DreamyLaLa said:

Yeah, I just wish I knew where to find people who share these values with me. I appreciate your thoughts, though.

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Don't be discouraged.
It's just a trial.

Strong in Him said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you are rejecting anything.
I like a lot of your posts.

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All good - that last post was just for fun.
Keras and I go way back.
I can attest that he is a gospel-hearted guy when it comes down to the essential stuff.
( He's just got this big 'twist' in his eschatology - and a certain manner in explaining it to everyone. )

Clarifying then - is Rev 12:11 referring to all believers or only those martyred?

Your comment that the PCI went through similar financial problems was unexpected.

Hans Blaster said:

If Trump is nearby, that is important too.

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And considering Rubio as well, it's doubly important! There seems to be some issues following age limits.

Always in His Presence said:

Simple AI search

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How many of your ‘examples’ of Trump being pro-life are actually him claiming to be pro-life and nothing else?

It’s like all these ‘peace deals’ he claims to have brokered; which one’s are actual real deals and not just empty words.

ViaCrucis said:

There's nothing Norse about the origins of Christmas trees.

Christmas trees started in Germany, probably sometime in the 15th century and were popularized by German Lutherans later on. German immigrants then took the Christmas tree tradition with them--which is how it arrived in America. And like all things in America, we made it bigger and flashier.

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There's a passage in Tacitus about the Germans revering trees, this would be referring to 9AD. The Druids also decorated trees and put up Miseltoe, in the centuries BC. Ancient Pagan customs.

keras said:

The glorious Return of Jesus will not be a surprise to anyone with a Bible, as it will come exactly 1260 days after the 'beast' desecrates the Temple.

It will be the soon to happen, sudden and shocking Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath, that comes 'like a thief'. Some years before Jesus Returns, as set out in Revelation.

The support for Gods people going to live in all of the Holy Land is;
1/ That area is special to God; Deuteronomy 11:11-12
2/ It was Promised to Abrahams descendants, who are now every faithful believer in God and Jesus. Galatians 3:26-29
3/ We Christians are the Holy peoples of God and Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:7 say we are present in Jerusalem during the period of Satanic world control.

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Again, that’s your interpretation, but 2 Peter 1:20 devalues that. I think it not unreasonable in light of 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2:37, etc, to request some Patristic context beyond merely asserting scripture says X (which is debateable; you’ve presented a subjective interpretation of prophetic texts rendered even more problematic by your claim that the New Testament assertion, in inspired Scripture, that Christ our True God will return “like a thief in the night” is wrong and even “disgusting” - despite being stated not only in the Pauline epistles but in canonical Gospel verses like Matthew 24:43, and indeed Revelation 16:15.

The problem here is that you seem to be not only cherry picking verses to interpret literally, but even which verses are sound and which ones are “disgusting” which is why I ask for clarification, since right now, it seems like you’re asking us to believe a doctrine not taught by any extant church because of a private revelation, even contra scriptura.

Between 2016 and 2019, reporters including Preya Samsundar at Minnesota’s Alpha News and David Steinberg at PJ Media also added a trove of information supporting the proposition that Omar had married her brother in 2009. In 2019, I published Steinberg’s illustrated summary, "Tying up loose threads in the curious case," on Power Line.
It lays out in meticulous detail what several Somali sources relayed both to him and to me, as well as social media posts that make it clear Elmi is Omar’s brother. Omar entered the United States in 1995 as a fraudulent member of the Omar family, which was granted asylum in the United States and settled in Arlington, Va., along with her sister Sahra and her father Nur Said. The rest of Omar’s genetic family, the Elmi family—a sister, Leila, and Mohamed and Ahmed—was granted asylum in the United Kingdom.
Social media posts throughout the years show Omar and her siblings in both the United States and the United Kingdom referring to each other, and to their father, as such. It is not difficult to track.

Aryeh Jay said:

So much for the dietary laws, mixed fiber clothes, and gathering sticks on Saturdays being "nailed to the cross".

