or Dominionism?

Yes, it's just total anarchy.

Bob asks for one thing with total faith and Suzy asks for the opposite with total faith.

All the prayers cancel each other out, what can you do?

half joking because it involves speak-it-into-existence folks.
If I misunderstood the OP, I apologise. However, it does contain these words:

"It holds that there are seven aspects of society that believers seek to dominate: family, religion, education, media, arts and entertainment, business, and government."

That seemed to be saying that Christian believes are to dominate those 7 aspects of life. If my understanding of the OP is wrong, then sorry for wasting your time. I didn't do so diliberately.
I would say that Christians are to influence (not dominate) these spheres. I reject Dominionism in the usual sense of the word, but I believe that Christians are to pray for the spheres. I believe that this should be done by small groups of Christians gathered together for the purpose of listening in silence for a word from God as to what to pray, who to pray for, and maybe some specific activity to take. However, before a word is accepted, all members of the group must be inwardly convinced that it is truly from God (Mat.18:19-20).
I appeal to all reading this to prayerfully consider forming such listening prayer groups specifically for the spheres of influence. You may also like to start a discussion on listeningprayer@groups.io
Upvote 0

What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

Where are you finding in scripture: "John's water immersion was an immersion of repentance, meaning it was symbolic of the Spiritual immersion/born"? John's baptism was a covenant action to show a commitment to accepting God's forgiveness and turning your life around.

How do you show: Immersion in water is always symbolic of the Holy Spirit, since the Jew immersed ceremonially in many ways?

These are basic NT understandings,.... why don't you understand them?
Upvote 0

Please help to ignite the Great Re-Awakening in Europe

We haven't been to Mykonos but we were on Lefkada earlier this year, it's one of the mid-sized Greek islands off to the west, Ionian Sea I believe. It was an majestic experience, particularly for mission groups. A sizeable number of beautiful and inspirational churches and deep tradition. I'm having one of those days and can't quite recall the name, but there was one church in the particular that was extraordinary and stayed with us. From the Byzantine architects, a redoubtable design and beautiful frescoes within it. Reminded us of some of the churches on the French Mediterranean coast. Even without the icons, but the architecture on the coast seems it was similarly inspired.
You may be thinking of the Lefkada Church of Panagia Hodegetria (Παναγία Οδηγήτρια)? It's a very old church in an old village, but yes incredible and moving frescoes, though most moved to an institution in Athens as I recall.
Upvote 0

Is there a Christian political philosophy?

So, I want to explore political philosophy and how it relates to Christianity.

Ideally, our faith should inform our politics, but not the other way around. Yet, this unfortunately not the case in reality. I don't intend to turn this into a finger pointing game between the left and the right, I just want to explore options here.

Should the government enact policies that reflect Christian policies?

One could argue yes, since a Christian government could provide a moral foundation for an otherwise secular society and arguably improves everyone's lives. On the other hand, one can say that the government would just bastardize Christianity and use it as a weapon for social control.

What about libertarianism? The Bible says to help the poor and needy. Yet, does that mean we should petition the government to do it, or is charity a personal responsibility for us as Christians, and thus we should not outsource it to the state?

Should there be a government? There are verses that seem to advocate for submitting to earthly authorities. Then again, many of these earthly authorities have, and sometimes still do, put innocent people to death. It can also be argued that the government has a monopoly on force and violence.

What are your thoughts?

I'm personally undecided, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what others think to help me find out where I stand.

Christian politics is, that 12,000 from each tribe of Israel will rule together with Christ. You can take that as a literal or figurative number, but the point is they are from one bloodline. This is non-negotiable. If you want to find out what bloodline it is, I guess you have to do some more reading and praying.
Upvote 0

What would have happened to Adam and Eve and Cain after death?

I appreciate you telling me that, thanks.

Thanks for trying.
That was a great effort, and you did well - far better than Copilot, because you saw that these are not examples that will stand up, but actual people. This is why intelligent minds are better than AI.
You are correct. That is exactly what these texts are saying. Quite simply

The next step is to find out if this judgment is a day where people will line up before a throne, and sentence be read, after which, wrongdoers are punished.
I think you already recognize that cannot be the case, since the Queen of Sheba is spoken of in a positive way, as well as the Ninevites. In fact, even those in Sodom and Gomorrah, where that city and all in it were destroyed for gross sin, are all said to stand up "with this generation, and condemn it".

So then, how long is the judgment day?
Please read Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 20:4-6
Here, we see that Jesus judges with those chosen to rule with him for the thousand years, when the Devil is bound, so that he does not mislead the nations until the thousand years are ended. Revelation 20:1-4

Judgement day is a period of 1,000 years where all who return... actual people who lived in the land of Sodom and Gomorrah, Nineveh, Tyre and Sidon, .... the entire globe of unrighteous people, will be raised to, what Jesus calls, a resurrection of judgment. John 5:28, 29
What does this involve?

Revelation 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and [h]books were opened; and another [i]book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the [j]books, according to their deeds.

