Zionism = a form of racism?

Lik3

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Why do some people equate Zionism is a form of racism? Why do they wish that Israel exists or at least believe the Jews don't have the right to have a nation of their own? I personally don't agree with this mind you. It is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy and I don't believe that the Arab Palestinians are like the Native Americans, whose land was truly stolen from them.
 

miamited

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Why do some people equate Zionism is a form of racism? Why do they wish that Israel exists or at least believe the Jews don't have the right to have a nation of their own? I personally don't agree with this mind you. It is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy and I don't believe that the Arab Palestinians are like the Native Americans, whose land was truly stolen from them.

Hi lik,

You've got my vote. I believe the faithful Jew is still one of the children of God and I believe the everlasting covenant between Abraham and God of the land that His people would possess is still an active covenant. After all, the Scriptures tell us clearly that God has hardened, or at least allowed the hardening, of the hearts of Israelis for the very purpose that His word may have an opportunity to go out into all the world before God closes the book on this realm. It then clearly tells us that a time will come when the faithful Jew will believe in the work of God's Son and be saved in the same way that we are.

I believe that the Scriptures are clear that in the end, when those who have received the promise of God's salvation and are living in the new city of Zion, that every single one of them will have attained that promise by believing in the work and the testimony of Jesus. Praise his holy name!

As to the answer to your question: Because they do not have the guarantee that Paul spoke of. They are speaking out of their own supposed wisdom rather than the power of God's Holy Spirit. They have not yet been born again and received the Holy Spirit to give them understanding and discernment of the things of their God. Without the Holy Spirit the things of God are incomprehensible to the weak and wicked mind of men.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Creech

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Why do some people equate Zionism is a form of racism? Why do they wish that Israel exists or at least believe the Jews don't have the right to have a nation of their own? I personally don't agree with this mind you. It is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy and I don't believe that the Arab Palestinians are like the Native Americans, whose land was truly stolen from them.

I think the biggest reason people do not support Israel is their continued aggression after already having a nation state of their own. I don't think Zionism has to be racism but many Zionists could certainly be classified as racists or supremacists.
 
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A New Dawn

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I don't see Israel as having "continued aggression", I see them as having continued defense. Let's face it, Israel is not the aggressor. They may be aggressively defending their country/state, but it isn't without warrant.
 
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Creech

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I don't see Israel as having "continued aggression", I see them as having continued defense. Let's face it, Israel is not the aggressor. They may be aggressively defending their country/state, but it isn't without warrant.

You wouldn't consider the expansion of Israeli settlements an act of aggression? The expansion of Israeli settlements have been condemned by the United Nations, the International Court of Justice, and many other organizations.
 
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A New Dawn

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You wouldn't consider the expansion of Israeli settlements an act of aggression? The expansion of Israeli settlements have been condemned by the United Nations, the International Court of Justice, and many other organizations.

Are they trying to expand their settlements outside of their state?
 
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Bjornke

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Hi lik,

You've got my vote. I believe the faithful Jew is still one of the children of God and I believe the everlasting covenant between Abraham and God of the land that His people would possess is still an active covenant. After all, the Scriptures tell us clearly that God has hardened, or at least allowed the hardening, of the hearts of Israelis for the very purpose that His word may have an opportunity to go out into all the world before God closes the book on this realm. It then clearly tells us that a time will come when the faithful Jew will believe in the work of God's Son and be saved in the same way that we are.

I believe that the Scriptures are clear that in the end, when those who have received the promise of God's salvation and are living in the new city of Zion, that every single one of them will have attained that promise by believing in the work and the testimony of Jesus. Praise his holy name!

As to the answer to your question: Because they do not have the guarantee that Paul spoke of. They are speaking out of their own supposed wisdom rather than the power of God's Holy Spirit. They have not yet been born again and received the Holy Spirit to give them understanding and discernment of the things of their God. Without the Holy Spirit the things of God are incomprehensible to the weak and wicked mind of men.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
Wow, excellent post. I agree with your points for sure! You seem to be very knowledgeable miamited.

I also believe that Zionism isn't racism. The two aren't even related....whatsoever.

Also, Israel is not being aggressive. They have fought a war for the land they are "settling" and they aren't settling in Syria...

