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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

I am comforted to know that there are others like me - Now, what about salvation?

I am comforted to read that others are like me with my OCD and doubt of salvation. I just read the post “Constant Thoughts of Condemnation with No Hope” by 333grace, and the responses. This makes me feel better: not that people have problems but that I am not alone in this OCD-Salvation thing. It actually gives me, at least briefly, at the moment, some hope.

I see two arguments, one for my salvation and the other against it. For my salvation: I have dozens or hundreds of times tried to turn to Christ and in sincerity say, “Take me!” That is what a Christian friend of mine (now in heaven) said ONCE, and he was saved from then on. I think I mean it. I think that possibly, in a sincere moment and action such as that, Jesus saves a person. Even if the sinner, like me, turns away from Christ at the very next moment. Even if the sinner’s faith wavers so severely that they can turn to Christ at one moment and away the next. Jesus saves in a moment and He does not waver. Ephesians 1:13 says that those who HAVE trusted Christ, past tense, have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise. James 1:17 says that in God there is no variation or shadow of turning.

Against my salvation: I wonder if, in my heart of hearts, I have a death-grip on myself and will not let go. If my self has a death-grip on the throne of my life and will not give it to Jesus for REAL. In this case, all my “turnings to Christ” are pantomimes and I do not REALLY give my heart to Jesus. I just go through the motions and say the words. In this case, even though I know I am heading for hell and even though I really do want eternal life, my SELF has a grip on me that will not let go, no matter what.

One person on the thread I mentioned said that once, God interacted supernaturally with them and gave them assurance. I think it might take that to convince me of my salvation. OTOH, Satan could give someone a supernatural experience to fool them.

Can anyone relate? Please pray for me and I’ll pray for you.

The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

No one. It evolves naturally.
I think this is unreal. We know theres a continual power struggle with groups maneuvering to influence and socially engineer society to how they want it ordered. Even the church does this lol.

Especially in modern times with legacy media and social media. Even small groups can have a major influence of the direct of polcies and society. Its a bit like sales and marketing. Manipulating people to come around to certain ideas.

The whole 'Long March through the Institutions was a socially engineered revolution to undermine and change the social order. Look what happened when it spilt into mainstream society around early 2000's. That was not natural. That was socially engineered through media, and ideologies pushed within institutions and government agencies.
The US absolutely was not. I can't say about the other nations, and frankly I don't care.
So what were the social norms based on during most of the 20th century. What was the basis for say the anti abortion laws or the marriage laws before they changed around the 1960's and 70's. Coincidently the same time soon after the cultural revolutions that formed the catalyst for those changes that were held by society for generations.

But what was the basis for these social norms and laws.

You don't have to have a State sanctioned religion to have religious foundation to social norms and laws. The west came out of the same empire that birth Christianity as opposed to Islam or Hinduism. This is our heritage.

Western nations are more Christian that Muslim, Hindu or other religions. We draw upon Christian social norms and not Islam or pagan or no belief at all.
Simple reality is beyond your comprehension? Perhaps you should stick to Aussie politics. Your understanding of US politics and history is extremely poor.
My understanding of humans is far superior to yours. You may know physics and I give you that credit. But I know the behavioural sciences.
The US government does not regulate belief and nothing in that paragraph even argues counter to that.
Yes it does. You just don't understand it. If laws and policies are underpinned by morals. They they are also underpinned by beliefs because morality is a belief. Comes from a philosophical belief.

So the State has to make a moral and belief determination about the polcies they allow or don't allow. To allow abortion is a moral and belief position. To make laws on any social isse involves a moral and belief determination.

When the State says that a religious or any group pray or protest in certain places due to protecting a polciy they have allowed which relates to a moral or belief issue. They are taking a moral and belief position against those they deny and siding with those with the opposing moral and belief position.

