• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

'Scourge of antisemitism:' Australian bishops call for prayer after 12 killed in Bondi Beach terrorist attack

I
Catholic leaders in Australia have responded with prayer and condemnation of antisemitism following what police described as a terrorist attack on a Hanukkah celebration at Sydney’s Bondi Beach on Sunday that left 12 people dead and 29 others injured.

Archbishop Anthony Fisher of Sydney called for prayer and the intercession of the Virgin Mary in the immediate aftermath of the Dec. 14 shooting, which authorities said included one of the alleged gunmen among the dead.

“As we follow the horrific news coming from this evening’s shooting at Bondi Beach, let us pray for those who have been killed or injured,” Fisher said in a statement released shortly after the attack. “May Our Lady, Queen of Peace, intercede for all affected, and for our beloved city at this time.”

The archbishop also offered prayers for the “many who were forced to run for their lives” and for emergency service workers responding at the scene.

Continued below.
it seems like attacks of this nature were more common here in the USA but now they’re everywhere. It’s so scary.
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Favorite Christmas Songs

So many! It's hard to pick. I love Christmas music, both sacred and secular. I'll go with these:

Favorite Christmas carols:
Hark, the Herald Angels Sing
O Come, All Ye Faithful

Favorite religious Christmas songs no one's ever heard of:
Tomorrow Shall Be My Dancing Day
A Stable Lamp is LIghted

Favorite Advent song:
People Look East

Favorite secular December songs:
The Christmas Song
Silver Bells
The Holly and the Ivy
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Trump administration says sign language services ‘intrude’ on Trump’s ability to control his image

No, what I'm saying is that you had replied to my reply to another user. And that user was conveying something different than what you were conveying. I didn't mean that you (individually) were providing mixed messages.
Ah! Thanks for the clarification.
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Did this really happen? Clint Eastwood rebukes Joel Osteen?

The thumbnail uses a photo of Clint Eastwood, but the situation itself is not real

This kind of thumbnail is extremely common on YouTube. Here’s what’s going on:

1. The image of Clint Eastwood is real​

It’s a genuine photo of him — usually taken from a movie still, interview, or press image.

2. The scenario is fake​

Clint Eastwood did not tell Joel Osteen anything, and Joel Osteen did not tell Clint Eastwood “Get out of here, old man.” The thumbnail is designed to look dramatic, but it’s not depicting a real event.

3. The text is added for clickbait​

The phrase “GET OUT OF HERE, OLD MAN” is not something Clint Eastwood said in real life. It’s simply added to provoke curiosity.

4. The two men were never in that moment together​

The thumbnail is a composite — two unrelated images placed side by side to create a fake confrontation.

5. The video itself is a storytelling/dramatization channel​

These channels often use:

  • celebrity faces
  • dramatic titles
  • emotional thumbnails …to get views, even when the story is fictional or loosely inspired.

Searched MS Copilot and this is what it came up with. Hope this helps you.
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Sign language services ‘intrude’ on Trump’s ability to control his image, administration says


The Trump administration is arguing that requiring real-time American Sign Language interpretation of events like White House press briefings “would severely intrude on the President’s prerogative to control the image he presents to the public,” part of a lawsuit seeking to require the White House to provide the services.​
Department of Justice attorneys haven’t elaborated on how doing so might hamper the portrayal President Donald Trump seeks to present to the public. But overturning policies encompassing diversity, equity and inclusion have become a hallmark of his second administration, starting with his very first week back in the White House.​
The National Association for the Deaf sued the Trump administration in May, arguing that the cessation of American Sign Language interpretation — which the Biden administration had used regularly — represented “denying hundreds of thousands of deaf Americans meaningful access to the White House’s real-time communications on various issues of national and international import.” The group also sued during Trump’s first administration, seeking ASL interpretation for briefings related to the COVID-19 pandemic.​
How petty can a person be! It hurts his image??

Is there a Christian political philosophy?

I think we have to recognize some nuances.

For sure, "...He removes kings, and sets up kings...."

That does not imply those kings are performing God's moral edicts given for His people to follow. It means kings and nations are merely God's means toward His eventual just, good, and eternal end.

Your point is correct, but in this discussion it raises the question of "What difference does that make?" with regard to how Christians respond to them. If we were to presume that it was actually Satan who put those rulers in place, we'd also have to say, "God allowed Satan to do so?"

