Kathleen30 said:

Well Dave to me as scripture states Satan certainly doesn’t has the power to foresee the future. He certainly not he able to inform about NASA and Albert Einstein in Luther’s time. But he certainly knows how to instigate people to do do his bidding from generation to generation . But NASA certainly had some bad asses working for them like Jack Parsons who stabilised rocket fuels and made rocketry more reliable . He was into everything wife swapping, sex orgies and very much involved with the occult the OTO. Alister Crowley and Rex Hubbard from memory who was the future founder of Scientology all knew each other. Einstein was a bad ass too : ) View attachment 374289 View attachment 374290

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I agree that Satan does not have the power or knowledge to prophesy the future, and that there are some evil people working in most institutions. What I don't agree with is the idea that NASA as an organisation is especially evil or devilish.

2PhiloVoid said:

And you would be extremely wrong to think that philosophy is, in whole, mutually exclusive to Christian theology.

You might want to keep in mind that, actually, the undertaking of biblical systematic theology REQUIRES the application of some points of the wide (very, very wide) field of Philosophy.

You would be right to say that I don't hold to Sola Scriptura, and I'd go on record to in fact say that in order to be saved, no one needs to. God is bigger than the rag tag collection of letters and books we call the New Testament, after all, and I'll continue to take my measures for what constitutes 'good theology' from many Christian scholars (and ministers) rather than ................... only one local minister.

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I agree with some of what you write, and contest the rest. I learned a long time ago to read everything I can get on hands on. But the historic fact is that the Bible is the only reliable source. That's where I base my confidence, because it is the word of God. And many upon many facts back this up.

But I am interested on how you base your truth claim if you have no core standard to rely upon. It seems to me that you rely on bias self-assuring feelings rather than on facts presented in Scripture.

FutureAndAHope said:

I know I am going to step on a lot of toes by saying this. But as Christians are we not supposed to be subject to the ordinances of man. The whole COVID rebellion in my opinion makes Christians look bad in the eyes of the world and makes people mistrust Christians.

Rom 13:1-2 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

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According to your statement, in atheistic China, all Christians should submit to the communist party. In Nazi Germany, all Christians should submit to the National Socialist party. Do they make any sense??

No.
So is the COVID rebellion necessarily bad? Not necessarily.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

What is unusual about this thread is that, twenty years ago, when I used to debate with Democrats and liberals, they often held similar views. I never imagined that one day I would be debating these topics with registered Republicans.

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I'm actually a registered democrat, who happens to be a die-hard Trump supporter.

Yarddog said:

It takes two to tango. Combatants is defined as "a person or nation engaged in fighting during a war." In this case, it's only Americans involved. Venezuela isn't at war with the US. That means that the people on the boats weren't combatants, since they are not at war with America.

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From 2004 to 2018 the US conducted hundreds of airstrikes against terrorist operations in Pakistan, without being at war with Pakistan.

In the same way the US is conducting airstrikes against Narco-terrorist operations coming out of or within Venezuela, without being at war with Venezuela.

RDKirk said:

This is about BRICS

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But wait, it's Brazil that's part of BRICS, not Venezuela.

truthuprootsevil said:

Nuclear weaponry most definitely

Zechariah 14:12

And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite the people that have fought against Jerusalem; their flesh still consume away while they stand on their feet, their eyes will consume away in their holes, and their tongues shall consume away in their mouths.

Sounds like the immediate effects of nuclear weaponry. And I noticed that some of the newer translations use the word rot, and there is a difference in rot and being consumed away while you stand on your feet, while standing on your feet means immediate action.

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But it is the Lord Who is said in Zechariah 14:12. Are you saying that God "most definitely" uses nuclear weapons?

Jipsah said:

Eternal torture, without mercy and without hope? Infinite punishment for finite crimes? That's isn't justice, that's simply cruelty for its own sake. The doctrine paints God as a monster, pitiless and infinitely cruel, condemning the majority of those He created to literally endless torture. No "Father, forgive them" anymore. it's "burn baby burn!" That's what y'all teach.

