Is there something in the text here that references Daniel 2? I'm more interested in how John merges bits of the other beasts into one uber-beast. It's saying Rome is more powerful than all the previous empires. But it's also very universal in appeal - as in - this is Rome - but it could be any government that threatens God's people.
The ten horns are the ten toes. The connection between Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 is explicit. Revelation 13 references it directly. Daniel 7 shows that the ten horns would come after the fourth beast. The fourth beast was the Roman Republic (W). It became the Roman Empire when it conquered Egypt (S), Anatolia (N), and Syria (E). In this way, the ten horns are an empire stretching over the entire world.
You sound like a reasonable person committed to reading God's word in context, and with reference to sensible theology. (And not just playing subjective "pin-the-tail-on-the-anti-Christ" like others here.)
I appreciate that! I'd rather not look outside the context of the original audience. Unfortunately, silence is rare in my life. If I can read it instead of watching it, it would be easier to flex to those rare moments.
Absolutely. Wasn't there a new tribune installed at some point, and people required to turn up and swear allegiance?
There was. It began in 250 with the Decian Persecution, but it wasn't specifically targeted at Christians like the Diocletian Persecution was in 303. Speaking of the Diocletian Persecution, it should have been called the Galerian Persecution because Galerius was the main antagonist. Diocletian set up a tetrarchy in attempt to stabilize the Roman Empire after the Crises of the Third Century. The Roman Empire was split into East and West, with each having its own Augustus and its own Caesar. The Eastern Empire, with its capital in the Pontic city of Nicomedia, leaned heavily into the imperial cult as a means to restore Roman esprit de corps. Like the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11, the Christians were blamed for the prior crises and were persecuted. The Oracle of Apollo at Didyma told Diocletian that she could not give oracles from Apollo because "the just upon the earth" hindered his prophecies. Galerius insisted persecuting the Christians would enable the oracle to hear Apollos prophecies again. Since imperial cult was so strong in Anatolia, the Eastern Empire was ground zero for Roman Tribune. The Eastern Empire was, as Revelation 13 called it, the beast from the earth. To your original question, the tribune was the image of the beast having a statue of Diocletian presented before the herald.
Across 2000 years? I'm not sure causation is demonstrated - but history certainly rhymes now and then.
This lends itself to the pattern.
Hmmm - I'm not sure I've seen that as a pattern. The people I read seem to see Revelation as covering a multitude of themes, not necessarily linked in that way? Could you just add the chapters where you see this pattern emerging?
This is probably the best conversation I have had on this topic. Thanks!
All themes are encompassed in Revelation 1 and 22. These are the
inclusio, a parenthetical bracket around all the text within. Revelation 1:6 shows us who the Two Witnesses are. Like Joshua the High Priest and Zerubabbel the governor in Zechariah 4, Christ's blood has made us to be priests and a kingdom. They were called out of Babylon (Zech 2:6, Rev 18:4), the worldly attempt to serve two masters. By keeping the testimony of Jesus and obeying His commands (Rev 1:2, Rev 12:17), they build the Church under constant peril by the enemy, just like when the Edomites assaulted the Jews when they rebuilt Jerusalem's wall in the days of Nehemiah. The lamp stands, fueled by God's Spirit (Rev 1:10, 4:5), continue that mission until Christ returns and every eye sees Him (Rev 1:7, Rev 19:11-18). You can find these themes repeated multiple times throughout Revelation. I think they get missed often because of the mysteries presented in the book that are intended to get the believers to look introspectively and ask themselves who they most identify with. That
revelation shows us which message to seven churches in Asia Minor we as a universal church must adhere to. I would definitely like to discuss this further.
Cheers, good chatting with you
Likewise!