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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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The Reality of Free Will
- By childeye 2
- Christian Scriptures
- 284 Replies
CoreyD said:
The Bible says Adam was not deceived.
Thus Adam acted on his own free will.
The word “will” in “acted on his own free will” is grammatically a noun. It is the head of the noun phrase “his own free will”, which serves as the object of the preposition “on”.
By syntactic rule, verbs cannot function as prepositional objects, adjectives cannot serve as heads of noun phrases, and adverbs cannot be modified by adjectives like free. The structure --> determiner (his) + adjectives (own, free) + noun (will) — is a standard noun phrase. Therefore, “will” here is unambiguously a noun meaning volition or choice, not a verb, adjective, or adverb.
I don't know what strawman you are referring to. You posted the op, not me. The fault I see lies in conflating Greek morphology with English syntax. Hekousios is an adjective in Greek, meaning “voluntary.” In English, “free will” is a noun phrase: determiner (his) + adjectives (own, free) + noun (will). When you post a scriptural verse with a term that is an adjective meaning freewill/voluntary offering you seem to think it proves we have free wills meaning autonomous.
Prepositions like 'on' require a noun phrase as their object, so will here --> "Adam acted on his own free WILL", must be a noun. Translators often shift adjectives into nouns when the target language requires it (e.g., dikaios → righteousness). So the Greek root explains the meaning, but it doesn’t change the English grammar. That’s why your accusation doesn’t hold — the categories are being mixed.
Your chalk vs. charcoal analogy doesn’t work. Chalk and charcoal are two different substances.
But 'WILL' in English is one word with multiple grammatical functions. The question isn’t about confusing two unrelated things — it’s about identifying which function 'WILL' takes in a given sentence.
In “acted on his own free will”, the preposition 'on' requires a noun phrase, and free+will forms exactly that. Adjectives can’t head prepositional objects, and verbs can’t be modified by adjectives like free. So unlike chalk vs. charcoal, where you’d be misidentifying the material, here the grammar itself dictates that will is a noun. The fault lies in conflating Greek adjective roots with English noun usage, NOT in my analysis.
First allow me to point out an error --> You said this: ... everything God does is governed by love,, yet God chose to love his people freely - voluntarily.
If God’s love were merely a voluntary choice, then His essence would be contingent. But Scripture says “God IS love.” Love is not something He sometimes chooses, it's His eternal nature. Hosea’s “I will love them freely” means His love is sovereign and unmanipulated, not optional. To reduce God’s love to voluntariness is to deny His essence. And if that were true, God would not be God.
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Childeye 2 says --> "it's my contention that Love fulfills the law and it is love that causes us to act responsibly and care about how our actions affect others, not our ability to volunteer or not volunteer"
CoreyD: I cannot even make sense of that. Can you make sense of it, and break it down for us?
Answer: The Spirit of Love precedes any action of love. Without Love, an action cannot truly be moral, because morality requires caring how our actions affect others. Voluntary is a neutral term. Voluntary may describe the manner of action, but love is the foundation. Without love, there is no morality --> only indifference. Moreover, wanting to volunteer requires a want. Voluntariness doesn’t stand alone, it’s always driven by some desire. If that desire is love, the act is moral. If it’s carnal selfishness, the act may be immoral. That shows voluntariness itself is morally empty; love or lack of love is what determines morality/immorality.
But that’s exactly my point: voluntariness is redundant. God/Love makes people willing to do what is good.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The moral foundation is love, not voluntariness. Free will adds nothing to the explanation that it’s love that precedes and determines whether the action is moral or immoral. Voluntariness only describes the act after love has already moved the person to volunteer.
I don’t accept the false premise that free will simply means voluntariness. Voluntariness describes the manner of an act, but free will is about autonomy, the supposed ability to do otherwise. My point is that morality doesn’t depend on either. Love precedes and determines whether an action is moral. Without love, voluntariness and free will are both redundant.
Children of God are led by the Spirit of Truth. Children of the devil are led by lies. That distinction itself denies voluntariness as the foundation of morality, because truth is knowledge, not an option.
We need terms like Truth and faith to cleanse the mind.
Why “Truth and faith” matter
- Truth: knowledge revealed by God, not an option or decision. It denies voluntariness as the foundation of morality.
- Faith: trust in God’s Spirit of Truth. It is the posture of dependence, not autonomous choice.
- Together, they cleanse the mind — they reframe the discussion away from voluntariness and toward divine reality.
See here: The children of God are led by The Spirit of Truth according to faith:
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
John 3:21 — “He that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” → Works are wrought in God, not chosen voluntarily.
John 8:32 — “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” → Freedom comes from knowing truth, not from voluntariness.
Romans 8:4 — “…that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” → Fulfillment of the law comes only by being led by the Spirit of Truth, not by voluntariness.
John 16:13 — “When He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.” → The Spirit of Truth guides, not voluntariness.
I don't know why you're bringing this up. I have never denied the meaning of hekousios. “Yes, hekousios means deliberate, voluntary action. But Scripture shows that even deliberate acts can be sinful if they reject truth (Hebrews 10:26). The decisive issue is not voluntariness but truth. Truth is knowledge, not an option and only those led by the Spirit of Truth fulfill the law (Romans 8:4, John 16:13). Voluntariness adds nothing once truth and love and faith are admitted as the cause.”It's not an "ability to volunteer".
Something done voluntarily, willingly, unforced, of one's own accord, or of free will, is a deliberate action - an "exercise of will (verb), done freely", which is part of a decision making process, or choice. The root (hek-) of hekousios emphasizes intentional, deliberate action
I don't know why you think my reasoning is faulty. Do You understand that voluntariness is morally neutral? Do you think I'm saying God's Love is working in people who are unwilling to love?
You cite nedabah/nadab, which literally refers to voluntary offerings --> rams, goats’ hair, and other work in Exodus 35. Yet you say we’re not talking about volunteering or offering up a ram. The offerings in Exodus were for building the Tabernacle and its furnishings, consecrated to God’s dwelling among Israel. They were voluntary in manner but mandatory in purpose, showing that voluntariness is descriptive, while truth, love, and faith are the foundation of righteousness.
In Exodus 35:21, the offerings are called “willing” because the heart and spirit were stirred -->The people in Exodus 35 acted out of faith, not because people sat down to freely deliberate whether to be stirred or not.
In Hebrews 10:26, “willful sin” shows voluntariness can describe rebellion too. That proves voluntariness is morally neutral.
Scripture consistently grounds righteousness in truth, love, and faith through the Spirit of Truth (Romans 8:4; John 16:13), not in voluntariness.
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High School Principal Accused Of Plotting Anti-ICE Terrorist Attack
- By Valletta
NEW: High School Principal Accused Of Plotting Anti-ICE Terrorist Attack
An assistant principal in Virginia and his brother were arrested at an airport en route to Las Vegas, where they were allegedly traveling to meet with “like-minded individuals” and plan ambush-style attacks on U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers. John Bennett, 54, and Mark...
trendingpoliticsnews.com
There's been a lot of violence by like-minded people, and judges need to start giving long prison sentences out as a deterrent to others.
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