Paulwat said:

2. The story of Sodom — Genesis 19
The issue in the Sodom story is attempted gang rape, violence, and violation of hospitality norms — not sexuality.

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Paulwat said:

Ezekiel 16:49 says the sin was arrogance, greed, and neglecting the poor.

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Jude described their sin and likened the sin to what the fallen angels did. It was about sexuality.


Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."


Jude 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Strange flesh means other or different flesh. So it was against the natural order to do such things.

Paulwat said:

1. “Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind.” — Leviticus 18:22 / 20:13

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That verse is pretty straightforward. Are you sure you're not turning to man's word over God's?

Paulwat said:

The laws were meant to separate Israel from surrounding cultures, not to comment on sexual orientation.

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And he states that those other nations are defiled. So what is your point?

Paulwat said:

not to comment on sexual orientation.

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He called it an abomination. Now I personally have LGBQ in my family and I love them but that doesn't change the fact that I know how God sees it. And I'm not stating there aren't many other abominations to God but he does explicitly state this is one.

The problem with many today is they constantly think in the carnal sense. Sexuality should not even be the main driving force of a person. Even Paul states it would be better if they were as him, because they could then focus more on God, etc. But if they can't abstain, it would be better if they were to marry. And when he taught about marriage it was between a husband and wife.

Paulwat said:

The word “nature” (“physis”) in Greek doesn’t mean “universal law” — it means “someone’s individual nature.”

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phusis -natural production. It doesn't state individual nature.

And the word natural-phusikos -physically, instinctively-naturally

Paulwat said:

Also, Jesus never mentioned LGBT being wrong

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Because he knew that the people already knew the law. That's why he often states" have you not read?"

He also described marriage as being between a man and a woman.

Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

Matthew 19:5 "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"

Paulwat said:

Paulwat said:

3. “Against nature” — Romans 1:26–27
Paul is talking about idolatry in pagan temples and people acting against their own nature, meaning going against their own desires as part of cult rituals.

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No, it does not state "their own nature"


Romans 1:27 "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Paulwat said:

Paul had no concept of sexual orientation as we understand it today.
So this isn’t a blanket statement about LGBT identity or relationships.

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He knew what was sin.

And why would anyone address these relationships in the bible, when they didn't consider them relationships? They considered it sin, period.

And I'm not saying we're not all without sin or ganging up on this particular sin but to say it's not a sin would be to go against God's Word.

And again, concerning Christians, our focus should be on God, first and foremost. Sexuality is of the flesh, pure and simple. Paul states it's even better to abstain and if someone can't, then they should marry but he wasn't promoting homosexuality.

Apple Sky said:

Well what is the bottomless part of if not the earth ?

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No idea. But you're jumping to conclusions.

You quoted the verses about the bottomless pit to try to "prove" that the earth is not a globe - your words were "how can there be a bottomless pit on a ball?"
Revelation does not say that the bottomless pit is on the earth - end of, full stop. So it doesn't prove what you say.
Now, your only answer is "it must be; where else could it be?"

It's not on, or part of, the earth.
Revelation does not say where it is - or, in fact, how we should interpret it.

eclipsenow said:

FIRST - are you OK? Sleeping OK - mood OK? I know we've had our disagreements on climate stuff - but if rewatching shows is something you normally enjoy and now it's "Meh" - the old social worker version of myself hears a red flag.

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When I’m in pain, specifically arthritis and tendonitis, which appeared in my 30s due to the hereditary illness I have, my normally epic attention span (at age 14 I sat through the Soviet SF film Solaris, watching both reels on our VCR, during the day, and thoroughly enjoyed it, and found myself never looking at water the same way again) becomes shorter, to a frustrating degree. Indeed I use my attention span as a key metric in determing how much pain I’m in.

rjs330 said:

Yes I do if the order is out of the judges jurisdiction. In many of the cases regarding district Court judges it was questionable whether it was or wasn't and Trump didn't ignore those. In this case however, we have specific judges to deal with immigration law. Their word is final. Except for the Supreme Court. This judge has no legal jurisdiction by law over immigration courts.