Plus, the land they are settling is considered part of the true Israeli nation state. This is simply the fulfillment of the scripture, that the nation of Israel will return to the face of the earth.

Blessings,

Brandon
 
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Creech

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Are they trying to expand their settlements outside of their state?

They are expanding into what is recognized as Palestinian land by various international treaties, organizations, and world governments. It is pure aggression.
 
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A New Dawn

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They are expanding into what is recognized as Palestinian land by various international treaties, organizations, and world governments. It is pure aggression.

And the Palestinians are not trying to force their way back into Israel?
 
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miamited

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They are expanding into what is recognized as Palestinian land by various international treaties, organizations, and world governments. It is pure aggression.

Hi Creech,

Yes, but you do understand from the Scriptures that the world, as a whole, is the dominion of Satan. When you speak of the various international treaties and organizations and world governments you are speaking of predominantly godless entities. Why would you even think to imagine that they would support anything of God? Now, I don't have any idea where you stand in your relationship with the one true and living God, but to put the treaties of men and governments over the covenants of God wouldn't reflect a very godly nature, to me.

According to the covenant of land that God gave unto Abraham and his descendants the land that belongs to Israel is much greater than what they now have. Israel wants the West Bank and the Gaza strip and these are pieces of their land according to that covenant. When the UN gave Israel its statehood it held out these two pieces of land from their inheritance. That's like the UN giving North Korea the state of Virginia. It would give a nation that we know to be very unfriendly to us a position from which they could strike us within seconds. Not having possession of the West Bank puts Israel in a very, very precarious position with its enemy neighbors. It effectively divides the nation and squeezes the piece of land that joins the two larger parts into just a matter of a few miles. Here's a map for you:

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Moreover, the West Bank land allows Israel some defense against the aggressor nations that surround it because it is higher land.

However, you are grossly mistaken in your claim that Israel has been an aggressor nation. We had 4 jet airplanes hijacked that struck a few buildings in the US and brought about wars in the middle east against those that we believe are responsible for that act. Does that mean that you hold the US as also an aggressor nation? Nations have the right to protect their borders and to take reactive measures against any other nation or people that infringe on their borders. That is all Israel has done.

Maybe you're young and don't remember the days when Palestinians were sending women and men with bombs strapped to their backs or cars loaded down with explosives into their cities nearly every day. Because of Israel's 'aggression' much of that has stopped. Friend, you'll never go wrong if you go with God, but you'll most certainly always go wrong if you side with the godless.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Simon_Templar

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There are lots of different forms or branches of "Zionism". Some of the Zionists, for example, have essentially been socialist/communist. Others have been more religious. Many have been secular, but see Jewishness in primarily racial terms, viewing the religion of judaism as more just one factor of Jewish national culture.

Zionism is often times seen as racist because of how Zionists understand the idea of Jewish homeland etc.

As Americans we come from a multi-ethnic nation and we are used to the idea that anyone can become an American. We might say, America for the Americans, but we don't define America by race, we define it by citizenship and anyone of any race can become an American.

Zionists do define their nation by race. Zionists want Israel to be a Jewish nation and they oppose and have pretty successfully blocked people of other races from becoming citizens etc.

Most Christians who support Israel have no idea how far this really goes. For example, in the state of Israel, there is no legal marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew. Most people in the world would consider it racist to not allow marriage between your race and people of another race.

There is no law preventing mixed race people from living together or having kids, but they can not legally marry and their kids are also not regarded as Jewish.

Another thing most Christian supporters of Israel don't realize is that Israel has actively persecuted Christians, largely due to the political clout of the orthodox Jewish community. They actively try to prevent any Christian Jews from immigrating to Israel, they persecute Churches in Israel and there are even terrorist attacks by Orthodox Jews against Christians.

For example, a few years ago on one of the Jewish holidays, orthodox Jews delivered a bomb packed with nails to the house of a Christian pastor. Luckily no one was killed but the pastor's son was pretty badly mangled.

Because of the political power of the orthodox Jewish community, the police basically don't seriously investigate attacks like that.

The situation was bad enough at that time that many evangelical pastors in Israel were trying to get together and petition the government to demand legal action.