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Your argument is built on emotion, not Scripture. You speak as though God is required to share your definition of justice. But if a human court can sentence someone to life imprisonment for a single crime, why is it “monstrous” for the holy Judge of all the earth to execute eternal judgment for a lifetime of willful rebellion against infinite holiness?

You say eternal punishment is “cruelty for its own sake.” That simply reveals how lightly you treat sin and how small you think God is. The cross itself disproves your accusation. Christ bore wrath so severe that He sweat blood. That is how serious sin is. That is how great the sacrifice was. Your view doesn’t magnify God’s mercy, it trivializes it.
And no, hell is not “burn baby burn.” It is the solemn, righteous judgment of a God who has given every warning, every chance, and even His own Son. People step over the blood of Christ to get there.

If someone raped and murdered a member of your family, you would not call a life sentence “monstrous”. You would call it light and you would want more. Yet when the infinitely holy God judges the unrepentant who trample His grace for a lifetime, suddenly justice becomes “cruelty.”

The problem isn’t God’s justice. The problem is your standard.

I am not intending today, in this writing, to go into the full story of Judas’ betrayal of Jesus, and of Jesus’ false arrest, his mock trial, his beatings, and his ultimate death on a cross to take away our sins and to give us the hope of eternal life with God. You can read all the details of that in the gospels, if you would like. For what I believe the Lord is leading me to do today is to look at the subject of betrayal in our world and in the church today, at the hands of those who are deliberately betraying both Christ and his followers.

So, I Googled a definition of what it means to betray someone, and I believe this covers the subject well. This is what Google’s AI rendered:


So, who are some of those who betray Jesus Christ and those of us who are followers of Christ today? Some (or many) of them are pastors of churches (or what are falsely called “churches”), while some (or many) others are politicians and government heads. Others are those who profess faith in Jesus Christ, who claim to know him as their Savior and Lord, but who betray both Christ and the body of Christ through lies, deceptions, disloyalty, infidelity, and false claims of living righteous and holy lives, pleasing to God.

When they want to make a good impression on someone of faith, they might put on a performance of godliness and holiness, as though they are living the life that God has designed for them to live, but while, in truth, they are living the opposite of that, in practice. They are like the Pharisees who put on a good show outwardly but while inwardly they are full of all kinds of evil and wicked deeds. For they want to be thought well of by those who don’t know the difference. But their performance does not match their actions.

But there is another way in which this betrayal is taking place in the world and in the church today, and it is deadly. And it is through people taking Scriptures out of context, and twisting them to say what they do not say if taught in the correct biblical context, and by them teaching a twisted and altered “gospel” message which makes no requirements of sinners to repent of (turn from) their sins to now follow Jesus in surrender to his will in walks of obedience to his commands, but while promising them life in heaven.

They are not only lying to the people, but they are betraying their trust by teaching them lies and while (willfully and deliberately, in many cases) they ignore the truth in the Scriptures which teach what they do not want to hear, and what they will not accept. Thus, many people are professing faith in Jesus Christ, believing that their sins are forgiven and heaven is their eternal destiny, but who never deny self, die to sin, or follow Jesus Christ in walks of obedience to his commands, living to please God with their lives.

And Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

For by God-gifted faith in Jesus Christ, which is not of our own doing, we are crucified with Christ in death to sin and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin but as slaves to righteousness in walks of obedience to God’s commands. We are no longer to permit sin to reign in our mortal bodies to make us obey its desires. For if sin is what we obey, it results in death. But if obedience to God is what we obey, it results in sanctification, and its end is eternal life with God (see Romans 6:1-23).

So, we need to be discerning people who are not gullible and easily persuaded by others who call themselves “Christians” or “Pastors.” For not everyone is who they say they are, doing what they say they are doing, or not doing. Liars, and those who willfully deceive others, abound. And we should be students of the Scriptures who study them for ourselves, under the direction of the Holy Spirit, who do not rely on others to tell us the truth. For many teach lies, and many betray, and not all can be trusted.

