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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Two National Guard soldiers shot in Washington DC

Once again this is a failure of our Government. Biden's administration let him in and apparently a judge let him stay as an asylee.

We shouldn't be letting people from third world countries with their terrorism and Islamist points of view into this country.

This person served the interest of our government for nearly a decade in Afghanistan. Reportedly, he was assigned to an Aghan military unit that was tasked by our own CIA to carry out missions that according to a friend, left him scared and likely dealing with PTSD. Were those scars apparent when he was granted a visa? Probably not. Like many US military veterans, he probably suffered silently, with no one around him that could related to experience he had in Afghanistan.

I don't know what the answer is here but I do believe we, the U.S., have an obligation to care for those Afghan nationals that carried out our national interest for years in Afghanistan. Simiply declaring that all Afghans are dangerous based one former soldier flipping is wrong and immoral.
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B flat B♭

It's incorrect, and who's Albert Pike?

A master 33 degree freemason who wrote a book called 'Morals & Dogma.

MORALS and DOGMA by ALBERT PIKE Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry , prepared for the Supreme Council of the Thirty Third Degree for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States: Charleston, 1871.

MORALS and DOGMA by ALBERT PIKE SHORT BIOGRAPHY TITLES OF DEGREES 1º - Apprentice 2º - Fellow-craft 3º - Master 4º - Secret Master 5º - Perfect Master

LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darknesss! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls ? Doubt it not!

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Does Daniel 9:24–27 support a dual 70-week fulfillment with a chiastic structure?

The decree was 444 bc in Nehemiah 2 20th year of Artaxerxes- 483 =39 Ad -1 year when going from bc to ad = 38 AD. The author of Genesis, and Jubilees (both Moses) are using 360 day a year calendar same with the author of Revelation so need to - another 7 years = 31 AD for the crucifixion. The 444 date comes from archaeology, and could be wrong by a year or two. Notice the 70th 7 is not connected to the 69th in Daniel 9. Eleazar Ben Hananias stops the daily sacrifice 66 AD starting the Judean Roman wars (Josephus) so the final 7 was 63-70 AD ending with the temple being destroyed, and someone setting up an abomination of desolation in it before hand whatever it was as it was not recorded by Josephus. Inspired scripture stopped here too.

Brother, thank you for your thoughtful contribution!
Your observations about the decree of Artaxerxes, the 360-day prophetic calendar, and Josephus’ account of the cessation of sacrifices are valuable pieces of the discussion. You clearly have a good grasp of the historical data and how many scholars approach Daniel’s timeline. I appreciate the precision and care in your argument.

Allow me to respond point-by-point with respect, while also offering a few clarifications from the Hebrew text, chronology, and New Testament context.

1. About the 444 BC decree (Nehemiah 2)

The 444 BC date is indeed widely held (Artaxerxes’ 20th year), but even conservative scholars acknowledge some chronological uncertainties in Persian regnal years.
However, Daniel 9:25 says:
מִן־מֹצָא דָבָר לְהָשִׁיב וְלִבְנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִַם
"From the going forth of the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem."
Many scholars note that Ezra 7 (457 BC) is the only decree that explicitly authorizes restoration (לְהָשִׁיב) not just repairs. Nehemiah’s decree is more narrowly focused on the walls.
So while 444 BC is a legitimate position, 457 BC remains linguistically stronger.
Your point is well-taken, but the Hebrew nuances keep the discussion open.

2. About the 360-day prophetic calendar

Yes, prophetic literature often uses a 360-day schema (e.g., Rev 11–12: “1260 days = 42 months = 3½ years”).
But applying a strict 360-day year to Daniel’s 70 weeks is interpretive, not required by the Hebrew text.
In Daniel 9, no unit of days is mentioned only שָׁבֻעִים (weeks/sets of seven).
The text leaves the “type” of year undefined.
So using a 360-day year can be helpful, but it is not mandated linguistically.

3. “The 70th week is not connected to the 69th”

This is an excellent observation. Many scholars agree with you:
There is an intentional gap between the 69th and the 70th week.