I actually am a supporter of Israel, but I also recognize that most American Christians have a totally unrealistic, rose-colored image of Israel.
Israel is a cultural ally of the US and a western nation... but the orthodox Jewish community is very anti-Christian and they have enough political power to enforce their views.


*edit add*
I have no problem with the Israeli occupied territories. The Arabs have waged war against Israel since the founding of the nation and they have lost. I see no reason why Israel should give that territory back. I also think it is foolish to think that the palestinians or any of the arab nations really truly want peace. They just want concessions and to weaken Israel until they are strong enough to conquer Israel.

I also oppose the creation of a palestinian state.
 
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MrJim

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Unless they believe in and follow Christ the Israelites/Jews are destined for destruction just like anyone else including their Muslim neighbors. The US can prop up the Israelis all they want, and Evangelicals can befriend them all they want, but if they continue in their unbelief they will face eternity apart from God...there is only one Way.
 
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Kurama

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There are lots of different forms or branches of "Zionism". Some of the Zionists, for example, have essentially been socialist/communist. Others have been more religious. Many have been secular, but see Jewishness in primarily racial terms, viewing the religion of judaism as more just one factor of Jewish national culture.

I believe the State of Israel was founded as a socialist, secular state. It collaborated with both the USA and the USSR, initially trying to accept aid from both superpowers (though ultimately the Soviets would align themselves with the Arabs). Although Judaism plays a vital role in Zionism, I am certain that it is the Balfour Declaration, Holocaust and growing hostilities between Jews and Muslims in Palestine, that led to the creation of Israel.


Most Christians who support Israel have no idea how far this really goes. For example, in the state of Israel, there is no legal marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew. Most people in the world would consider it racist to not allow marriage between your race and people of another race.

There is no law preventing mixed race people from living together or having kids, but they can not legally marry and their kids are also not regarded as Jewish.

Hmmm now that is quite surprising...I thought Israelis were subject to secular law. I always thought that only the very orthodox Jewish sects (of which adherents formerly dodged the military draft until they were forced to join) did not recognised the mixed-race Jews. Most of Israel's leaders are part of reformed Judaism, I don't think they would enforce such strict laws on the people of a democratic country.

I don't support Israel for its religion or the belief that it's the ''sacred land'' (as many Evangelicals like to put it), I support Israel because it is a democratic country that allows a freedom religion for its people, as well as the fact that the Israelis have very good water conservation technologies (best in the Middle East).

Religion doesn't really matter to me surrounding Israel, they could be Muslim and it would mae no difference. That's why I admire Turkey, to some extent, for being an example for secularism to the rest of Muslim countries. It is the principles that Israel stands for that makes me support the country.

That's why I'm quite shocked that the Israelis would practise such a harsh marriage and racial law...


Another thing most Christian supporters of Israel don't realize is that Israel has actively persecuted Christians, largely due to the political clout of the orthodox Jewish community. They actively try to prevent any Christian Jews from immigrating to Israel, they persecute Churches in Israel and there are even terrorist attacks by Orthodox Jews against Christians.

The orthodox Jews have been in antagonisms with the government, they're used civil disobedience to dodge the military draft. All they do is procreate and refuse to work, they do not help Israel. Many orthodox Jews actually openly support Iran and state that they want Israel destroyed, for in the Torah it states that Israel may only exist when the Messiah saves the Jewish people.

Ironically, the more Jewish you are, the more anti-Israeli you'll be ^_^


I actually am a supporter of Israel, but I also recognize that most American Christians have a totally unrealistic, rose-colored image of Israel.
Israel is a cultural ally of the US and a western nation... but the orthodox Jewish community is very anti-Christian and they have enough political power to enforce their views.

Agreed, especially groups such as ''Christians united for Israel'' are heavily biased. They keep on talking about Israel being sacred, that you're a bad Christian if you don't support Israel. Well as far as I know, Israel is just another country...the Catholic Church is the ''new Israel''. The Church has tried to remain neutral in the conflict but, traditionally, the Pope has always spoken for the poor. Palestine is full of impoverished people, thus the Church has called for more aid to the Palestinian people.

I'm pro-Israeli, to some extent, because I recognise and identify with their principles. However I think that too violent retaliations will only make the Palestinians more militant. I also sympathise with the Palestinian civilians...I only wish them freedom and democracy, and better incentives to work together rather than support militant groups.