So, what difference does it make in terms of our response to the dictates of those kings?

To the extent that those kings give commands that coincidentally fall in line with God's commands to us...fine.

I can give an answer, though, to my own question: "What difference does it make?"

What Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2:13 command is that Christians avoid rebellion and unnecessary social contention. We don't dispute local authorities on some basis of, "You're not the boss of me!"

Like any diplomat posted to a foreign nation, we follow the local laws and to the greatest extent possible we avoid being designated persona non grata for mere reason of being churlish.

I think the problem is that some translations make you think one becomes a priest or a king by matter of faith, but if you’ve actually read the Bible then it is clear that there is an order of succession in both offices, even if the cornerstone of it all, is faith in Christ of course.
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Ilhan Omar blasted over resurfaced comments on Somali influence in the US as Elon Musk suggests she committed treason

The Biden administration pushed as much toward a completely open border as they could get away with. Letting in 10 to 20 million people swamped our resources, the human trafficking skyrocketed to a level of slavery not seen since the civil war, 31% of the women who made the trip were sexually assaulted, only some of the children that went missing (62,000) have been rescued by this administration, many of them were in forced labor or sexual slavery, unvetted illegal criminals have committee horrible violent crimes, and more.

Source?
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Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday

There is no rest in Christ when we disobey Him. Those who enter into Christ rest ALSO cease from their works as God did Heb4:10 on the seventh day Heb4:4 Exo20:11 because the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God Exo20:10 it is the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa58:13 and the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke23:56

Rev 22: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Why if you read the next verse its the antidote to this situation. In contrast to God’s saints and what they do:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Not the faith in Jesus but of Jesus which is how He lived and what He taught and they keep God’s commandments Exo20:6 Exo31:18- His version, not what man edited He told us not to.

Ecc 3:14 I know that whatever God does, It shall be forever. Nothing can be added to it, And nothing taken from it. God does it, that men should fear before Him.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.

14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Rev 14: 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” Quoting Exo20:11 where God placed His seal


Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then
your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Only one group of people enter into His Kingdom


Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Once God blesses something man cannot take away Num23:20, because man is not God. They can disqualify themselves, but they cannot take away His blessings

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
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Zions New Children

What pretentious tripe!
Really?
What was it that led the Magi to Bethlehem to worship Jesus?
How did Saul of Tarsus meet Jesus?
Do you know how Constantine became a Christian? He saw the Chi-Rho sign in the clouds, had that sign painted, overnight, on the shields of his soldiers, and they won their battle the next day.

In addition to this, God spoke to OT Joseph in dreams, and to Joseph in the NT through dreams and an angel.
All could be said to be celestial signs.
I stand by how if a Prophecy can be literally fulfilled, then it will be.
But it was Jesus and the Apostles who told us if a prophecy was being fulfilled -you don't have that authority.

Incidentally;
We are now 40 days from the Day when the Lord could send His fiery wrath.
(Nov 4th 2025)
(Nov 13th 2025.)

did we miss something?
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Favorite verses or quotes

It’s been like 7 years since someone posted here, lol.

I like this verse right now. It’s not necessarily my favorite. I just like it.

John 10:37

“If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

I like that Jesus said that hey, you might not believe in who I am based on my words, but clearly my miracles are evidence for believing that I am God.

I might not have been able to see Jesus’ miracles, but the way the church rapidly spread in that day must be clear evidence for how amazing his miracles were, for the apostles to be so inspired to spread the message.
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Trump admin blocks $584 million to UCLA over antisemitism, civil rights allegations

The

Times Investigation: Ex-Trump DOJ lawyers say ‘fraudulent’ UC antisemitism probes led them to quit


  • Nine former DOJ attorneys investigating UC antisemitism told The Times they felt pressured to conclude that campuses had violated the civil rights of Jewish students and staff.
  • The attorneys resigned during the course of their UC assignments, some concerned that they were being asked to violate ethical standards.
Nine former Department of Justice attorneys assigned to investigate alleged antisemitism at the University of California described chaotic and rushed directives from the Trump administration and told The Times they felt pressured to conclude that campuses had violated the civil rights of Jewish students and staff.

In interviews over several weeks, the career attorneys — who together served dozens of years — said they were given the instructions at the onset of the investigations. All nine attorneys resigned during the course of their UC assignments, some concerned that they were being asked to violate ethical standards.

