“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1Co 15:3, 4). This seems to have been the first truth preached by the Apostle Paul. It is plain that such a truth does not in itself clear us from the world, nor give us the realization of our union with Christ on high. It is something done for us (if we accept it—NC), and does not in itself reveal relationship, although it is marvelously suited to show the love of God, the measure being the gift of His Son.

There are multitudes of persons, to whom we should not deny the Christian name, who reach only to this state (going no further than just believing in Christ—NC). They would mourn over any teaching which did not embody the death of Christ as the only meritorious cause of their acceptance before God—a death to save the lost. Hence they would alike reject as valid the ritualism of the day—the pomp of symbolism, and the intellectual setting up of man, and, if they went so far, would insist of the doctrine of justification by faith alone.

With this class of persons, you will find it difficult to maintain a spiritual conversation. They can talk with real earnestness of the results of Christianity, but they cannot really talk of Christ Himself, since they only know of what He has done, rather than what He is in Himself. Such persons, alive to the necessity of a religious life, are more or less safe as to the properties of conduct.

It belongs to them to cultivate the arts and sciences, and to show a respectable, nay, even a religious hue over everything around them; for ignorant of “the sentence of death” in themselves (2Co 1:9), they must fill up life by embellishing “the old man”; in short, they would get the unrenewed—man out of his sinful ways by presenting a man’s own self to him under a more attractive guise. They are not deeply experienced in the ruin of man, but think that something good may yet be made out of it; and all this without at all meaning to deny Christ.

Now the next step, which ought to be known after the fact of Christ dying for our sins and rising again, is that we died with Him. This is unfolded in Romans 6:6: “our old man is crucified with Him.” To have died with the Lord Jesus is a different thing from Christ dying for us (He died for the world but He was not received by most—NC). A temptation arises, it may be some cast of the eye to which the flesh would give way; but I say I cannot entertain it because I am dead (temptation to a believer is not able to get him to desire to lust because of Phl 2:13—NC). People remain in this state for a long time. Their demeanor is, to a certain extent, doleful. They begin to understand the deeper aspects of Christianity, but they are not yet in the experience of the life that comes out of death.

The next stage is that I am not only dead with Christ but alive with Him from the dead—“If ye then be risen with Christ” (Col 3:1). When I only knew that I was dead, there was divine certainty that the old man was crucified by the death of Christ, but no joy. But to be alive with Christ from the dead not only gives me to see a Person—a glorious Object before me, with all His surroundings—but I learn to enjoy divine fellowship with Him there on high, “for your life is hidden with Christ in God” (Col 3:3).


—William Wigram (1872 – 1953)



MJS devotional excerpt for December 2

“The believer, having received ‘the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus,’ comes under the influence of the ‘law’ of that Spirit (Rom. 8:2). The operating principle of ‘the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus’ ever works in the direction of profound self-judgment, and of the consciousness that we have in the Lord Jesus not only righteousness, but a divine Source of satisfaction and strength.

“This ‘law’ operates not to give a sense of claim (law), but of divine gift (grace) and resource and support. And thus it makes the one in whom it operates free from ‘the law of sin and death.’ It gives the consciousness that divine goodness is an unfailing resource for our hearts, and that all the treasures of that goodness are stored up in Christ Jesus, that we may learn them there, and find the life of our spirits in the growing knowledge of Him.

—Charles Andrew Coates (1862-1945)



“‘The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus’ made me ‘free from the law of sin and death’ (Rom. 8:2)—not ‘the life,’ but ‘the Spirit of life,’—not our effort, but divine strength; not self-occupation, but occupation with Him in whom we are before the Father, and in whom the divine favor rests upon us full and constant, because on Him it rests.

“There is the substitution of the power of the Spirit for the power of a right will and human effort, the substitution therefore of occupation with the glorified Lord Jesus Christ for occupation with spiritual growth; for then and thus alone is growth obtained.”

—Frederick William Grant (1834-1902

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

This is the beginning of wisdom. With these great truths as the foundation, we go on to learn that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ (Rom 8:1), that we are joined to the Lord and are one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17), that living in the Spirit compels us to walk in the Spirit (Ga 5:25), and that walking in the Spirit is the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Ga 5:16-17). We can rejoice in the fact that the law's requirements for righteousness are satisfied in us because new life in Christ has set us free from the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2-4). In short, we are able to stop pursuing righteousness because we already have it in Christ, and we are able to turn our attention to living out what He has already given us. New life in Christ Jesus is truly everything we need for life and godliness.