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Yet judges keep making these rulings. It is almost as if they know the law and the limits of their power better then you do. In any case it is good to know you do not advocate for following proper legal proceedings.

chevyontheriver said:

Joe Biden had the legal authority to sign executive orders, even if he was considered crooked, even if the executive orders may have been unwise.

Nobody but the president has the authority to sign such things. So everything signed by someone else or something else is unlawful. The autopen signature orders should rightly be nullified. If a few of them are worthwhile Trump could sign them OR Congress could vote on them.

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Just because something is signed by autopen does not mean that Biden was not involved and someone else operated the machine.

Hans Blaster said:

Where was this sentence going?

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The same place this silly game of credendials is going, nowhere. My point was someone may be an expert in one aspect say machining. While another is an expert in chemistry or Egyptology.

There can be more than one experts and a sinle expert on one aspect is not an expert on other aspects. Then when you get two people claiming an expert on the same aspect who is right lol.

Thats why I like everyone to participate as their own expert. For some aspects like the obvious melted stone or clear cut machine marks you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see this. Nor recognise an expert in a particular area that you can use to support the case. Its all relative and contextual. Just saying your an expert does not mean much unless your specifying exactly what.

Hans Blaster said:

You've never spoken of it. In what way do you have expertise in those fields and how is it relevant to the discussion?

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I have been alluding to this thrughout this thread. Whatever is to do the the philosophical aspects such as the epistemics of how knowledge is developed within cultures or as a human cognition or behaviour output is my specialist area.

Which is really what the OP is all about and not the specific examples that require machinist in one situation, Chemist in another, physicists in another ect. We can go on forever with these specific examples and I thought this may help support the case of advanced lost knowledge.

But the real area of research that we can determine whether there is lost advanced knowledge is the study of knowledge itself and how it is developed in many different ways and having different dimensions by humans over history.

Hans Blaster said:

He's the guy who makes bicycle parts, right?

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Lol I hope your kidding. Because that grossly underestimates his ability. You do realise he actually pioneers and makes the machines and tools that make the parts lol. Is a well known machinist and precision tooler at Aerospace level. I linked his credentials earlier.

Hans Blaster said:

This is confusing, have you seen King's credentials or not?

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Yes I linked them earlier.

Chris King the framebuilder
For anyone not familiar with Chris, his hubs and headsets (made right here in Portland) are considered to be the best in the world and they have been ridden to three Tour de France victories by the US Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams.

Chris King Technology

After nearly fifty years in business, CKPC continues to be one of the premier makers of top-shelf hubs, headsets, and bottom brackets made in a leading-edge facility by a lot of folks who care a great deal about what they do.
It’s All Ball Bearings: Chris King Precision Components Factory Visit – Josh Weinberg

Hans Blaster said:

what are you asking for?

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Show similar support for the persons expertise like I have shown for King. I am not just saying "king is an expert who knows what he is talking about" and then offering no independent support. I have linked the support showing his credentials and ability.

I want you or whoever is claiming the expertise for machining, or tooling in relation to the vases to link independent evidence of their credentials. If you are demanding evidence, evidence and more evidence for everything I say.

Then likewise show me the independent evidence when anyone claims Smith or anyone is not an expert and instead an amateur. The same rule should apply if someone is going to make claims that someone is not an expert or claims to know more than the experts.

I have seen nothing. No independent evidence showing the expert credentials. Just personal claims. Its only fair.

Hans Blaster said:

Shape can be cut into wood. Being lather of wood doesn't make one knowledgeable in machining metals.

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Lol and yet some on this thread claimed wood working methods could apply to the granite vases. I know some have also referred to metal lathes as supporting their arguements for how lathing was or was not involved in the granite vases.

Why does not lathing wood involve the same principles. If you want to shape a circular opening in the mouth of a vase. How is this not a similar process of routing out the mouth opening whether wood or granite or metal. Just that the cutter on wood will be of a softer metal compared to the diamond cutter for stone.

The setup will also be difference as far as the mechanisms involved to achieve the same cuts. More heavy duty machines for granite to take the stress. Different cutting heads and arms ect. But the end result cut is the same. Both cut circles, cones, flat surfaces and bore holes for openings. The same principles apply.

Hans Blaster said:

What cutters of stone?