Of course, physically dead people cannot stand, so this scripture evidently refers to spiritually dead.
So, we can conclude that these are the same unrighteous people, that are raised to a resurrection of judgment.
The verse says these dead ones are judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
The Bible does not say what these books are, but they are judged according to their deeds.
Since the judgment is 1,000 years their deeds would correspond with that period, and those books.

The next verse tells us they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds, and if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life [the other book that was opened], he was thrown into the lake of fire... which means the second death. Revelation 20:13-15
That means, obviously, their deeds during the 1,000 years did not lead to righteousness.

So, after the 1,000 years, when Satan is loosed, and goes out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, he gathers together a great number of them that is like the sand of the seashore. Revelation 20:7, 8
Their final outcome is the second death.
However, they were given an opportunity to learn righteousness and practice it.

The answer then, to your query regarding God's mercy for people in the Old Testament. Yes. Not only is it reasonable, it's scriptural, that God remembers unrighteous people who died before having the opportunity to put faith in Jesus Christ, and will resurrect these ones to life, so that they can learn the truth, and live by righteous deeds... if they so desire. Acts 24:15
Those spiritually dead ones who practice righteousness, will come to life spiritually, after the 1,000 years. Revelation 20:5
Corey, my understanding of the thousand year judgement of Rev. 20, is a literal thousand years in which the living saints at the time of Christ return and those resurrected in the first resurrection (believers of all ages past) will set with Christ in heaven during this sentencing portion of Christ’s judgment of the lost. The saints will examine each lost individuals book of deeds to determine the amount of restitution that each sinner must atone for in Hell before they experience the second death.

The earth is void during this time, as all the lost are slain by the sword (command) that comes out of the mouth of the, Faithful and True [Christ] Rev. 19. The lost of all ages are resurrected in the second resurrection at the end of the thousand years, Revelation 20:5. Satin and his angels too, are released from the spirit realm again and gather the lost to destroy New Jerusalem, the camp of God’s people, the city He loves, (Rev. 20:7-9) which has come down from heaven.

Jesus commands a halt to Satan and the fallen before their assault on the city, for the Great White Throne Judgement is to take place. Here at this time all who have ever had life will be in attendance. The saints inside of New Jerusalem and the lost outside. The saints will have just witnessed that even when the wicked see New Jerusalem in it’s splendid glory before their very eyes, they still will not repent and honor God, but were willing to follow Satin and destroy God and His people. Their actions prove God was correct in judging them as unrepentant.

At this time also God wants the lost to understand why He could not save them, thus each individual is show their book of deeds that had been recorded during their lifetime, out of which Christ Judge them. After this reveal, every knee will bow before Christ our creator. The wicked because His justice was true, and the saints because of His mercy to save them by faith, knowing their unworthiness.

Then follows the fires of hell falling from heaven which devours the wicked, according to the restitution that each must pay before eternal death (the wages of sin) claims their life. Thus sin is no more, and Christ creates the new heaven and earth, and the saints witness it all, and receive it as their inheritance, because of their faith in Christ.
Upvote 0

The New Testament begins in Acts not Matthew chapter one.

Yes, they are in Heaven.

Before the cross John 3:13-15. That Psalm passage in post #21 was the wrong one. I fixed it. It said Psalm 16:19, but I meant Psalm 16:10-11. That was to show that what was called Sheol in the OT, is called Hades in the NT.
And John. 3:13 SAY that no one has ASCENDED. IN. HEAVEN ,( BUT // ME. , IS A DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE. ). means

NEVERRRRR has ascended to HEAVEN. but he that came down. FROM HEAVEN !!

So where does anyone go after DEATH ??

And I do have answer and shown just where the lost go after . death and. where those saved go after dying !!

dan p
Upvote 0

The Open Cafe - a thread for everyone to post in. (2) [OPEN]

*Takes a sip of magic tea* May God bless you even if it may seem as though satan has gotten an advantage or is worth believing. For God will send someone to help you whether it be the Holy Spirit, or angels, or a person to remind you that you're being helped by these beings.
Upvote 0

Refuting Losing Salvation!

It's ok of course but we just differ in our understanding concerning the Law and the OT. God bless!
Almost all the verses I quoted of the Law of God including the original Text James2:11 is NT.

As God’s Testimonies are sure. Psa19:7 Exo31:18 Deut4:13, heaven and earth will pass, but not God’s word which He uses interchangeably with His commandments.

Mat 25:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away..

Mat5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 15:3 And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ From the Ten Commandments
Mat 15:6 he is not to honor his father or mother.’ And by this you have invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.


Mat 7:13 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

Which commandment?
‘Honor your father and your mother’ (from the Ten Exo20:12 Deut4:13)

13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”


The entire Bible is about the testimony of God through His prophets and apostles. John5:39 and which one of these have a greater testimony than God Himself? Exo31:18 Deut4:13 Heb8:10 2Cor3:3, not one.

God bless!
Upvote 0

A Tree and Its Fruit - Sermon on the Mount Series - Devotional Saturday

I'm back with another Sermon on the Mount Series, and this time we'll look at what Jesus says about knowing a tree by its fruit! And... the most scariest words He spoke...​

Thanks for including the info on the "Christmas Groove". :blush::evergreen:

I found a link to the livestream event ...
will be watching tonite at 7pm!