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If you don't understand the word of God you should ask rather than show that you don't.

I would be happy to have this discussion with you if that is what you really want.

ViaCrucis said:

You are literally repeating 19th century talking points bigots used to argue why Catholics, Jews, the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, etc don't belong in America.

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I've only repeated truth that has been going on for many centuries and are demonstrable facts. Facts that continue TODAY among the Islamist belief systems that have been and still are functioning in rhe world around us TODAY.

ViaCrucis said:

haven't even touched on the simple fact that millions of Muslim Americans live their lives here fully experiencing this country and its freedoms. That alone proves you're not only hateful, but just wrong.

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Are you just ignoring things on purpose? I think you are. Because I have said exactly what you just did. But you just ignored that.

I most certainly am not wrong about Islamists. They are the most dangerous groups in the world today. And they have been coming to the west in droves trying to alter our societies.

Denmark finally work up to the situation and others are starting to.

BobRyan said:

Sadly all the Confessions of Faith of major Christian groups claim you are wrong.

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BobRyan said:

so then if the dictionary and history of the NT church is correct?

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BobRyan said:

yep. Hence all the confessions of faith addressing that very point and even the definition for antinomianism pointing to the TEN Commandments

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BobRyan said:

It is probably a bit uncomfortable if one is used to posting in opposition to the Ten Commandments, given how the definition for antinomianism reads.

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church history supports a position that you ultimately reject. which is changing the Sabbath to Sunday. maintaining Sabbath on the 7th day is simply not a popular held view throughout the history of the church. if you wish to use church history as your model it is coupling two values of gathering on the 1st day and the sabbath. more recent views like that of SDA have shifted this coupling to the 7th day but the gathering part for worship is not the quintessential value of the day according to the letter of the law. SDA will find scripture to endorse their positions but refuse to accept that fundamentally their starting point was adopting main stream Christian Sunday values and shifting them to the 7th over adopting biblical values. essentially what you get is a Sunday-worship-version on the 7th day. these values don't have to compete with each other, and that's not what I'm saying, but SDA doctrinal positions are clearly influenced are cultural trends to set the values of the day and loosely biblical values.

BobRyan said:

Until you read Heb 10 where "He takes away the first to establish the second" vs 4-10 where it is explicitly speaking of "animal sacrifice and offerings" all the while "The Commandments of God" are strongly affirmed in 1 Cor 7:19 where "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1 in that still valid unit of TEN

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a comprehensive study of a Hebrew will show that it does not flatten law in the sense of one aspect is done away with (like the sacrafice) every aspect is done away with. this can lead to some contrasting claims on how we categorize these laws. but the 10 commandments are not an endorsed category that stands alone and there certainly is no label on the 10 commandments calling it "God's Moral Law" all of which are biblical injection. there are moral and monthesitic claims that reaffirm their counterparts in the 10 but the 4th is not one them. it instead speaks of Sabbath as something beyond a human requirement of physical rest but a rest found in God. it's claim is beyond external keeping of the law and reframing it to entering God's rest. it's reference of Sabbath is not of a physical day, but of a mode or state of rest coupling ideas of God's completed work ushering in this rest like that of creation. the reframing shifts the focus to God's action over shaping the new covenant over our actions where the quintessential moment is now, not a specific day.

BobRyan said:

No wonder the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19, and the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19 , and D.L. Moody's sermon on the Ten Commandments, and R.C. Sproul, and C.H. Spurgeon affirm the TEN as included in the moral law of God

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You mean they affirm that Sunday is the Sabbath? I'm not an advocate for that, but it would seem a counterpoint to your argument, yet you copy and paste it like a mic drop. your list affirms X and Y, you reject X and affirm Y but don't see this as a conflict. if they are right about Y (which you both agree) doesn't this add to the credibility of their claim of coupling it with X? or if they are wrong about X doesn't this question the credibility of the claim made on Y? But your not interested in critically approaching this, you only take what you want and throw out the rest which shows a highly biased view.