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

For Our Nation

An Original Work / September 11, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Recording Via Gerry Peters, music producer and arranger

Bombs are bursting. Night is falling.
Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.
Trust Him with your life today.
Make Him your Lord and your Savior.
Turn from your sin. Follow Jesus.
He will forgive you of your sin;
Cleanse your heart, made new within.

Men betraying: Our trust fraying.
On our knees to God we’re praying,
Seeking God to give us answers
That are only found in Him.
God is sovereign over all things.
Nothing from His mind escaping.
He has all things under His command,
And will work all for good.

Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.

Men deceiving: We’re believing
In our Lord, and interceding
For our nation and its people
To obey their God today.
He is our hope for our future.
For our wounds He offers suture.
He is all we need for this life.
Trust Him with your life today.

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Those Who Betray
An Original Work / December 11, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

I like 1 & 6 best. However, your poll only shows 5 choices for me?

Great book BTW.

We all get resurrected but only those who do the Will of the Father, like Jesus, will find a place in the Kingdom. Little children already trust in their parent, as must we

d taylor said:

because they have never believed in Jesus for Eternal Life and received God's free gift of His life.

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BobRyan said:

Q: Who changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

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this is a loaded question. The Sabbath is not Sunday. Sunday is not the Sabbath (so please stop presenting it this way). if you ask AI that question, it's going to give you an answer based on your prompting (which has a bias) and give you a bunch of information of how history records events that are consistent with the language you used.

Where there are historical claims that Sunday is the new sabbath, we need to approach those claims critically, just as we need to approach claims on whether keeping Sabbath law is still a value in Christian living also critically. I see questions like this framed in a sort of strawman approach with the goal of discrediting the value of gathering on Sunday, which really has nothing to do with the issue. The greater question is whether keeping Sabbath law is a requirement in Christian living nor if Sunday is better. if that answer is a yes, then the value for any other day is a moot point and settled immediately. If that answer is a no, then we may start to discuss values for other days, and if they too have a requirement or if the very notion of a requirement itself is counter-gospel. But NT teaching doesn't establish a commandment for any day to meet on the 7th or the 1st and it would be futile to argue this point. Of course, we see establishing customs in the NT for both the 7th day and the 1st day teaching/gathering but neither establishes these as commandments. If Rev 1:10 points to the Sabbath or to Sunday, it also doesn't establish this. These are reported matter-of-factly without embedded moral implications or commandments.

Using the NT to preach a 10 commandment system is counter-gospel and requires inserting that idea into the text. Hebrews 8:13 settles the matter, saying the old covenant has been made obsolete. the 10 are this old covenant, Deut 4:12 explicitly tells us this. Read all of chapters 4 and 5, These events of the 10 being proclaimed at the foot of the mountain through blazing fire and lightning, as Deut 4/5 tells us, are recorded in Exodus 20. This is before the tablets, and many laws follow this, Ex 24 (still before the tabelts) is a blood covenant that includes the 10 but also all these other commandments explicitly told from the mouth of God, this is the formal covenant agreement first established. This covenant was reestablished after the golden calf event with new tablets, but it's not a different covenant. the bible never bifurcates law, torah or this covenant. There is only one, not multiple competing covenants, and the bible teaches this covenant has been made obsolete (Heb 8:13)

Aftermath of Saturday's eruptive episode:



includes a mp of new tephra deposits.

President Trump has issued a new deadline for President Zelensky to sign the U.S.-backed peace deal with Russia, giving him days, some say until Christmas Day to sign the agreement.
"US President Donald Trump's envoys have given Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a fresh deadline to respond to Washington's proposed peace plan, unnamed officials told the Financial Times. The officials said Zelenskyy has only "days" to reply, even as the Ukrainian leader insists he will not accept any deal that redraws Ukraine's borders." MSN

Trump also criticized the European Union's efforts in influencing what was a US plan in which they seem to be urging Zelensky to take a hard stand against giving up any territorial concessions to secure a peace agreement. It seems that the EU wants to 'trump' the Presidents peace negotiations and impose a more comprehensive security protection for Ukraine and piece-meal annexation such as the Sudetenland by Germany which was a cause of WWII. But much as they dont want such a capitulation on Ukraine, it seems that is the only path to peace, at least in Trumps view..