Daniel 9:26 explicitly states:
וְאַחֲרֵי הַשָּׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם
“After the sixty-two weeks…” then events occur before v.27’s final week begins.
This does show a structural separation.
Where interpreters differ is how long the gap is.

You propose 33–63 AD.
Others argue the gap continues into the last days (cf. Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2; Rev 13).
Both views attempt to handle the same textual tension in different ways.

4. Eleazar ben Hananiah stopping the sacrifices (66 AD)

You are absolutely right that Josephus records this:

“The daily sacrifice was stopped by the zealots.” (Wars 4.2.1)

This is a strong candidate for the “cessation of sacrifice” in Daniel 9:27.
However:

• The text of Daniel 9 describes a covenant being enforced (וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים)

There is no record of Eleazar, Zealots, or Romans strengthening a covenant with many.

• Jesus places the “abomination of desolation” (Dan 9:27) in the future relative to 30 AD (Matt 24:15)

Meaning something beyond His earthly ministry.

So 66–70 AD is historically important,
but not a complete fulfillment of Daniel 9:27.

5. “Inspired Scripture stopped here.”

Brother, respectfully this is a theological conclusion, not a textual one.
Jesus and the apostles treat the destruction of Jerusalem as a pattern, but not the final culmination:
  • Paul (2 Thess 2) speaks of a future man of lawlessness seated in the temple of God.
  • John (Revelation) describes further abominations, prophetic timelines, and covenant persecutions.
  • Jesus (Matt 24:21–29) links a future tribulation to Daniel’s prophecy.
So the New Testament does not treat 70 AD as the end of prophetic history.

Blessings
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Virgin Mary Doesn’t Have ‘The Role Of Holding Back God’s Wrath,’ Vatican Expert Says

God may have relented on occasion due to Moses intercession, but there were several occasions when He still punished the people of Israel, sometimes severely.

This is an AI generated summary -

Key instances where God punished the Israelites include:

Worship of the Golden Calf (Exodus 32): After Moses was on Mount Sinai, the people created a golden calf to worship. As punishment, God ordered the Levites to kill about 3,000 people.

Complaining at Taberah (Numbers 11:1-3): The people complained about their hardships, and the Lord sent fire that burned the outer edges of the camp.

Craving Meat (Numbers 11:4-35): After complaining about the lack of meat and being tired of manna, God provided a massive amount of quail but also sent a severe plague that killed many people due to their gluttony and lack of trust.

Miriam and Aaron's Rebellion (Numbers 12): When Miriam and Aaron challenged Moses's authority, God punished Miriam with leprosy for a period of seven days.

Refusal to Enter the Promised Land (Numbers 14): The most significant punishment occurred when the people, out of fear after hearing the spies' report, refused to enter the Promised Land and wanted to return to Egypt. God sentenced that entire generation of adults (except Joshua and Caleb) to die in the wilderness, wandering for 40 years. The ten spies who brought the bad report were struck down by a plague and died immediately.

Korah's Rebellion (Numbers 16): Certain leaders, including Korah, rebelled against Moses's and Aaron's leadership. God caused the earth to open up and swallow the main offenders and their families, while a subsequent plague killed 14,700 people who sided with the rebels.

Complaining about Lack of Water (Numbers 21:4-9): The people complained again about the lack of water and food. God sent poisonous snakes (fiery serpents) into the camp, which bit the people, and many died.

Idolatry at Peor (Numbers 25): The Israelites engaged in sexual immorality and worshipped the Midianite god, Baal of Peor. This resulted in a plague that killed 24,000 people.
God might concede to Mary's requests from time to time, but if He gets fed up enough, He'll act and when He does it will be tough.

Mary might intercede for us, but she can't hold back HIs wrath.
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Struggling with feeling God’s presence

Think our minds wander but ...

There is " ... when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret..." Matt 6:6 There will be interruptions but we don't need to pursue them at that pont in time. To represent a list, I make a writing motion for a sec and deliberately refocus on God.