Click to expand...

Hi, and very nicely put! God knows we will always want to "please" Him, even when we ignorantly sin; because He "works" this "in you" (Phl 2:13).

GoldenBoy89 said:

It’s like people have completely forgotten what’s it’s like to not have someone constantly try to politicize every single thing that happens.

Click to expand...

And speaking of politicizing, when is the President going to order the flag lowered for the death of one of our troops?

essentialsaltes said:

Laura Loomer is now an accredited journalist at the Pentagon.

Click to expand...

I would like to wake up from this.

The nonsense perpetrated by @stevevw there is no evidence of the ancient Egyptians using conventional tools particularly during the Old Kingdom is refuted by the following table.

Ripheus27 said:

It's what the doctrine of imputation is. Christ's works are imputed to us. That by itself means said to be ours. Logic leads me to understand that this makes imputation out to be salvation by our own works regardless of what the doctrine hereof was made up to explain. As for where in TPP, it's in the dialogue with Ignorance or in the second book, when the children are being catechized (IIRC).

Click to expand...

Imputation is actually salvation by Christs works and righteousness given freely by grace to Gods elect.

For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

Deliverance from the works of the devil 1 Jn 3:8

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Did Shem's Dad have a Boat?

CoreyD said:

I did. However, you said nothing in response to it.
I showed that you are asserting that

• Scriptures such as Psalm 22:18; Psalm 78:1, 2; Psalm 91:11, 12; Isaiah 6:8-10; Isaiah 9:1, 2 are not prophetic of the Messiah, which makes Jesus and his followers out to be liars, since they all said, these prophetic utterances were fulfilled in the Messiah. John 19:23-24; Matthew 13:34-35; Matthew 4:6; Luke 4:10, 11; Matthew 13:14-15; Matthew 4:12-16; Matthew 2:15, 16... as well as his people. Romans 9:25; 1 Corinthians 15:55 (Hosea13:14); Mark 7:6; Luke 3:3-6; John 1:23 (Isaiah 40:1-5);
• Where the Greek scriptures quote the Hebrew scriptures, these were interpretations of the Jews, applying texts to someone they felt was the Messiah, and therefore the Greek scriptures are a farce, since Jesus did not really fulfill these prophecies... In fact they were not even prophesies. So...
• Jesus is a liar, and he lied when he said I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Luke 24:27, 44 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me." John 5:39, 46
• Luke 22:37 For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’ Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.” is not true. This is referring to Jerusalem - Zion.

I showed you that all these texts including Jesus words speak of the words of the Prophets being fulfilled at present, or future, in the Messiah or his people.


Why did you say 'original'?
Matthew said Hosea's words were fulfilled upon the Messiah, when Joseph was told to take Jesus out of Egypt.
The fact is, when God put those words on Hosea's tongue, God is the one who had in mind the application, and for us to decide and make the claim that God meant them only for Israel in Egypt, we would have to ignore what God inspired Matthew to write, and exalt ourselves above a level of a human.
I humbly accept that God inspired Matthew to apply Hosea's words to the Messiah, because God was uttering a Messianic prophecy.

The fact is, the text in the Gospels, and the apostles writings say that the words of the prophets are fulfilled there and then, either towards the Messiah, or his people?

What you are in fact saying is that God does not use two fold prophecies, nor does he insert Messianic prophesies in the Hebrew texts, written in the Prophets and Psalms....
Did Moses really write about Jesus. Or what was that a Jewish interpretation, put as Jesus' words? John 5:39, 46

Paul quoted Hosea 13:14, as having fulfilment in the future. “Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?” 1 Corinthians 15:55
Was that a Jewish interpretation?

I leave you to what you want to do here as well.
As they say in Jamaica, "I dun wid dat."

Click to expand...

You spammed a whole lot of nothing. Where in Mathew 2:15-16 does it say anything about the original meaning being about Jesus?

There's a difference between the original meaning of a passage, and the fulfillment of that passage. Come on C, I'm sure you can figure this one out.