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Well obviously a diamond tipped cutter would be needed for granite. As opposed to say a soft metal cutter. Various wood working heads. But the principle is the same. Push the cutter into the block with a guide that will shape the body, bore out the opening, cut a flat top and lip to the opening ect.

It may be that the cutting machine head turns in some cases for intricate work. Or the object turnd and the cutter is applied and guided. But the principle is the same.

Hans Blaster said:

The Egyptologist.

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Why. To what evel do they know machining or tooling or even Masonary. Do they specialise to the same level that a machinist would in understand the machinimg and tooling involved.

I think this is silly logic. Because then if the Egyptian works needs other investigation like chemistry or phsyics on electromagnetism. Are we to always say the Egyptologist is more an expert in everything.

They are more a general knowledge on particular types of works on a superficial level as to which culture or cultural signatures for identifying artifacts. They are the ones that usually cite the orthoddoxy for everything. Even stuff they know little about. They are not gods of all knowledge lol.

Hans Blaster said:

How do you quantify that?

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By the simple fact that we can look up his credentials and look at his involvement with the vases. Visiting the museums, participating in the tests and ongoing analysis. I linked videos showing him at work lol.

Is there anyone on this thread who has been involved at that level specifically with Egyptian predyanstic vases. I doubt it. Otherwise please come forward lol. That I have to spell this out just shows how the obvious is even resisted. This goes back to the fact I have linked independent support and others have not.

Hans Blaster said:

You have put of a lot of frauds and grifters, like "Ben" of unchartedX or Dunn. What reservoir of presumptive trust you have started with is long gone.

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So you have just acknowledge the bias. Your now automatically tarring everyone like you percieve Ben and Dunn. Even though you have not even shown you are correct about Ben and Dunn. This is just doubling down on bias.

Hans Blaster said:

Do you know the story of the boy who cried wolf? (or was it "ancient advanced technology"?)

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But I have not cried wolf. Thats the conspiracy you have created lol. Not once have I mentioned any conspiracies. You are the one created the whole conspiracy that this thread is conspiracy and you just admitted its done purely by asociated and not actually investigating.

Hans Blaster said:

I generally don't read non-peer review science. It isn't worth my time.

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Of course your time is precious. Thats why you can spend lots of time on threads like this.

Hans Blaster said:

You want to know *who* we are? That ain't gonna happen.

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Then your only doubling down that your going to demand double standards. That I jump through loops and provide all this rigorious evidence and credentials for my sourses. But you can come along and make little claims all over the place without citing one bit of support. As I said its bias and double standards from the start. This thread had no chance.

Hans Blaster said:

we aren't making claims. Your advanced ancient techonology sources are.

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Your making claims all over the place and you don't even realise it lol. I guess if you think a mere claim by words is like peer review then you don't need any support for your claims.

Every time someone says "no that not evidence" they are making a claim that requires independent evidence. You just made several in this very post. You claim an Egyptologist knows more about the tooling involved in making vases. You supplied absolutely no evidence. This has been happening all through this thread and you cannot even see this. Thats a interesting.

Hans Blaster said:

I could scroll up to find out who "he" is, but your posts are too long and I am done with this one.

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Then why bother even posting lol.

Your probably a bit like me and getting sick of the whole thing now. Its become a thread on credibility and once it gets to that point we may as well forget the whole thing.

bbbbbbb said:

I think that rather then going through a ritual of washing perfectly clean and healthy feet, it would be much more humbling to wash a pair of really filthy, diseased feet.

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I’ve done that personally - an elderly gentleman and veteran in his late 70s in a situation of poverty known to me.

However, from a liturgical perspective, it would be an embarrassment to the recipient to do that in front of a congregation, and there are real mystagogical and emotional benefits for all participants.

And also I would note, the fact that the boys of the church now have clean and (and mostly healthy, but this isn’t guaranteed; flat footedness and various disorders of the bone structure are unfortunately not uncommon) feet is a very recent phenomenon made possible by the improvement in the standard of living in the US and the Middle East in the late 20th century. So the idea that this ritual is hollow because the feet in question do not require being washed is a new concept, based on a very recent turn of events, and in my view it would be quite wrong to abolish this liturgy on that basis. For example, suppose there should be a collapse of our technological civilization due to some catastrophe? As it is, for reasons I will explain, there are two countries with substantial, in one case, a majority Oriental Orthodox population, where the conditions I mentioned do not exist, and abolishing this liturgy now would result in it not being done under such conditions, aside from the loss of mystagogical definition.