Like I said its unreal to have two or more opposing moral and belief systems with equal status at the same time in the same society. One will be denied over the other an dwhne the State sides with one side they are taking a moral and belief position over another. The State cannot govern with a moral and belief position. If its not for God then its against Him.
To use your example of abortion, changing the legal status one direction or the other does not change the *beliefs* people have about it. There were major changes a couple years ago and my belief didn't change.
But each timer it does change it is declaring one moral and belief position about abortion is it not. If the State is anti abortion then its denying the beliefs and morals of pro abortionist and choice. If it makes abortions legal then its sideing against the belief that abortion is wrong. It cannot take a neutral position.
No wonder you think it is a strange mix, you are mixing things up in your head.
Where else are you going to mix them lol. You have to so you can imagine the scenario. Its like saying Catholics and Communist is a strange mix.
It is still back and forth between some stream or strength of left and of right.
Yes of course, thats obvious in that the government changes between the Left and the Right of politics. I am saying its become more polarised so that when there is a change from Left to Right its far more dramatic.

Far more potentially damaging because if the differences are so polarised then they are major differences in polcies that have major effects. We are seeing this played out with the rising political violence.

If the Left is correct then we went from sleepy Joe to Hitler overnight and now democracy and the lives of many are under threat and we are entering Fascism.

If the Right is correct the US has been saved from an era of identity politics and all the chaos it caused.

So its not just a little swing back and forth like in the past. Its a major difference and thats why political tensions and violence are rising. But its not just the US as its most western nations. Look at Britain and parts of Europe. The same extreme Left and Right identity divide over issues like immigration and race and gender ect.
The Christian Right declared war on American culture a few decades ago.
Yes its been brewing for decades now since the cultural revolutions. The cultural revolutions were a reaction against the establishment which was basically the church. The Christian and other religious nationalist groups was a reaction to the counter culture revolutions.

The academic ideologues who engineered the critical theories and Woke PC was a reaction against the Christian Right and now well who knows.

It seems its the Rights turn but at the same time the Left are not giving in. It seems we have been through the back and forth struggle for decades and now its escalted into a war over political ideology with religion mixed in. With all sorts of stuff mixed in. Its a mess.
I'm not interested in your persecution complex projection. This is pathetic Steve, you are projecting your self into persecution in a country where you don't live and there is no such persecution.
So now your tripling down on denying the current situations for Christians. If this was any other group people would at least acknowledge that when they say that they are been affected that they are at least acknowledge. Your not even doing that. Just falling back on typical stereotypes and assumptions that Christians are always complaining.

You don't have to be an American to understand the culture and what is happening. To hear the experiences of people and what they are going through. Besides you often coment on my nation. Its double standards.

Looks like we have to go to some independent evidence.

Hostility Towards Christianity Increasing in U.S. and Europe, Experts Warn

Charlie Kirk’s Killing Has Left Other Political Influencers Reeling
Here in the US we have entered a month-long season dominated by a Christian religious claim. That isn't anti-Christian persecution. Not in the slightest.
Give me a break, you sound like a politician.
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Trump, lawyer fined $1M for harassing Hillary Clinton

Hank, you should have realized this about @Aryeh Jay a long time ago. ^_^

It's easier when that guy jay posts a lot from home or school. Now he's south of the Gulf of America on a Navy ship doing absolutely nothing, just sitting here watching the clouds. But he doesn't post a lot for some reason. Here's a cool picture of clouds from yesterday evening.
1000012478.jpg
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The Electrical Nature of the Universe

My point in this thread, is that the sun; our life giver, is also the means whereby our modern civilization will be destroyed.
God Promised He would never again use water to reset mans ungodly inclinations, but many Prophesies clearly state the Lord will use fire next time. From the sun. Isaiah 30:26a
A huge Coronal Mass Ejection is the only thing which can literally fulfil all the descriptions about that terrible Day.
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Elijah Comes First

Systemd: proudly encouraging migrations to FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD and Illumos since 2010
I have been seriously looking at the BSDs. If they had a ‘live’ USB installer I could find I’d have done it already. I’d probably find it more like the old old Red Hat than those systemd junk. Don’t get me started on Gnome. And my oldest grandson is fascinated by xscreensaver, which requires the X windowing system that Fedora is dumping for Wayland. So no xscreensaver for Fedora using Gnome any more. Mate still uses x windows but the writing is on the wall. Mate for now but Fedora is losing me.