A passage being “fulfilled” in Jesus does not mean that it was originally about Jesus, and the New Testament authors never claim otherwise. When Matthew, John, Paul, or others cite the Old Testament, they are not erasing the original meaning or asserting that the prophets consciously predicted Christ; rather, they treat Israel’s history, experiences, and themes as patterns that reach their fullest expression in Jesus. Texts like Hosea 11:1, Psalm 22, Isaiah 7:14, and Isaiah 40:3 all had clear, concrete meanings for their original audiences, and the NT writers never say those meanings are replaced or superseded. Instead, they view Jesus as the culmination or climax of those patterns, not the original referent. In other words, a passage can be fulfilled in Jesus without originally being about Jesus, which preserves both the integrity of the Old Testament’s context and the theological claims of the New Testament.

Bobthebomb said:

Looks like I am lost.
I have been searching for a while subconsciously, which is how I found my way here.
Tonight was too much, I asked God and Jesus into my life.

Nothing. I feel more alone than ever.

Click to expand...

Do you have a Bible?

Is that recursive?

Y'all gotta check Against Heresies by Irenaeus of Lyons

Here's a budget option from a Public Domain Translation & collects all 5 books into 1
Against Heresies

Alternatively if you want a modern translation the team at Paulist Press has the best one albeit quite expensive & the books are sold individually with the exception of Books 4 & 5 which are sold together as 1 book

Book 1
55. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Rev Walter J. Burghardt SJP, Dominic J. Unger : PaulistPress
Book 2
65. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - John J. Dillon, PhD, Dominic J. Unger : PaulistPress
Book 3
64. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Matthew C. Steenberg : PaulistPress
Books 4 & 5
72. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - John J. Dillon, PhD, Scott D Moringiello : PaulistPress

I highly recommend reading as it provides context about the early church before the 1st council of Nicaea.

Hvizsgyak said:

Which shouldn't be a problem, right? I feel we should debate secular society with our Christian ethics and morality. It might not influence the secular person who posted the trolling topic but it gives the third parties reading the posts something to think about. Possibly they may find that Christians and Christianity's ethics and morality (which come from God) have alot to offer the world. I follow alot of your posts and I feel God is influencing me through some of those posts. I appreciate that alot (don't mind the word "alot" being misspelled, it's one of those Mandela effects - I swear it was spelled that way in another parallel universe ).

Click to expand...

I’m with you—polite, public debate is worth it, not to win the troll but to leave bread-crumbs for the silent third-parties who later DM, “I never knew Christians thought like that.”
If grace stays on the keyboard, the Spirit can use even our push-backs to chip away at someone’s never-considered-that wall.
Keep planting those breadcrumbs—you never know which lurker will pick one up and hunger for more.

And hey, I reckon NZ is that parallel universe—down there we glue our vowels together like “alot,” “sweet-as,” and “yeah-nah.”
So if ‘alot’ ever looked right to you, it’s just the Kiwi-spell-checker you may have come across once. Keeps things real for sure.

Actor Jonathan Roumie, who stars as Jesus Christ on the acclaimed series “The Chosen,” returned to “The View” Dec. 1, where he discussed meeting Pope Leo, Hallow’s 25-day Advent prayer challenge, and the impact “The Chosen” has had on others and himself.

“I don’t think it would have the same kind of authenticity,” Roumie said in response to cohost Ana Navarro, who asked if Roumie would be able to play Jesus if he weren’t as “spiritual and religious” as he is.

“I think what I bring to the role is my relationship to Christ, is my relationship to Jesus, my love for him,” said Roumie. “And so by taking on his love for humanity and trying to recreate that, it’s made me a better person. It’s made me want to love people.”

Continued below.

King

timf said:

The Irish prisoners starved to death around 40 days +.
You will die sooner without water.
The only thing I found useful about fasting is that it acts like a timer reminding yourself that you had intended to pray about something.

Click to expand...

Mozambique pastor dies attempting 40-day Jesus fast Here is a sad story of a pastor dying without water because he tried to fast like Jesus.

I do know a pastor and some in his church that fast 21 days, and a few of them 40 of no food. I have heard a sermon from them on how to do this practically using a little bit of prune juice, and vitamin supplements. I think too that one does not start off on 40 days. I would try 3, then work it up a bit.