“Initially we were told we only had 30 days to come up with a reason to be ready to sue UC,” said Ejaz Baluch, a former senior trial attorney who was assigned to investigate whether Jewish UCLA faculty and staff faced discrimination on campus that the university did not properly address. “It shows just how unserious this exercise was. It was not about trying to find out what really happened.”

“We did have enough information from our investigation to warrant suing UCLA.” But Baluch said, “We believed that such a lawsuit had significant weaknesses.”

“To me, it’s even clearer now that it became a fraudulent and sham investigation,” another lawyer said.

Four attorneys said they were particularly troubled by two matters. First, they were asked to write up a “j-memo” — a justification memorandum — that explained why UC should face a lawsuit “before we even knew the facts,” one attorney said.

“Then there was the PR campaign,” the attorney said, referring to announcements beginning with a Feb. 28, 2025, press release saying investigators would be visiting UCLA, UC Berkeley, USC and seven other universities nationwide because the campuses “have experienced antisemitic incidents since October 2023.”

“Never before in my time across multiple presidential administrations did we send out press releases essentially saying workplaces or colleges were guilty of discrimination before finding out if they really were,” said one attorney, who requested anonymity for fear of retaliation.

The government has not sued UC.

But in August, the DOJ demanded that the university pay a $1.2-billion fine and agree to sweeping, conservative-leaning campus policy changes to settle federal antisemitism accusations. In exchange, the Trump administration would restore $584 million in frozen grant funding. At the time, Gov. Gavin Newsom called the proposal “extortion.”
A number of the lawsuits stemming from antisemitic acts on campus have already been settled in the court system, see the NPR article:

UCLA reaches $6 million settlement with Jewish students over campus protests​

"UCLA initially had argued that it had no legal responsibility over the issue because protesters, not the university, blocked Jewish students' access to areas. The university also worked with law enforcement to thwart attempts to set up new protest camps.
But U.S. District Judge Mark Scarsi disagreed and ordered UCLA to create a plan to protect Jewish students on campus. The University of California, one of the nation's largest public university systems, has since created systemwide campus guidelines on protests."
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

BTW, I will not be bothered by any of them, since not one of them will invalidate John 3-16
Exactly. He resorts to calling it a "cult" to believe in this verse because he and the ECT doctrine falls apart with it. They know they have to add to this verse to fit their doctrine.
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The 144,000

“Chief bridge builder,” not “Priest king”, in some cases held by the Emperor, for example, Julius Caesar held the office at a young age, but not necessarily. Archbishops Leo, whose unprompted intervention at Chalcedon inadvertently contributed to the schism between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, was the first of many Roman archbishops to use this title(they took the title of Pope, previously used exclusively by the Popes of Alexandria such as St. Alexander, St. Athanasius the Pillar of Orthodoxy and St. Cyril the Great, in the sixth century) including St. Gregory Diologos, whose Orthodox status is unquestioned.

Priests have absolutely no right to the office of priest-king. This is a royal title and reserved solely for Caesar or “Emperor” however in some cases Emperor is a lower title than Caesar.

The fact that Manuel I Komnenos may have claimed descent from St. John does not make it the case; all Orthodox sources I have agree St. John the Beloved Disciple was one of three members of the twelve who was celibate and unmarried, the others being his brother St. James the Great, and St. Thomas “the Twin” the Apostle to Edessa, Seleucia-Cstesiphon and India.

So thus far you’re proposing a “bloodline” from a celibate Christ to a celibate Apostle to the heir of the Byzantine Empire who was a member of the illustrious Komnenos dynasty, which was alas not the only dynasty to reign in Constantinople and not likely related to St. Constantine in any real sense; as far as heredity to Emperors before St. Constantine or St. Constantine’s heretical sons like Constantius, and Julian the Apostate (whose name is particularly apt in that he left Arianism to embrace neo-Platonism, which is to jump from tne frying pan into the fire, eschatologically, since the Arians deny Christ as the Incarnation of God and the latter deny him altogether, a bit like those driven by the modern day Jehovah’s Witnesses cult into atheism).

In the Latin version of things, JC adopted Augustus who then adopted Tiberius. So adoption is not ruled out.

On another note, Russian monarchs have claimed descend from Prus, a brother of Augustus. This is another way of how inheritance is passed on, that is, to the closest relative. It would also explain the existence of something called Prussia.