Upvote 0

Churches failing to preach about sin is a 'bodyblow' as many Christians reject basic teachings: Barna

1 John should be required reading.
I agree. Every believer sins. But every believer does not walk in sin. Scripture teaches us that we all commit sins and it teaches us that we should not walk in sin, or continue in sin. Christians should walk in continual repentance. Which does not mean walking around in sackloth and ashes. It means always recognizing when we fail asking for forgiveness and then changing our life with the power of the Holy Spirit and not make excuses to continue in the practice.
Upvote 0

Release International prayers for Iran and the Philippines.

06 December 2025 – Iran​

ir.svg

Pray for God’s blessing on two Christian converts who fled Iran after each being sentenced to 12 years in prison on charges related to the possession of multiple copies of the Bible. Mehdi Rahimi, aged 49, and Kia Nourinia, 55, were sentenced in April after raids by intelligence officers on their homes in Tabriz.

05 December 2025 – Iran​

ir.svg

Children in Iran are indoctrinated by state propaganda and hatred in school from a young age. Pray for those growing up in Christian homes who hear such contrasting views from their parents and teachers, and for whom saying the wrong word in class could lead to their parents’ arrest.

04 December 2025 – Iran​

ir.svg

Our partner asks for prayer for its team in Turkey and for those Iranian Christians there who face threats of deportation, regular harassment from local authorities and discrimination in their schools and workplaces. May God soften the hearts of those who are mistreating them.

03 December 2025 – Iran​

ir.svg

Pray for the training events run by our partners in neighbouring countries to equip and encourage the leaders of Iran’s house church movement. Without the infrastructure of established churches, these networks and their leaders need regular training and opportunities to meet safely.

02 December 2025 – Iran​

ir.svg

Give thanks for the impact of multiple media ministries that transmit the gospel into people’s homes, bypassing government attempts to repress Christianity. Pray for those working to translate the Jesus film, The Chosen and other evangelistic material into Iran’s many indigenous languages.

01 December 2025 – Iran​

ir.svg

Pray for Christian Mehran Shamloui, aged 37, who was arrested on his arrival in Iran after being deported from Turkey in July. Mehran had been sentenced to a total of ten years in prison following his arrest in Tehran in November 2024. In connected raids on homes, two other Christians, Abbas Soori (48) and expectant […]

30 November 2025 – Philippines​

ph.svg

Praise God for the church denominations that are supporting workers in dangerous locations and are prepared to adopt new methods of evangelism and church planting that are sensitive to the local culture.


For email prayer alerts: info@releaseinternational.org

Trump Says US Will Permanently Pause Migration From 'Third World Countries'

Still more likely to be your uncle or cousins.
This newspaper article says that in the city of Glasgow 1200 females have been treated for Female Genital Mutilation. There may be an issue of some kind there.



:(
Upvote 0

Prayers for my sister in law

Please pray for her peace and strength of mind. She is getting where she is not sleeping and is in the midst of trying to adjust to some new meds. She keeps thinking in loops and is obsessively worried about everything. Usually when she gets like this she ends up in the hospital. Please pray for her peace and strength of mind where she can get through this without the hospital stay. :praying:

Thank you!

88-year-old Army veteran working at grocery store receives over $1.7M in donations after viral video

Australian influencer Sam Weidenhofer tracked down Ed Bambas at Michigan supermarket​


More than $1.7 million has been raised to help an Army veteran retire after his story went viral online and a GoFundMe drew thousands of donations from strangers.

Australian social media influencer Sam Weidenhofer first learned about Edmund Bambas, 88, from a comment on one of his videos. Weidenhofer then worked with influencer Mike McKinstry to track the veteran down at the Meijer supermarket in Brighton, Michigan, where he works, WXYZ Detroit reported.

"May I ask how old you are?" Weidenhofer asks in the video.

"I'm 88 years old," Bambas responded.

“Why do you have to keep working?" Weidenhofer asks.

Bambas, who served in the U.S. Army in 1966, explained that he retired from General Motors in 1999, but everything changed when the automaker filed for bankruptcy years later.

“ I retired from General Motors in [1999]," Bambas says. "In 2012, they went bankrupt, and they took my pension away from me."

The veteran said his financial situation worsened when his wife became seriously ill.

"The thing that hurt me the most was my wife was real sick, and when they took the pension, they also took the health care coverage and all but $10,000 of my life insurance," Bambas said, "So, I sold the house, sold the property I had and we made it through."

Continued below.
  • Informative
Reactions: Pioneer3mm

Exclusive: The White House is looking to replace Pete Hegseth as defense secretary

Well, if there’s an official looking plaque on a wall then it must be official.

Wait… what’s that? It’s not officially called the Department of War?


Glad we could clear that up!

Secretary Hegseth is just using his preferred pronouns.
Upvote 0

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,879,339
Messages
65,432,318
Members
276,435
Latest member
dazzyboy66