BCP1928 said:

You know I was just teasing, right? Because you hypothetical fantasies are ridiculous.

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They are not ridiculous. They would be if that isnt happening. But it is so, answer the questions. I think you know that, but don't really want to answer them. Its much easier to just call them ridiculous rather than deal with reality.

BCP1928 said:

How do you know he has assimilated? Has he renounced the Muslim faith? Stopped celebrating Somali holidays? Muslim holidays? Does he still speak Somali with his family and friends? Still he is Somalian and if he came here originally as a refugee or an asylum seeker then his citizenship is regarded by MAGA as illegal and will likely be revoked, because Somalians are "garbage."

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Oh good grief. What kind of nonsense are you talking about. Who on earth said anyone has to renounce their Muslim faith. All your questions do is show your lack of an ability to actually listen.

Factotum said:

Yes, I already know. You appreciated how law enforcement PECULIARLY handled a mental health crisis instead of cops allowing MCL 333.20967 (Emergency Patient Management) to be applied. I bet Sherrone Moore would appreciate your peculiar way of enforcing laws.

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This was not a situation that mental health professionals could respond to without law enforcement

1Tonne said:

Gehenna was literally a valley outside Jerusalem (Valley of Hinnom) where trash and bodies were burned, and in Jesus’ time, it was used as a vivid image of judgment.

If taken literally, worms cannot survive fire. That’s why Jesus’ language is clearly figurative: the “worm that does not die” symbolizes ongoing conscious suffering and contempt, not actual insects feeding in flames. Literal worms wouldn’t persist in a burning rubbish dump; the imagery is meant to convey the unending consequence for the wicked, not real worms. And we see in Psalm 22:6 and Isaiah. 66:24 how the word "worm" was used back in the this time. It was used as a way of showing disgust upon a person.

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Yes, I know that. I posted that exact thing earlier in the thread. There was a constantly burning fire where trash would be constantly added to it keeping it burning. Within the refuse pile, the trash to be added, there were worms eating the trash. The judgement described was a comparison of that. Some of the worms would die and get burned up when new trash was added to the fire but there were a constant crop of new worms. Trash and refuse was completely consumed with in these burning hot fire pits. Sulfur was also added to these pits to keep them burning hot. Even earlier, child sacrifice was performed there (2 Chronicles). The worm here and the worm in Psalms are within 2 different contexts...which you incorrectly conflate together.

Paleouss said:

Greetings to you Valletta, hope and peace to you in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for your sourcing. You were correct in your post regarding the Septuagint, my apologies for my mistake. I suppose it is a good lesson for me to not rush around and take my time. I clearly was mistaking, for some reason, the NT when I wrote about the Septuagint. But again, thank you for you r sources.

Peace to you brother

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Peace. I've had misconceptions plenty of times and have learned a lot from discussions in these forums.

Belk said:

From what I recall, it is about the same in levels of harm, the issue is that pot smokers hold the smoke in their lungs longer. This is more damaging. However when you measure that against the fewer number of hits (or drags) taken the overall effect is less.

(ex smoker of both so it was of interest to me)

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As a former citizen of Washington State, I'm shocked, appalled, and disgusted to learn that you once smoked cigarettes. Good day Sir!

Just because we make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ with our lips, it does not mean that we are saved from our sins, and that we have eternal life with God. For Jesus taught that to come to him in faith we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin and to self) and follow him in obedience to his commands. And the Scriptures teach that if sin is what we practice, and not obedience to God, and if we do not repent of sin and obey God, that we don’t know God, and we do not have eternal life with God.

Whether or not we make verbal confessions of Christ as Lord, we cannot live in deliberate and habitual sin against God, making sin our practice, and not obedience to the Lord, and then claim, “We didn’t know.” For it is made very clear to us here in Romans 1 that God has revealed himself to all humankind through his created works so that we are all without excuse if we choose our sinful practices over God. For the wrath of God is against all ungodliness of humans who suppress the truth about God in unrighteousness.