Oh well. Linux was my second OS after starting with Finder 4.5 in the old Mac OS. OSX was my third OS and Windows my fourth. I only have a laptop running Windows because of work, often setting it up for remote access. The remote engineers mostly couldn’t figure out how to navigate a desktop that wasn’t Windows 10.

We had Vespers last night at church, something they are doing for the Sundays of Advent. I said I would be there next week. The deacon in charge said “God willing, He may return before then.” I think many of us are awaiting Elijah. It’s not solely an academic interest. Praying we can be faithful until that day.
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Scientists find coastal seas acidifying shockingly fast

So who is going to be the one to tell China and India to stop polluting the Earth?
The finger pointing at others, so that the own responsibility can be avoided.

Let me show a few graphs. Because I love fact based discussions.

1764577782910.png


China as a country is indeed the biggest emitter of CO2 currently. India, which you single out too, emits currently 2.6 billion ton of CO2, while the USA is emitting 5.67 billion ton. Annually. So the USA emits double the amount of CO2 and this even despite the fact that there are more Indians than Americans.

If we look at the emissions per capita, then the graph becomes even more staggering.

An American citizen emits 14 ton CO2 per year, a Chinese 8 ton, an Indian 2.2 ton per year. Every American pollutes as much as 7 Indians.

1764577823955.png

source: CO₂ and Greenhouse Gas Emissions

China invests in renewables, massively. According to the IAE:

According to the IEA:

Chinese investments in energy remained extremely strong, accounting for one-third of clean energy investments worldwide and an important share of China’s overall GDP growth. China has announced dual carbon goals – to peak carbon emissions before 2030 and achieve carbon neutrality before 2060 – and has shown remarkable progress in adding renewable capacity. In 2023, China commissioned as much solar PV as the entire world did in 2022 while its wind additions also grew by 66% year-on-year. Over the past five years, China also added 11 GW of nuclear power, by far the largest of any country in the world.”

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What's the weather like where you are? (10)

Meanwhile there are extremes in the West of Australia and the south east, which is having wintry conditions on the first day of summer.

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Beware of Catholic AI

I have found YouTube videos that appear real but are stating questionable things. Like bishop Barren giving a talk saying priests can be married and the celibacy rule is lifted
If we rely on AI or YouTube videos alone, we can be deceived. I always check the Vatican news to see what the magisterium is really teaching

I would say AI is dangerous in that it can be used to deceive by looking so offical yet be so wrong sometimes.
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Amnesia

Who will we be? Who should we see now as being the real us instead of these failed creations struggling to self=justify our ways? The elohim (spirits) failed God. Humans (flesh) failed God. Who will we be to reverse that failure?
We will be the Sons of God.

What is your point?—that's what I want to know. I'm not trying to debate you or criticize. I'm trying to understand why you went there.
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Can an OCD person ever get assurance?

I have been struggling with OCD and struggling with the gospel for decades. I ask the question because of what I read in a book on Christians with OCD. The book is called Strivings Within by Mitsy VanCleeve. The author talks about how the author of Pilgrim’s Progress, John Bunyan, centuries ago, apparently had OCD. I have read about him and how he kept doubting his salvation and having other struggles. VanCLeeve said that he eventually gave up trying to seek assurance. He decided that come heaven, come hell, he was for ‘venturing all for the name of Christ.’ She said that only by making this decision was he able to continue ‘serving His Lord.’ This jives with other advice I’ve read which says that OCD people must learn to live with the OCD and its uncertainty.

If all of the above is true, then OCD people can never get assurance of salvation, right?. Yet one author I read said that your spiritual life will never really take off until you have assurance.
The OCD people I have known in this life are very varied, though they have much in common, too. For the most part, I have found them very intelligent, able to reason well.