I personally like Kenneth Hagin's short book entitled"Commonsense Guide to fasting" https://gthinkers.org/spiritual_books/Kenneth E. Hagin A common sense guide to fasting..pdf.pdf
Basically, he talks of biblical examples in fasting and how very few are called beyond 3 days at a time. If that were to occur then the Holy Spirit would lead just as they did Jesus.

During a rapid-fire portion of the “Room for Nuance” podcast, 9Marks President Jonathan Leeman was asked to share a belief from the last five years that he no longer holds.

Leeman was named 9Marks’ new president in April. He explained that in 2018—while speaking alongside now-President Emeritus Mark Dever at a 9Marks-at-9 event during the SBC annual meeting—he publicly allowed for the possibility that Christians could, in some circumstances, vote for a pro-choice political candidate. He said, “I think that was wrong.”

“I think it was 2018, at the SBC, we did a 9Marks-at-9, in which Mark and I on stage talked about the freedom to vote for pro-choice or pro-life candidates,” Leeman explained. “Not because we believed in pro-choice, we are both vigorously opposed to it, but we recognized or we believed that there was still space for Christians to [vote for a pro-choice candidate].” Leeman said, “There’s multiple rocks on the scale.”

Continued below.

Michie said:

What a reaction!

What A Reaction

Kid gets statue of the Virgin Mary for Christmas ✝️ pic.twitter.com/SLjWGD2Wfi — Catholic Quotes (@CatholicQuote12) December 1, 2025

spiritdaily.org

Click to expand...

That’s so sweet!

BelieveItOarKnot said:

unless you believe you are spiritually protected.

Click to expand...

I do believe the Lord will protect His own, those who 'Call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved. Acts 2:21

Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10

Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.

Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.

Psalms 91:1-16 ...He will rescue you, you will not fear the terrors abroad.

Psalms 121:1-8 Our help comes from the Lord, He will guard your life.

Psalms 109:31 The Lord stands at the right hand of the poor and saves them from trials.

Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.

Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.

Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.

Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.

Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.

Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.

Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.

Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time, Your people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.

Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion, the heavens and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people and a defence for Israel.

Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings. Apoc.

Hello, welcome. There is an area here on CF that might be able to help you more, The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox .

Podcaster Joe Rogan recently revealed more about his ongoing journey toward Christianity, explaining he has been moved by the kindness of Christians he knows at church and that he has grown convinced the Bible is not entirely mythical.

"I think they're relaying a truth," Rogan said of Christians during a Nov. 30 episode of the "American Alchemy" podcast.

“I don't think it's myth. I don't think the whole thing is myth, but I don't think it's entirely accurate either," he said.

Rogan went on to note that he was recently discussing the Book of Revelation with his daughter, and that he told her nobody knows how the prophecies in that book will play out.

He went on to say he finds the Bible fascinating, even though he remains unsure how much of it is literally true. He also said he has taken note at how kind the Christians have been at the church he has been regularly attending, which is reportedly a non-denominational church in Austin, Texas.

Continued below.

mourningdove~ said:

I'm not going to attempt to analyze your situation, but I will share that thru the years I've heard numerous successful comedians talk about this very same thing ... how they can make us all laugh ... and be the funniest person in the room ... but inside they are feeling the things that you've described. IRL, they personally deal with depression, loneliness, etc.

(Some that easily come to mind are former Saturday Nite Live cast members.)

I don't know what it all means, but I share this just to say that I don't think your experience is unique to just you.

Click to expand...

I’ve heard and read about comedians who’ve said the same thing.

Mockingbird0 said:

Nor do I know of any reliable evidence that Matthew preached in Parthia, Pontus, or Ethiopia.

Click to expand...

It’s in the Orthodox Synaxaria. Can’t get much more reliable than that.

Mockingbird0 said:

Further I know of no reliable evidence that the Apostle Matthew is the same as the Evangelist Matthew.

Click to expand...

I know of no reliable evidence that they were different people, nor is the idea even popular (in contrast to the idea, popular among liberal mainline Christians, that St. John the Apostle, St. John the Evangelist, and St. John the Divine were three separate persons).