Constantine is not relevant to the foundations of Christianity so I’m just going to ignore that.
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I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

False as the day is long. You continue in your notion of man as prime mover in his deeds.
- False that man is the prime mover in his deed. So I am not able to make my own choice.
Still unproven assumption. You are only restating your definition here.
You indeed do WILL to do what you do, and that, by what you deem more advantageous or desirous.
- You will do what you do...by what you deem more more advantageous or desirous. Now I am the prime mover after all, therefore now my initial statement is true and somehow I can make my own choice..
Same. Still assuming the one necessarily means the other. You've proven nothing here.
You choose according to your inclinations.
- Again I am making a choice according to my inclinations. Further solidifying that my initial position is true.

So the second two sentences contradict the first.
They contradict only if you assume that choice by definition makes the chooser the prime mover.
I am not disputing cause. I am disputing the logical incoherence that causing something that you know the result of can result in any effect that is not pre-determined, and if it is pre-determined then it is logically incoherent to suggest that anyone besides the causer has any choice.
Wrong. But at least a small change in subject. That's refreshing.

God does not 'inhabit' this reality in the same way we do. He did not make something without knowing ahead what would come of it. This is not some experiment where mere "chance" has more causality than God, and God must risk his project on CHANCE. You do not consider yourself to be "self-existent" like God, yet somehow you consider yourself able to choose uncaused to do so. That is, to use your terminology, logical incoherence.

Mark Quayle said:
No, I do not claim that God does not (nor that he does) have that ability. I claim it is logical nonsense, a figment of the imagination, words playing in the mind of presumptuous humans.

I did not intend "the source of choice" there. I intended the source of the ability to choose Christ, and the source of salvific Faith

Oh, but you are making a claim. You just don't realize it.

Which is it? A or B?

A. I have a choice whether to follow God.
B. God already knows whether I will choose to follow him or not.
C. You will choose because you must. You cannot avoid it. And God knows what you will choose— knew it before the foundation of the world. Argue against the Bible, if you will: Have you not heard of the Biblical term, "the elect"? Do you think the "Bride of Christ" is a haphazard compilation of indeterminate members?
If God knows that I will follow him, then there is no reality where I will not follow him.
True
Conversely if he knows I will not follow him, then there is no reality where I do follow him.
Also true.
You cannot say both, because to quote from you, it is logical nonsense.
Not at all. Both are true statements. It is only logical nonsense that both would happen at the same time in the same way.

Further, he uses your choices to bring whichever reality about. The fact that from your POV the human doesn't know what will happen doesn't mean that it is not already determined. In fact, ha!, lately the scientific community is claiming that all of time already exists. No wonder they are struggling to come up with ways to explain how that can be true, if multiple options are actually all possible. They cannot admit to a proper definition of GOD.
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Gavin Newsom becomes a 'Christian nationalist'

My opinion on this article:

This article completely misconstrues and redefines Christian nationalism in a manner that is far more dangerous than the political reality it seeks to describe. By labeling Governor Newsom a "Christian nationalist" simply because he cites Scripture to support funding for social aid (feeding the hungry), the author is attempting to normalize and neutralize a specific political ideology. The widely recognized definition of Christian nationalism refers to the belief that the United States must be governed as an explicitly Christian nation, granting legal and political privilege to one religious identity, often threatening the constitutional principles of pluralism and the separation of church and state. The act of equating this specific political power structure with the simple act of any politician using their faith as a source of moral inspiration—regardless of party or policy—is a misleading rhetorical tactic. This redefinition is dangerous because it strips the term of its critical meaning, making it impossible to address the actual threat posed by those who seek to formally fuse state power with a narrow, exclusionary religious agenda.
Let us reason. Please.

Thanks for sharing.
Be blessed

Completely correct.

Newsome is pointing out that the Christian Nationalists have a log in their own eyes.
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DHS confirms arrest of Afghan man in Texas after bomb threat video surfaces online

Turns out the Hannukah party was primarily a children's event, with face painting, bubbles and food. A two month old was among the dead.

In the meantime, the killing is being celebrated by X users. In the following link, you can see how many times a "fire" emoji was used, that means they like terrorists shooting up children's events.

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Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

See previous.

Vacous claim on your part. Sorry. Not taking the appeal to separate lust from desire on any basis

Of course not, you must ignore the different meanings for Lust and Desire for your misinterpretation to survive. Yet, you’ve no evidence they mean the same and they do not.