Of course, we can pray anytime. There are important elements of prayer including praise, thanksgiving, forgiveness, and repentance (Matt 6, Psa 100:4, 107:1, Eph 5:20, Jam 1:17, Heb 13:15, Rev 2-3).

Prayer is communicating with the Only One True God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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Jude, and 1 Enoch

I'm reluctant to reply to this because I've had a few drinks but:

I've been toying with the idea in my mind for about a year now that the spirit of a person is not the same as the flesh of a person, and so this allows for re-incarnation of spirits of persons and permutations of persons. so imagine you bake a sourdough bread starting from the same starter, but you change the recipe each time. you save a bit, but save the original, and keep doing this over and over again. the recipe is the flesh. the spirit is from God. you combine the two you get a new "person" each time.

so for example, Jesus says john the baptist is Elijah. but john says he isn't Elijah... john is both right and wrong.

so suppose the spirit of a person (which is from God) is not necessarily new, suppose its been on the earth before. but each time results in a new person.

so while pondering specific details of these thoughts, within 1 day someone on a certain internet forum creates a post that suggests that Jesus is Elisha re-incarnated.
i read it thinking to myself: that's weird. never heard that idea before. I privately message him and initially the exchange is positive, then, he starts mocking me. I then think to mock him back saying, Jesus can't be Elisha, because i am.

but i don't, I knew i would be lying if i said that. so i ask him: what is the name of the spirit that called me by the name of Elisha, 12 hours before you made your post?"
and he replies back with "Yeshua"

I share this whole exchange with a friend of mine and.. turns out he met a man who started a cult that believes Jesus is Elijah re-incarnated.

---i'm still left wondering what called me by the name Elisha. -and had the ability to put the same idea into some random person's head who then puts it on the internet.. a person who chooses to mock me rather than accept my free will invitation to talk about the concept.?


for most of my childhood i assumed that Elisha was a female prophet, based on the character as expressed in the accounts. . to be honest i'm still left wondering on that.
Elisha was a he / him in the bible. Yes maybe it meant John the Baptist had the same spirit of prophecy Elijah had. I don't know really.
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The Great Judgment is coming

Time is running short; The Great Judgment is at hand.
All souls that fail to meet the standard will be destroyed, for this judgment is a prelude to Christ's Final Judgment.
Any soul that has participated in cult sacrifices or worshipped demon will be destroyed.
Any soul of a pastor who has used the name of God to illegally reap wealth will be destroyed.
Any soul that is maliciously involved in the LGBTQ movement will be destroyed.
What is the destruction of a soul?
To suffer forever and ever in the eternal fires of
God's Judgemt Day indeed draws closer continually as time advances… beyond that we know little of the timing. Jesus says in Matthew 24 that all the signs are were already there at that time. Keep Watch of yourself… your life and doctrine is being warned of here. Watch to protect God’s sheep and have a heart toward people and in this way continue to evangelize and have hope for them and remember such ones in prayer. We all were once lost so have mercy on them, mixed with fear!

We see the written accounts of folks who sinned these great sins you listed and they repented, were forgiven and thanked and praised God for the reward of eternal life within them. Even the last hour workers receive an inheritance
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

Nazi top brass were put on trial just like Narco kingpins like El Chapo and others have been put on trial.
A lot more than Nazi top brass was brought before a court. I guess you have heard of the different denazification processes in the different zones controlled by the Allies. Low importance members of the Nazi party were not summarily executed. So what is what in your analogy?
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So, Is the Body Positivity Movement Still a Thing?

I think it was a mistake to reduce the "body positivity" movement to people being happy with being fat. Especially since that is one of the body alterations that is easily reversible by changing habits in most cases. It not only drastically reduces quality of life and life expectancy, but unduly causes costs and drains manpower in the health industry.