"US President Donald Trump has criticized European leaders as "weak" and suggested the US could scale back support for Ukraine.

In a wide-ranging interview with Politico, he said "decaying" European countries had failed to control migration or take decisive action to end Ukraine's war with Russia, accusing them of letting Kyiv fight "until they drop".

He argued that Russia held the "upper hand" and urged Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelensky to "play ball" by ceding territory to Moscow.

In the UK, Downing Street rejected Trump's claim that Europe had failed to act, citing the UK's leadership on sanctions and reiterating support for the US-led peace process."... MSN

But Zelensky seems to be digging in against any concessions on Ukrainian land..
"Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy declared that Ukraine will not give up any territory to Russia and said components of a plan to end the war between the countries are ready to be presented to the U.S.

"Russia is insisting that we give up territories, but we don't want to cede anything," Zelenskyy said in an online press conference Monday, the AFP news agency reported.

"We have no legal right to do so, under Ukrainian law, our constitution and international law. And we don't have any moral right either," Zelenskyy said after leaving London, where he met with the leaders of the United Kingdom, France and Germany.

Zelenskyy's remarks suggest he will not bend to pressure from Russian President Vladimir Putin or President Trump, whose negotiators had proposed Ukraine give up its eastern region of the Donbas – about 20% of the country's territory – as part of a plan to end Russia's war on Ukraine, according to a draft shared publicly by a Ukrainian opposition politician and confirmed by a White House official.... MSN

And even the Pope has weighed in on the situation...
"Pope Leo has hit out at President Donald Trump’s Russia-Ukraine peace proposal and has warned that the administration risks destroying the longstanding alliance between Europe and the United States. As Ukraine faces growing pressure from the U.S. to accept major territorial losses and other concessions as a trade-off for Russia to end its years-long incursion, the pope has weighed in with a stinging rebuke to America’s approach."... Pope Leo Takes Shocking Swipe at Trump Over Old Friends

Something has to give, and it looks like the EU allies and their backing of Ukraine's hardening stance..

fhansen said:

We won't understand the gospel unless we first understand that, with or without regard to the law, whether or not one has even heard the law, one cannot be and remain a murderer, adulterer, theif, etc and still expect to enter heaven.

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The 10 are presented to a post-exodus Israel and establish a covenant relationship. They are framed in a way for a specific time, place and people and we shouldn't expect them to be universal as they were never presented that way. We cannot superimpose the 10 over Christian living and expect the same results because we are not in the same conditions the 10 were made in. The 10 have monotheistic claims and moral pillars framed in a way that uniquely challenges Israel and the surrounding cultures (through Israel). In the NT Christ reframes these as a heuristic approach over a list of dos and donts that is often summed up by NT authors as "loving your neighbour as yourself,"; this is known as "Christ's law".

It is this law that is fundamental and reaches deeper than the 10 can ever. First, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,” this includes the monotheistic claims of the 10 but also far greater. it is not only about idolatry, graven images and using his name in vain (which of course are not consistent with loving God with all your heart), but also innately our every action as directly involved with obedience to love God. Christ calls this the greatest commandment. The second is to love your neighbour as yourself. and this certainly includes not murdering your neighbour, stealing, lying, sleeping with their wife, etc... but it goes far deeper. We are no longer merely resisting doing harm, but Christ flips it and tells us we should be actively seeking to love others.

The 10 simply do not go to this length, and I may keep the 10 but hate my neighbour (and yes, even hate God), which is inconsistent with Christ's law. We cannot approach Christ if we cannot seriously approach our own actions critically to align with Christ. Christ's law has this goal, where the 10 are lacking, and we can keep the 10 while failing to critically address sin in our lives. This is the conversation Christ has with the Pharisees; it wasn't about how well they kept the law, Christ was more interested in their heart. The heuristic approach in Christ's law is not about a check list, and we must actively participate in understanding how our actions contribute to loving God/neighbour.