Now, we cannot know God intimately, in a sense of being in a relationship with him, unless we, by faith in him, have died with him to sin and we are now walking in obedience to his commands. And this is not saying that we will never sin again (1 John 2:1-6), but that sin should no longer be our practice, our habit, and what we keep returning to over again willfully and deliberately because we want the sin more than we want to be in a relationship with God. But we are all aware of God and who he is.

So, according to this Scripture, all who choose to walk in sin, and to live sinful lifestyles, do not do so in total ignorance, thinking that what they are doing is right and good, and not evil. Now they may make excuses for their sinful lifestyles, and for their wrong choices, but it is not out of complete ignorance of right from wrong. It is out of a choice to ignore what they know about God, to not honor him for who he is, and a choice to exchange what they know about God so as to follow after the gods of this world, instead.

And this includes many people who profess faith in Jesus Christ with their lips, but whose hearts are far from God, for they are still living according to the flesh, doing what their flesh desires, and their lives are not surrendered to God to doing his will. Sin still has control over their lives, and not God, so they still choose their sins over God on a habitual basis. And for many of them, it appears, their predominant sins are sexually immoral in nature, particularly related to porn addiction and to what all else that entails.

Therefore, God gives them over to the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. So, they end up doing what is dishonorable, improper, immoral, wicked, and dishonest. And so they end up getting involved in extramarital affairs, some of which may be of a homosexual nature, and/or they become addicted to pornography of many kinds with all sorts of distortions of what is considered normal. And so they become filled with all wickedness, even knowing it means death, not life.

And sadly, so much of what is taught today as “the gospel of Christ” is not of Christ Jesus at all, but that which comes straight from the heart of Satan. For so many are teaching that all that God requires is that we make a verbal confession of him as Lord, and we believe in his death and resurrection, and now salvation from sin and eternal life with God are guaranteed us, but regardless of how we live. And so many people are being given liberty to keep on in sin and are convinced they don’t have to obey God’s commands.

But Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

So, please take this to heart. Faith in Jesus Christ is not liberty to live however we want in disobedience to our Lord and to his commands. If sin is what we practice, and not obedience to God, we will not see God.

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

For Our Nation

An Original Work / September 11, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Recording Via Gerry Peters, music producer and arranger

Bombs are bursting. Night is falling.
Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.
Trust Him with your life today.
Make Him your Lord and your Savior.
Turn from your sin. Follow Jesus.
He will forgive you of your sin;
Cleanse your heart, made new within.

Men betraying: Our trust fraying.
On our knees to God we’re praying,
Seeking God to give us answers
That are only found in Him.
God is sovereign over all things.
Nothing from His mind escaping.
He has all things under His command,
And will work all for good.

Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.

Men deceiving: We’re believing
In our Lord, and interceding
For our nation and its people
To obey their God today.
He is our hope for our future.
For our wounds He offers suture.
He is all we need for this life.
Trust Him with your life today.

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Their Foolish Hearts
An Original Work / December 17, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

I think the hatred stems with how money is distributed.

And then the increasing financial pressures across the globe concerning debt.

And it just so happens that Jews have their finger on money, debt, and many things concerning finance.


People are starting to hate money, capitalism, and all it stands for and it just so happens that Jews have a big hand in this.

Even the Bible says that the Jews will be punished for turning their back on God and for the obvious reason - making a false god out of money and their love of money have caused much evil due to their huge influence on money.


THe love of money is the root of all evil. Things are happening not because people are possessed or some conspiracy against the Jews. It's plainly visible for all to see.


It is prophesied that the devoutly religious will take evil for good and good for evil.

concretecamper said:

Mary knew exactly what she was signing up for when she said "YES".

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Hello
What makes you speak so affirmatively, please ?

That’s right, you got it it. They are Gods people and this makes them acceptable. They are so often brilliant and you should know. Those in the church that say otherwise should watch there step and not judge because many disagree so err on the side of caution be cause you are surely wrong. God is not done with Israel.