If you are okay with having turned your body fat into your own enemy, fine, but leave some room for the rest of people who aren't at fault for having a body they are being shamed for.
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The Final Experiment (Flat Earth Bites The Dust)

This does show that we both think on the same lines so he can't be all that wrong :D
That isn't the only conclusion to be drawn from your experience, since both of you missed the clear evidence that demonstrates it is a work of fiction.
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New belief among teenagers. What do you think?

i feel so sorry if this is how teens see themselves if they truly do , sometimes teens like to role-play or do cosplay as in dress up as their faveorate charter from movies or tv shows and anime , but if a teen think they ARE animals they need to see a dr asap , they need to see a psych and fast
when i was a child i would role-play and teen are still children, you don't have a full brain capacity until you are 25 .they have research it . i know where are adults that feel they are from tv and films etc there is game play in board games that you role-play, i won't say what game as it not a thing we should talk about he cos we do have younger members of the forum .
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Christian OU student flunked after calling gender ideology 'demonic'



...Nowhere in their research do Jewell and Brown discuss transgender identity, nonbinary identity, gender transition, pronouns or anything adjacent to contemporary culture-war debates. Rather, their focus is gender typicality — how closely a child’s visible behavior matches peer expectations...

...Fulnecky’s reflection misreads the article by assuming it is about transgender or nonbinary ideology, when in fact the article does not address those topics at all. Terms like “gender atypicality” refer to children liking non-stereotypical activities — boys who enjoy art, girls who prefer sports (and this is where we should note that Fulnecky is a member of OU’s women’s tennis team) — not to children questioning their gender. The reflection attributes views to the article the authors never express....

...Another misunderstanding arises when the reflection frames the article as advocating for “eliminating gender.” The study does not argue this. Its only claim is that children fare better when they are not punished for liking activities outside traditional stereotypes. Affirming that a boy can enjoy reading instead of football or that a girl can prefer science to dance is not a call to abolish gender. It is a call to stop harming children for being themselves....

...Fulnecky also denies the article’s central finding that gender-based teasing harms children, writing that teasing “is not necessarily a problem” and suggesting men and women are not pressured to conform. This contradicts the research directly, which links teasing to anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, negative body image and school avoidance. Dismissing these data because they conflict with personal ideology is not an academic critique — it is a refusal to understand or engage the material.

In short, Fulnecky’s reflection on Jewell and Brown’s article is not actually a reflection or reaction to the article. She does not meaningfully engage the article’s variables, data or methodology. She misunderstands its central premise and contradicts without rationale its central conclusion.
Instead of analyzing the study, Fulnecky critiques an ideological position unrelated to the article’s content. She reacted to an imagined version of the article, not the research in front of her. And that is the larger issue....

...Fulnecky’s response does not merely misunderstand Jewell and Brown’s findings; it reinforces the very harm the researchers documented. And this is not an isolated misreading but a textbook example of a broader pattern within contemporary conservative ideology, where empirical questions are routinely reframed as theological battles or moral panics.

Instead of engaging the study’s clear evidence that shame and teasing damage children, Fulnecky substitutes an entirely different issue: Gender panic and culture-war rhetoric.

By shifting the conversation away from the well-being of children and toward a manufactured ideological threat, she protects the systems of ridicule and social pressure the article identifies as harmful. In the end, Fulnecky’s reaction doesn’t just miss the point, it becomes part of the problem by perpetuating the very patterns of bullying and coercion she insists are acceptable for others while demanding validation for herself....
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

The nonsense perpetrated by @stevevw there is no evidence of the ancient Egyptians using conventional tools particularly during the Old Kingdom is refuted by the following table.