Rather, you appeal to the Humpty Dumpty logic of “Alice in Wonderland.”

“When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

Simply, Desire is Not the same as Lust, not in the NT or OT.

Furthermore, your interpretation contradicts Paul’s declaration sin entered the world with Adam, which means Eve did not commit the sin of Lust prior.

Desire/lust

It doesn't take a leap of any scholastic sorts

Indeed. However, you have submitted no evidence for your interpretation.
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Lost

Looks like I am lost.
I have been searching for a while subconsciously, which is how I found my way here.
Tonight was too much, I asked God and Jesus into my life.

Nothing. I feel more alone than ever.
Hi Bob

I'm not sure what it is that you were hoping to feel. A relationship with Jesus starts with you admitting that you're powerless over the sin in your life and that it's destroying you. That's what brought you to the point where you are now. You bottomed out in the lies of the world and the sin that it promotes. The world told all of us the same lies. it said 'Just dive in and you'll be free', 'you'll have peace', and 'if you just have enough, you'll be satisfied'. 'You'll have life itself'. It feels like it's the truth in the beginning when you're young. But later when you begin to see the noticeable affects of sin it has already done a lot of damage. Probably more than you realize. It's a progression. Then it's just a question of when you will bottom out in the lies of the world. Some take it to their grave. I liken it to the alcoholic. It's similar in that it's a progression. We don't see the negative stuff right aways. But when we do, we usually just brush it aside until we can't any longer. The world promised you freedom, and gave you enslavement. It promised you peace, and gave you anxiety. It promised you fulfillment, and left you always longing for more. It promised you life, and gave you death.

Jesus frees you from that bondage. That real freedom. Freedom from the bondage of sin. It doesn't mean that the desires of the flesh are no longer going to whisper in your ear. It means that you now have the capability to say no. Jesus will give you peace. Even in the midst of a promised persecution, and life's difficulties, you'll have a peace beyond all understanding. We now, as Christian, put down our desires for the lies of the material world. They will always leave you wanting and needing more. Our sights are set on the work at hand and after, heaven, and all the promises that come with it and Him. We get life. Real life. Not just in eternity, but it begins right now. Jesus said that those who seek to save their lives will lose it, but those who lose their lives for His sake will find it.

Get into His Word and let Him feed you. If you're saved, you'll need the spiritual food as much, if not more than the physical food. I actually feel physically sick if I go too long without reading His Word. Start there. Repent, believe, and dig into His Word, and remember, the commands are there to protect you, mostly from yourself. Evidences are given to know if we are saved, not experiences. The sin is what is killing you. Jesus gave you the power to get rid of it. I suggest that you take advantage of that power or nothing will change.

Follow hard after Him and He will not let you down.

I'll leave you with this quote by an old theologian by the name of Spurgeon.

"It is ever the Holy Spirit's work to turn our eyes away from self to Jesus; but Satan's work is just the opposite of this, for he is constantly trying to make us regard ourselves instead of Christ. He insinuates, "Your sins are too great for pardon; you have no faith; you do not repent enough; you will never be able to continue to the end; you have not the joy of his children; you have such a wavering hold of Jesus." All these are thoughts about self, and we shall never find comfort or assurance by looking within. But the Holy Spirit turns our eyes entirely away from self: he tells us we are nothing, but that "Christ is All in All." Remember, therefore, it is not your hold of Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not your joy in Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not even faith in Christ, thought that be the instrument--it is Christ's blood and merits; therefore, look not so much to your hand with which you art grasping Christ, as to Christ; look not to your hope, but to Jesus, the source of your hope; look not to your faith, but to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith. We shall never find happiness by looking at our prayers, our doings, or our feelings; it is what Jesus is, not what we are, that gives rest to the soul. If we would at once overcome Satan and have peace with God, it must be by "looking unto Jesus." Keep your eye simply on him; let his death, his sufferings, his merits, his glories, his intercession, be fresh upon your mind; when you wake in the morning look to him; when you lie down at night look to him. Do not let your hopes and fears come between you and Jesus; follow hard after him, and he will never fail you.""

Dave
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Concerns About the Foundations of the Gentile Christian Movement in Acts 15

building Gods Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven
Which the Gentile top heavy religion eventually built in man's own image, rejecting the Kingdom itself for allying itself with the Empire. We can't have it both ways.
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