In the case of Ethiopia, I don’t know if they do this particular liturgy, although I should like to find out, but if they do, that country, which is home the largest Oriental Orthodox church, the condition of health and cleanliness would unfortunately exist only in the wealthier parts of Addis Ababa and certain other cities and in the diaspora, since Ethiopia and Eritrea (which became independent in the early 1990s in a war that followed the collapse of the Derg regime) have both suffered poverty, famine and in the case of Eritrea, a brutal and oppressive dictatorship, ever since the Communist Derg regime came to power in the 1970s, strangling the Christian emperor Haile Selassie*, and before that endured nearly a decade of oppression by the Italian fascist regime of Mussolini.

But if you want to find examples of Eastern and Oriental Orthodox priests and bishops who have done a lot for those in need, including washing their feet, our synaxaria is full of them, into the 20th century, for example, St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco. Likewise the Roman Catholics and many Protestant denominations have done superb work; Mother Theresa, an Albanian Catholic, comes to mind (Albania also has a large Eastern Orthodox population; the evil and stupid communist dictator Enver Hoxha tried to suppress all religions but as soon as his regime collapsed, the Christian faith reasserted itself; alas so too did Islam make a comeback). But Mother Theresa is far from the only example. Indeed the charitable operations of the Roman Catholic Church are the boast of all Christendom in my view; their charitable operations are more numerous, larger and better organized than those of anyone else.

* Haile Selassie it should be noted was opposed to Rastafarianism and attempted to convert the Rastas to Orthodoxy, sending missionaries to them, with some success. Nonetheless to the chagrin of all Egyptian and Ethiopian Christians you will find some Rastas who claim to be Coptic, which they aren’t (they only claim this because the Ethiopians were part of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria until the mid 20th century); both the Coptic and Ethiopian churches take a very dim view of marijuana use, and what is more, the Ethiopian church even strictly limits alcohol consumption; Ethiopian Orthodox Christians get one ration of a mild church-brewed beer along with bread at a few vigils throughout the year, before standing all night in prayer, that being the limit.

stevevw said:

It has to sound like its Good News or a reveelation or something people are seeking. That spaaarks their interests even without mentioning God or the bible in direct ways. Christ was good at it.

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Right, hence parables. Connecting to seeking hearts rather than ranting to deaf ears.

stevevw said:

But I also think there are times when no matter what you say it provokes a reaction because it is the truth. Its actually exposing the deciet and liars and they become threatened.

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Can't remember the quote but it embodies this absolutely, and paraphrased it was said that "If Satan possessed one of the disciples how much more every non-believer on Earth." It obviously is true if one is aware and intellectually honest about their observations pertaining to encounters where the message of the Bible is being proclaimed, the demonic manifests, the evil is visible, the behavior is lunacy.

It says in 2 Corinthians 2:16 we are the smell of death to those who are "perishing" because God to them is judgment and Hellfire, and so the threat is that very concept because they cannot hear the message of forgiveness when they aren't looking to repent or agree with God about their fallen nature. Add the evil spirits and demonic following them around and possessing them and the "threat level" is code red.. all defenses up.

stevevw said:

Its interest as with Christ and Paul and others they accused them of blasphamy. Of defying or breaching the religious code that the powerful were using to control.

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Good point there. You mean that Christ would "defy the religious establishments" in today's society? Oh yes He would, and they would probably try to crucify Him again if He returned clothed in humility, but we all know it is a lion that is returning.

stevevw said:

I think this is similar to how today where Christians are shamed or made out to be hateful and harming others for holding a belief that is percieved to break the codes and practices of secular ideologies in the same way the Pharisees called Christians blasphemers for breaking the codes of the religiously powerful of that time.

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Well absolutely, it is a ploy by the devil to hijack the core of God's power which is "love" and paint it as pampering and gentleness to keep anyone from actually "fighting" against darkness or evil. Preaching acceptance of literally anything is the "new love," versus that really hard, trail blazing, narrow road, and carrying the weight of responsibility (defending weak, helping the poor, etc) stuff that most people simply don't want to hear.