ParameterWhat It ShowsArchaeological EvidenceImplication (Supports Conventional Tools)
1. Surviving ToolsDirect physical proof of technology usedCopper chisels, stone hammers, dolerite pounders, bow drills, tubular copper drills, flint blades, polishing stones found in tombs, quarries, workshopsDemonstrates the tool types available and used — no unknown technology required
2. Workshop AssemblagesContext evidence of manufacturingFinds at Giza, Saqqara, Deir el-Medina, Aswan, Hierakonpolis show tool kits, unfinished objects, debitageConfirms how tools were applied in situ
3. Unfinished Artifacts“Frozen moments” of workPartially carved granite statues, bowls, and obelisks showing intermediate stagesShows step-by-step stages achievable using chiseling, pounding, rubbing, and drilling
4. Quarry Tool MarksDirect traces of working stoneDolerite pounding pits, copper chisel marks, wedge holes at Aswan, Gebel el-Silsila, TuraMatches tools that were found—no anomalous machining marks
5. Drill Holes Showing Spiral GroovesCharacteristic signature of rotary abrasionSpiral striations created by quartz sand abrasive + copper tube drillsMatches experimental reproduction; not consistent with high-speed machinery
6. Bow Drill EvidenceAttested drilling methodBow drills found in tombs; depictions in Old Kingdom tomb scenesExplains small circular holes and vessel hollowing
7. Tubular Copper DrillsExplains core drillingArchaeological copper tubes + cores from granite and limestoneReproduced experimentally to match Egyptian core geometry
8. Microstructure of Tool MarksReveals tool hardness and motionMicroscopy shows crushing, abrasion patterns, and quartz-sand scoringConsistent with pounding stones and sand abrasives, not high-speed cutting
9. Dolerite Pounding DepressionsMechanically distinct from carvingAswan quarries show large bowl-shaped depressions where dolerite was repeatedly hammeredDemonstrates long-term mechanical wear, consistent with manual pounding
10. Sand Abrasive ResiduesConfirms abrasive techniqueQuartz grains embedded in drill grooves and polishing scratchesMatches known Egyptian use of desert sand as abrasive
11. Relief Cutting EvidenceExplains shallow arcs and intricate shapesTool marks consistent with chisels, bow drills, and abrasion finishingNo anomalous cutting forces required
12. Overlapping Drill HolesTechnique for cutting curvesBow drills used to make multiple small holes that were later chiseled outArchaeologically known method for producing arcs and internal corners
13. Tube Drill Diameter LimitsConfirms realistic tool sizesMost copper tube drills 1–10 cm diameter; none at “micro” scaleSupports traditional methods; no micro-machining attested
14. Experimental ArchaeologyModern replication validates plausibilityEngineers (Stocks, Dunnell, Denys Stocks, stonemasons) replicated granite cutting, drilling, and vase-making with known toolsDemonstrates all observed marks can be reproduced without advanced technology
15. Tomb & Temple DepictionsVisual documentation of tool useOld Kingdom scenes show bow drills, pounders, chisels, saws, polishingNo depictions of unknown technologies
16. Stratigraphic ContextDates tools to correct periodsTools found in layers matching Old Kingdom and Middle Kingdom chronologyConfirms Egyptians had these tools at the time monuments were built
17. Lack of Residues from Advanced MachineryNegative evidenceNo metal alloys, bearings, lubricants, high-speed wear patternsStrongly argues against machinery of unknown type
18. Consistency Across SitesTool marks uniform across EgyptSame tools used in Saqqara, Giza, Aswan, Luxor, SinaiImplies widespread traditional craft, not lost advanced tech
19. Material Science LimitsCopper + quartz abrasive is adequateQuartz abrasive has Mohs hardness 7 → can cut granite at 6–7No exotic materials needed
20. Cultural ContinuitySkills evolved over centuriesOld to New Kingdom shows incremental improvementNo sudden appearance of advanced technology
This is double stanbdards. You demand peer review and make people jump through hoops with demands of independent evidence. Then post a list of claims without any link or evidence at all let alone peer review and celebrate it a winner.

Just shows how willing some are to accept stuff without evidence. So long as it fits their beliefs.

I can play this game and make up stuff in a table.
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6 Craziest Revelations From Scathing Report on Kash Patel — Including His Refusal to Leave a Plane Until He Was Given a Female Agent’s Jacket

Patel already displayed his incompetence early on many times like when he kept tweeting out information during ongoing investigations. But then he did this:

> A top FBI official with 27 years standing has reportedly been fired by the bureau after its director, Kash Patel, became enraged by press stories revealing he had used a government jet to travel to see his girlfriend sing the national anthem at a wrestling match.