Don’t worry about showing emotions. Don’t be fearful. Isa 41:10, Isa 26:3-10. My panic comes for no reason. I get over loaded easily, but I face it and don’t let it have its way. So I fight it, because it’s not Gods way of love , peace, contentment, joy. It shortens its stay. I take it captive 2Cor 10:3-5. The Bible is the best way to fight it because you know your right, ya know. Jesus Loves You. Correct yourself to the truth.

i forgive you do not be afraid the Lord has your back.

Certainly! Let's dive deeper into each step of tracing the history of a manuscript, from identification and analysis to the final stages of reception and the modern tools used in manuscript studies.

1. Identification and Classification of a Manuscript​

Paleography (The study of ancient handwriting)​

• What is it? Paleography is the study of ancient scripts and handwriting styles. By examining the writing itself, scholars can make educated guesses about when and where the manuscript was produced.
• How it's done:
  • Scholars examine the style of writing (e.g., uncial, minuscule, cursive).
  • Different periods in history had distinct handwriting styles, so a certain script (e.g., Codex Sinaiticus uses a particular style) can help date a manuscript to a specific time.
  • Regional characteristics of scripts also give insight into where the manuscript might have been produced (e.g., Greek minuscule script used widely in the Byzantine era).
• Example: The Codex Sinaiticus (4th century) is written in uncial script, which was common in the early centuries of Christianity.

Codicology (The study of manuscripts as physical objects)​

• What is it? Codicology examines the physical characteristics of a manuscript: the materials used, its format, the binding, the number of pages, and other physical aspects.
• How it's done:
  • Materials: Scholars check whether the manuscript is made of papyrus, parchment, or paper, which can help date the manuscript. For instance, papyrus was used primarily in Egypt before the 4th century, while parchment became more common in the medieval period.
  • Layout: Codicologists look at how the text is arranged: is it a scroll (older form), or a codex (a bound book, which became the preferred format in the 4th century)?
  • Condition and Repair: How well-preserved is the manuscript? Signs of wear and tear or repairs can indicate the manuscript’s age and its continued use over time.
  • Signatures and Quiring: Examining how pages were folded or grouped together (called "quires") can tell scholars how the manuscript was copied and assembled.

Textual Elements (Analysis of the content)​

• What is it? This refers to looking at the specific content of the manuscript—its language, style, content variations, and any unique features.
• How it's done:
  • Textual variants: Manuscripts can contain unique readings or marginal annotations that may differ from other versions of the same text. These variations can provide important clues about the evolution of the text.
  • Language: The language of the manuscript, whether it's written in Greek, Latin, Syriac, or another ancient language, can help narrow down the geographical origin and the time period of the manuscript.
  • Commentary or Inscriptions: Some manuscripts contain annotations by later readers or scribes that provide additional insights into how the manuscript was used and transmitted.

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2. Establishing the Manuscript’s Source (Provenance)​

Provenance Research​

• What is it? Provenance refers to tracing the history and ownership of a manuscript. Knowing where and how a manuscript was discovered or moved through history can give important clues about its origin.
• How it's done:
  • Ownership Marks: Many manuscripts have ownership inscriptions or ex-libris (ownership stamps) that identify who owned the manuscript at various points in time.
  • Libraries and Archives: If the manuscript is part of a major library or collection, scholars can trace its cataloging history and discovery timeline.
  • Sale Records: If the manuscript was sold at auction or passed through a dealer, scholars can investigate those records to determine when it left one location and moved to another.
  • Cultural Context: Provenance also includes understanding the cultural or historical context in which the manuscript was created or used, including the political, religious, and economic circumstances of the period.

Watermarks (for Paper Manuscripts)​

• What are they? Watermarks are distinctive marks left in paper that were created when the paper was manufactured. Watermarks can indicate the place and time of production.
• How it's done:
  • Scholars use tools to illuminate or magnify watermarks to identify the mill and date when the paper was made.
  • Example: Paper used in manuscripts after the 13th century often contains identifiable watermarks that help scholars date manuscripts.