So the message that you have sins in the first place is a big "oh no" to most who hear out the gate, and they can hardly hear "forgiveness" or "gift" for the humming they are doing and the fingers plugged into their ears as an initial reaction.

It takes a special message curated by God the Holy Spirit to reach people who are so opposed to such an abject degree to the "Good News" that we are sinners (threat to identity of good person) and that God sent His Son as a gift (part they don't think they need) to save their lives from evil.

I think that focus is love (1 John 4:8), but love in truth (Ephesians 4:15). I think showing love is even more powerful than speaking it though, such as the cross, but an extension of it through our behavior. That is when people's ears open to hear, because no one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.

Be compassionate to those who have PTSD and terminal illnesses insread of judgmental. Jesus wept.

Stopped_lurking said:

They all go by external genitalia when doing sex determinations. And they go by gender expression when deciding on pronouns.

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No they don't because we havent always had our genitalia hanging out. When ancient tribes fought and tried to take each other's females they weren't running around checking everyone's genitalia. They could tell who was who.

Dan1988 said:

I have asked you many times to show me a single verse to support your un biblical private theory, but you have consistently failed. I knew you would fail miserably because your theology is based on false doctrines.

If a single verse existed to support your private theory, you would have googled it by now and used it to prop up your strawman.
Not sure why you keep listing unrelated verses of scripture which say nothing to support your wild theories. It just shows that you're desperate to defend the indefensible.

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So once again, you fail to answer biblical questions about certain scriptures.
Wow, some teachers you have. They have not even prepared you to answer the simplest of questions regarding certain verses and your beliefs on them. And you've failed to show how we are taking them out of context and what you believe they really mean. You should be prepared to give an answer at all times if you really had all of the truth. But you can't because you only have what you're being spoon fed with. And that's a sad state.

Hopefully you'll set out on your own one day with an objective mind and test the them/your teachers verses what the Word of God is really stating about certain subjects. And if you still believe as you do, fine but at least you will have at least made an honest effort. And hopefully you'll have learned some humility in the process.

Rescued One said:

National Guard members shot in Washington, DC, identified as Sarah Beckstrom, 20, and Andrew Wolfe, 24, US attorney says. Both are in critical condition.

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Sarah Beckstrom is deceased.

All those verses in the NT and Gospels about petitioning the government.....

Third day

Yttrium said:

Should we send the Statue of Liberty back to France? It seems out of place now.

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Nah, just remove the wretched refuse plaque that was put on the pedestal years afterwards.

Generally, hospital uniforms mimic underwear.

MIMIC

iluvatar5150 said:

That one of the Afghans committed murder doesn’t mean Vance wasn’t also being bigoted.

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It also doesn't mean he was.

A large portion of this country has become nothing but a crybaby.

Welcome to the forums! I look forward to seeing your posts.

One of the features I enjoy here is conversations. Conversations are private mail threads that look like forum posts and can include more than one person. I use it regularly for fellowship and study with others here.

God bless!

AV1611VET said:

Is that why you said they preach pseudoscience as truth?

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It's religion that they preach as if it's science. But it's not science. Thus pseudoscience.

AI overview:

Porneia

is a Greek word that translates to "sexual immorality" or "fornication" and refers to any form of illicit sexual activity. It is a broad term that can encompass prostitution, adultery, incest, and other forms of sexual misconduct or "sexual sin of any kind". The English word "pornography" is derived from this Greek term.

Specific meanings and uses of porneia

• General sexual immorality: It is a broad term for sexual relations outside of marriage.
• Prostitution: The word is related to the Greek porne, meaning "prostitute" or "harlot," and porneia can refer to prostitution or harlotry.
• Adultery: In some biblical passages, porneia is used to describe adultery, which is sexual intercourse with someone else's spouse.
• Incest: The New Testament uses porneia to describe an incestuous relationship in 1 Corinthians 5:1.
• Other sexual sin: It can also be used as a catch-all term for any sexual transgression, including fornication (premarital sex) and lewdness.

How can you blow that up of proportion while excusing a tax deadbeat who billed NY taxpayers, including me for several years, of half a billion$?