>Steven Palmer, who had worked at the bureau since 1998, was fired as head of the FBI’s critical incident response group which is responsible for handling major security threats as well as overseeing the agency’s fleet of jets. He was the third head of the unit to be dismissed since Patel became the second Trump administration’s FBI director in February.

> Bloomberg Law, which broke the story, said that three unnamed sources had expressed astonishment at the sacking given that Patel’s flight schedules were fully public and trackable on websites.

He's an idiot.

Between him and Hegseth and RFK jr. this administration is staffed by the dumbest most incompetent people imaginable. Here's a fun word to describe the situation, kakistocracy, a country governed by imbeciles.
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Why do people hate ICE...

Why? Do we get more money from somebody.

Detention facilities are getting 700-1000k per day to house people. The longer they keep someone, the more money is made.

ICE agents have quotas. Legal residents and citizens have reported being stopped or detained more than once.
ICE agents have said the quotas are hurting morale and preventing them from targeting actual criminals.

Many of the people being detained are in the midst of seeking asylum legally and cant just be removed from the country. If they have a lawyer and are fighting removal, many are not being released until the cases are resolved. If they win their immigration cases, ICE has been keeping them anyway in poor conditions and pressuring them to "self deport." (Though I think a couple of judges recently ruled they have to release them on bond.) There are reports of ICE "losing" people because they are shuffling them around to different centers or housing them under false names.
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

they are the same person. Lucifer fell and then was called the devil.



Yep , Lucifer was created sinless but then became , Satan, the devil, the serpent of old.

Well so far you are stuck on an island where Lucifer did not fall and become the devil. The rest of us are not taken up with that suggestion.

Isaiah 14:12 and Ezekiel 28, which describe a proud Cherub cast down from heaven, and Luke 10:18 where Jesus says, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven
You are very confused, I corrected you by teaching you that Ezekiel was not speaking about Satan/The Devil. Satan/The Devil did not exist when Lucifer was in heaven. Lucifer left His first estate and He morphed into a vile and totally depraved evil creature.

So, please go and join a bible class for beginners, so you can get your basic fundamentals down pat, then you can try to go toe to toe with me. In the meantime, you will only embarrass yourself every time you try challenge me.

Satan believes and knows full well that the Lord Jesus will torment Hi in the lake of fire for all eternity. That's why He is so full of hatred and rage. The Bible confirms that many professing Christians will join Him in the lake of fire.
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Christmas

Probably not. I have heard it said that the sheep would not have been outside at night in winter

The idea of December was paganism & comes from Saturnalia,

AI Overview

How To Celebrate Saturnalia Like A Roman | DigVentures

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival celebrated in mid-December in honor of the god Saturn. It was a joyous, carnival-like holiday marked by feasting, gift-giving, and the temporary suspension of social order, including role reversals where masters served slaves. Originally a one-day celebration on December 17th, it was eventually expanded to last seven days, ending on December 23rd.
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Game based on Bible passage about killing everything that breathes

Joshua is the beginning of carrying out the command to wipe out these nations, isn't it?
Yeah I didn't think of that. Moses never entered the cities of the promised land though Deuteronomy 20:16-20 talks all about it. So things in Joshua could be relevant too then like you were saying.
Oh. Not getting them to fly?
I couldn't get the arrows to attach to the animal - e.g. its leg or body.
How will you catch a runaway horse, or a cat for that matter... give it fish? :grin:
The animals in the game are very tame. Also there are holy hand grenades and the "Body Hacker" (hacks into the Matrix/simulation)
You are calling the shots here, John. Not me.
It's your game. I know what I would do for a game. It won't invite the lovers of violence, but it would still be fun.
Everyone has their own heart.
BTW in the Roman Colosseum the crowds also loved violence... "Executions by beasts were popular among plebeians, who saw them as thrilling entertainment". That is far too shocking for my tastes though.
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