One thing I can suggest, is to pursue Christ with all your might, with all your will, with all your heart. Get to know him, spend hours praying, reading, without demanding he answer your questions. Get to know him and you may find, in his timing, that your life is about him, for better or for worse. And that for that, he is to be praised. You belong to him.
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

I'm not saying that it can be both, but that it can be neither, or maybe, better, that there may be a perspective/understanding that encompasses both.

Your descriptions are dependent on some form of time passage. And we don't know how to think otherwise, so I think that is partly why the terminology of Scripture. But when one looks at the attributes of God —particularly his singularity of purpose —his Aseity— and his Omnipotence and Sovereignty, we have to conclude that time is only one of his "inventions", one of his tools, and not necessarily something that governs the life/death to come, which is his economy —his realm.

When I consider that Christ took our punishment for us, I have to conclude that he suffered EVERYTHING we would have, not just temporal torment and death, but the torments of hell for every one of us who have our sin forgiven. He 'survived' it because he is God. "Hell could not hold him". I can't say that my conclusions are accurate —much less my descriptions— but I think there is something to them: That what happened to him, and to everyone of the reprobate, is a matter of what we in this life might term, "INTENSITY", where time passage does not apply. In this, complete destruction is going to happen, and is never over with (because there is no time passage), yet not ongoing in the sense that "time" would imply. Their hopelessness, anguish, despair, pain, regret, anger, hatred for God all "at once" knowing what it is to have lost all virtue with which we once knew them here, lost it because God has abandoned them.
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Hymn "O Come O Come Emmanuel"

Whether or not the hymn is cliche for the Advent season, it never fails to move me. I love it :purpleheart:
I'm not a Roman Catholic, so I hope I am not breaking forum rules by answering. I like that hymn, too, as it looks back to the first coming of Jesus at Bethlehem, and forward to His glorious Second Coming. I especially like this verse:

"O come, O Branch of Jesse's stem,
unto your own and rescue them!
From depths of hell your people save,
and give them victory o'er the grave."
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Why do people hate ICE...

Miscarriages, infections, neglect: The pregnant women detained by ICE

Until last year, Congress required reports on the pregnant, postpartum or nursing women in ICE custody, including ‘detailed justification’ for their detention. This requirement no longer exists, Kelly Rissman reports​

[oversight is one of those words that mean its own opposite]​

Despite an ICE directive generally prohibiting the detention of pregnant women, Alicia was held there for three months.

About a month after she was detained, Alicia began experiencing severe abdominal pain, vaginal discharge, cramping, and bleeding. She was taken to a nearby emergency room in shackles. There, she underwent an invasive medical procedure, without her consent, according to the letter.

she remained at the facility for two more months. Unrelenting symptoms - bleeding, swelling, foul-smelling vaginal discharge and excruciating pain — persisted. The pain became so severe that she struggled to sleep.

It wasn’t until Alicia was deported in July that she was able to obtain antibiotics to treat the vaginal infection she’d developed from the miscarriage that had gone untreated while in ICE custody.

Data, available from a patchwork of media, lawsuits and Congressionalreports, suggests dozens of pregnant, postpartum and nursing women have been detained so far this year. [But we don't know since Congress did not renew that required reporting.]

Good Lord, why are we holding people for 3 months? If they are illegal, it shouldn't take three months to ship them out. And we absolutely are responsible to see they get the medical care they need. It's unconscionable that they don't.
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Relative of Trump Press Secretary taken by ICE

Those who commit crimes get expedited deportation. If you're not familiar with the DACA then you're just speaking from ignorance.
I was strictly speaking about general deportations. And generally it doesn't matter if you are a good person or a bad person. If you are here illegally you are subject to deportation. Period.
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Trump Says US Will Permanently Pause Migration From 'Third World Countries'

Don't know why anyone would want to campaign for welfare leeches (people capable of supporting themselves), and an overflow of illegal immigrants, or an overflow of immigrants period. Do they honestly think that creates a good society?
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