In its day the 10 were radical claims and ways of thinking challenging not just Israel but surrounding cultures too as a polemic to show order and restoration under God, but Christ's goes deeper than the 10 ever can; He is interested in letters of not just "the heart" but "OUR heart" which is the place where the value is birthed, but he is not interested in the letters on stone which can be exploited to support our own sin and may be devorced from our heart. It is good to think that murder, adultery, stealing, etc... are wrong but most (if not all) would accept this throughout all of civilization without any prompting and the 10 do not hold dominion over these moral claims. It is better to cut to the heart over a motivation to resist evil (which is limited, especially when condensed to 10), but actively be involved with doing good in all our actions. Christ himself tells us "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Mat 12:12), establishing that goodness itself is above sabbath law (directly) but also more broadly is a comment on all law and a nod to his own commandment that is Christ's law. This focus you will find is far more consistent throughout the NT.

.Mikha'el. said:

No, and it's far more trouble and stress than any one day is worth.

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I agree.

Glad you both made it home!

durangodawood said:

What about Jan 6?

And if they dont make it free, you should just break in.

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The Ammon Bundy way! How is he not Secretary of the Interior yet?

rjs330 said:

Islamism is a much greater threat than Christian Nationalism.

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I don't want neither. Both are too extreme to me.

BCP1928 said:

It just occurred to me after all this time we have spent talking about ancient esoteric knowledge and stonecutting--to put the two concepts together. And what tradisition combines ancient esoteric knowledge and stonecutting? Freemasonry! You need to look into Freemasonry to find your answer.

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Or Stonecutters.

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“He Did What?
Philippians 2:8 NLT
When he appeared in human form, he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

We have all had many times in our lives when we are surprised, whether in a good way or bad way, at something someone else does that we would never expect. We’ve often said, “She really did that?”, or maybe, “ He really said that?” When someone does something that is totally unexpected, it really leaves us in complete shock and we don’t know what to say or how to react. The situation can often leave us dumbfounded and with no words.

We all have often put so much energy and emotion into how we react and respond to these times in our lives. We have easily turned these times into gossip with others. We can’t believe what we’ve heard or seen and we want to tell others. It can become the talk of the group or the town. This could be very good or very bad.

This past Sunday, our pastor had a sermon talking about this chapter of Philippians and how Jesus came to do what He did and how unbelievable and amazing it actually was. What struck me was how our pastor said that we often do routine things at Christmas as we talk about how Jesus came into the world. And, in general, it’s often easy for us to become desensitized to all the emotion we should have at what Jesus did for us. It becomes commonplace and we totally miss the real emotion and meaning it should still hold for us.

I pulled up the NLT version and the phrase, “died a criminal’s death” completely captured my attention. Jesus did not belong on that Cross, we did. He went up there and died to save us all. He willingly gave it all to give us a future with Him. Nothing about what He did makes any sense. We deserved what He got. I don’t think I’ll ever read this passage the same again. He became nothing and died a criminal’s death for us. He wasn’t a criminal, but He definitely went through all the torture a criminal would experience.

I sure hope that we all experience the real emotion of what Jesus did for us. It should daily grip us in our hearts and we should take time to remember and be truly thankful. We should be in awe and be dumbfounded and say, “He did what?” Yes, He did that for you and for me? It should leave us speechless every single day. We should be filled with great emotion and awe for what He did for us. The world needs to see that raw emotion and gratefulness in our lives each day.

What Jesus did should leave us in complete awe every single day and we should be deeply thankful for the life He gives us.

I've spent a lot of time conversing with ChatGPT. It's very human-like in a lot of ways, but is pretty clear so far that it's just a machine. And it definitely makes mistakes. It's good at mimicking having a personality, but it's clear that it doesn't really. I'd say the biggest danger is to those who are unstable or naive, not having an objective view of what AI is and getting swept up in having a relationship with it.