*edit add*
I have no problem with the Israeli occupied territories. The Arabs have waged war against Israel since the founding of the nation and they have lost. I see no reason why Israel should give that territory back. I also think it is foolish to think that the palestinians or any of the arab nations really truly want peace. They just want concessions and to weaken Israel until they are strong enough to conquer Israel.

I also oppose the creation of a palestinian state.

Yes, but no western politicians are going to take that approach. They very well know that the more they support Israel and alienate Palestine, the more the Palestinians will be pushed into the arms of Hamas and Hezbollah. The visits Obama is giving to the PNA show his intent that he wants the USA to be pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian.

Perhaps an oxymoron...as soon as Gaza was given back to the Palestinians, Hamas brutally took over it and started firing rockets at Israel. It's a tough situation...there is no clear solution. That being said I believe the Palestinian people are the greatest victims. Their militant governments devoid them of basic rights, hide missiles in nurseries and hospitals, and train children to be suicide bombers...

That being said I've heard of one conservative video blogger talking about a ''one state'' solution in which Israel took over the whole Middle East. He said that Israeli law would give equal protection and respect to Muslims, Christians and Jews living in the area. Furthermore the Middle East would be democratic and there would be minimised rifts between different Muslim sects.

Right-wing slander of course...but I wonder if it could actually work ^_^
 
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theophilus40

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They are expanding into what is recognized as Palestinian land by various international treaties, organizations, and world governments. It is pure aggression.
All of the land they are occupying is part of the land that was promised to them by God. The opinions of other nations regarding the ownership of the land is irrelevant.
 
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Albion

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Why do some people equate Zionism is a form of racism?
Words can be powerful propaganda tools. They don't have to be accurate in order to be effective.

Notice that the same people who yell "racism" if Israel exists, also have taken to labelling any police action intended to restrain anti-Israeli agitators by the word "terrorism." Since these are words that have been used by the people who live in the Democracies, the enemies of the West have learned to turn the same language against them.


Why do they wish that Israel exists or at least believe the Jews don't have the right to have a nation of their own?
Because it was land that previously was populated primarily by Arabs, not Jews. The Arabs, of course, took it from someone else at an earlier time.
 
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miamited

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Unless they believe in and follow Christ the Israelites/Jews are destined for destruction just like anyone else including their Muslim neighbors. The US can prop up the Israelis all they want, and Evangelicals can befriend them all they want, but if they continue in their unbelief they will face eternity apart from God...there is only one Way.

Hi Jim,

Yes, your first point is, of course, true, but...

The Scriptures tell us that God has hardened their hearts for a time that the gospel may be preached. The Scriptures also tell us that a time is coming when God will reverse that hardening. Therefore, I would be careful, if your comment was meant to infer condemnation of Israel for not believing in Jesus, as a valid reason to turn our backs on Israel. Israel is doing exactly what God has caused them to do!

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Zeek

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I don't see Israel as having "continued aggression", I see them as having continued defense. Let's face it, Israel is not the aggressor. They may be aggressively defending their country/state, but it isn't without warrant.

:wave:...totally with you.
 
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miamited

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:wave:...totally with you.

Hi Zeek,

Good to have you here. Sadly, though, those who make these kinds of claims aren't likely to accept the testimony of a Jew regarding the 'right' or 'wrong' of Israel. But, I'm with you brother.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Kurama

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I don't see Israel as having "continued aggression", I see them as having continued defense. Let's face it, Israel is not the aggressor. They may be aggressively defending their country/state, but it isn't without warrant.

I agree, Israel has only ever been attacked by its neighbours. However I still believe that Israel must pay greater care not to harm Palestinian civilians. I believe that the aggressive retaliations against Gaza have only brought more support to Hamas, and more support for vengence. I don't want the Palestinian people to get hurt...they did not choose to be part of this conflict, their dictatorship did.

However in the defence of Israel, the cowards in Hamas hide their rockets in hospitals and nurseries...I suppose Israel has to target them.
 
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Creech

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All of the land they are occupying is part of the land that was promised to them by God. The opinions of other nations regarding the ownership of the land is irrelevant.

I am a faithful Christian and that is not my belief.
 
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