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3. Textual Transmission and Variants​

Textual Criticism​

• What is it? Textual criticism is the process of comparing different manuscripts to identify differences in wording, errors, and intentional changes. This allows scholars to reconstruct the most likely original text.
• How it's done:
  • Comparing Manuscripts: Scholars compare various manuscripts of the same text to identify variants—passages that differ slightly (e.g., word choice, sentence structure).
  • Genealogical Method: By grouping manuscripts that share the same textual variations, scholars can create families of manuscripts (e.g., Byzantine, Alexandrian, Western text types for New Testament manuscripts).
  • Stemmatics: This involves constructing a stemma (family tree) of manuscripts, tracing how a text has been copied and evolved through different generations of scribes.

Citations and Quotations​

• What is it? Early references to a manuscript or text by other authors, such as Church Fathers or theologians, can provide evidence of the manuscript's circulation and influence.
• How it's done:
  • Scholars examine early citations of the manuscript or portions of its text in biblical commentaries, sermons, or theological writings.
  • Quotation Marks and Paraphrases: The way the text is quoted or paraphrased can give insights into the exact wording of the manuscript at a certain time.

Colophons and Annotations​

• What are they? Colophons are notes written by the scribe at the end of a manuscript that provide information about the copying process. Annotations could be notes by later readers or scribes indicating when and where the manuscript was copied or corrected.
• How it's done:
  • Colophons sometimes include dates, place names, and scribe names, allowing scholars to pinpoint exactly when and where the manuscript was copied.

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4. Studying the Reception History​

Commentaries and Scholarly Use​

• What is it? Manuscripts are often quoted, referenced, or interpreted in later works, providing insights into how the text was received and used.
• How it's done:
  • Scholars trace references to the manuscript in biblical commentaries, liturgical texts, and theological writings.
  • Example: If a manuscript of the New Testament is quoted by Irenaeus or Tertullian, scholars can learn how the text was understood in early Christian thought.

Manuscript Reuse and Rebinding​

• What is it? Over time, manuscripts were often rebound or reused to conserve them, sometimes with multiple texts bound together.
• How it's done:
  • Scholars study rebindings and the way different texts were incorporated together to understand the manuscript’s use and importance over time.

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5. Digital Manuscript Studies and Databases​

Manuscript Databases​

• What are they? Manuscript databases compile digital images of manuscripts, their metadata (provenance, condition, etc.), and textual variants.
• How it's done:
  • Scholars can search large collections of manuscripts using keywords, variants, or specific codicological features to compare and trace a manuscript’s history.
  • Example: The Digital Dead Sea Scrolls project digitized the Dead Sea Scrolls, allowing scholars to study them without damaging the fragile originals.

Comparative Analysis Software​

• What is it? New software tools help scholars compare multiple versions of manuscripts and track variants and evolutions of texts in real-time.
• How it's done:
  • Scholars can upload manuscript images or text into digital tools to automatically compare different versions of the same text. This speeds up textual analysis, helping to identify patterns of transmission and changes over time.

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Summary of the Steps in Tracing Manuscript History​

1. Identification and Classification:
   • Paleography, codicology, textual elements, and material analysis help categorize the manuscript and date it.
2. Provenance Research:
   • Provenance involves tracking ownership, geographical origin, and historical movement.
3. Textual Criticism:
   • Analyzing variations, errors, and corrections through comparison of manuscripts to reconstruct the original text.
4. Reception History:
   • Tracing how the manuscript was quoted, referenced, and used by later authors, scholars, and communities.
5. Digital Tools:
   • Modern tools enhance manuscript study with digital databases, comparative analysis, and software to assist scholars in manuscript research.

truthuprootsevil said:

Jesus said the world will hate you because it hated me first.

So if anyone is considered a follower of or chosen by Yahweh / Yeshua / Jesus they will have troubles, sorrows, and woes from the world.

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Sadly, Christians and Jews are hated for the wrong reasons. Not for being Christ-like. The most damning reason of hatred of Christianity is hypocrisy.