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I just gave you one.
Here is another:
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Corinthians 7:10
And that is proof we have no control over it?
Do you even recall what I asked proof of, because that has nothing to do with it.
Yes, you're right..we are moved by His Spirit and making us good and to do good...
He's Not forcing Himself on us, but He made us accept Him by the Wisdom He also gave us....
Hopefully I don't misunderstand your position. ..
You clearly don’t understand what I posted. Before you are saved you are of the world. Your sorrow or repentance cannot save you it brings death. The sorrow from God will save you and cause you to repent. Do you have control over sorrow? Of course not. It’s either sorrow from you (the world in your fallen state) or its from God.
God causes you to repent it was never in your control.
The sorrow from God will save you and cause you to repent.
Completely wrong. Read Romans 3:
There is none righteous, no, not one.
There is none that doeth good, no, not one.
by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight
Being justified freely by his grace
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Corinthians 7:10You posted this:
As well as the following, and I have no idea where you got the following from in the bible. It sounds like someones point of view with no biblical backing. So since I've nailed down your basis for the "no control over it" comment, now tell me where you got the following from, where is the scripture to back it up:
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Corinthians 7:10
Brings repentance that leads to salvation. Salvation=saved.
God causes you to repent it was never in your control.
Why does a new heart desire to do God's will?Addressing point 1-God gives born again believers a new heart that desires to do his will. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, not by the written code. Romans 2:29
Addressing point 2- I agree with that. People will be judged for what they do.
The Godly sorrow mentioned states that it will lead to salvation. When you are saved you are saved. The sorrow is not from the world but from God himself.
This is correct.Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Corinthians 7:10
Brings repentance that leads to salvation. Salvation=saved.
Exactly. How can they save us from ourselves by being that which we need saving from?The church should be saving souls and not partnering with the world (as I believe is happening today as never before).
I agree with you and the first paragraph made me smile in agreement.Exactly. How can they save us from ourselves by being that which we need saving from?
Actually I think it may have started sooner. The Latin church lost the civil war and it took them years, maybe centuries, to regain power. The power struggle was on on before Constantine. That proves they were on the wrong track before that as the clash was between man and not Kingdom vs world of man.
There are NO verses in the Bible, both Testaments included... that say Jesus, once in you, will leave you if you are a bad Christian, etc.
He is sealed in there, along with the Holy Spirit, unless the bible is lying.
Jesus does promise you Eternal Life, and this promise has NO CONDITIONS, once you are born again, unless Jesus is lying. (Now, heretics/ legalist will lie about this, but Jesus didn't.)
There are NO verses in the Bible, both testaments included, that say you can fall out of Christ, or become disconnected from Christ. (now heretics /Legalist will lie about this, but Jesus didn't.)
And there is a reason for that...
You can't.
=====================================================
People who are trusting in Faith, instead of trusting in Christ...who talk about "holding unto your faith, is how you keep yourself saved", have not understood that God does not save you by your faith. What He does is accept your faith, to then SAVE YOU BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. "faith is counted as righteousness", but...faith is not the Blood of Jesus..>Its just the means that God accepts to give you that Blood Atonement and the Righteousness of Christ....as "the GIFT of Righteousness". = BORN AGAIN.
Think of this. Think of all the things that a heretic- religious person believes that they have to do, so that God will take them and keep them... Now do all those things...., keep the Torah, keep the commandments, keep the law, love God and your neighbor as yourself, be water baptized........but do this also.........Take Jesus off the Cross. Put Him back into heaven. No cross, No blood, no death, no sacrifice.
Now, keep doing all that stuff. Keep those commandments. Live that holy life.. Take those sacraments. Join that "one true church"... Keep that golden rule. Get water baptized a few times " for the remission of your sin". Love your neighbor as yourself. Keep the law. Die a Martyr..... Do all that for 1000 yrs.
Are you saved by any or all of it?
I'll ask you again, are you saved by any or all of it? Are your sins forgiven by all that? Are you Born Again by that 1000 yrs of WORKS?
You're not?
And why is that?
If you can answer that correctly, in your own heart, then you are describing the Gospel of the GRACE OF GOD, in Truth.
For some of you, that'll be the first time you ever realized it.
There are NO verses in the Bible, both Testaments included... that say Jesus, once in you, will leave you if you are a bad Christian, etc.
He is sealed in there, along with the Holy Spirit, unless the bible is lying.
Jesus does promise you Eternal Life, and this promise has NO CONDITIONS, once you are born again, unless Jesus is lying. (Now, heretics/ legalist will lie about this, but Jesus didn't.)
There are NO verses in the Bible, both testaments included, that say you can fall out of Christ, or become disconnected from Christ. (now heretics /Legalist will lie about this, but Jesus didn't.)
And there is a reason for that...
You can't.
=====================================================
People who are trusting in Faith, instead of trusting in Christ...who talk about "holding unto your faith, is how you keep yourself saved", have not understood that God does not save you by your faith. What He does is accept your faith, to then SAVE YOU BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. "faith is counted as righteousness", but...faith is not the Blood of Jesus..>Its just the means that God accepts to give you that Blood Atonement and the Righteousness of Christ....as "the GIFT of Righteousness". = BORN AGAIN.
Think of this. Think of all the things that a heretic- religious person believes that they have to do, so that God will take them and keep them... Now do all those things...., keep the Torah, keep the commandments, keep the law, love God and your neighbor as yourself, be water baptized........but do this also.........Take Jesus off the Cross. Put Him back into heaven. No cross, No blood, no death, no sacrifice.
Now, keep doing all that stuff. Keep those commandments. Live that holy life.. Take those sacraments. Join that "one true church"... Keep that golden rule. Get water baptized a few times " for the remission of your sin". Love your neighbor as yourself. Keep the law. Die a Martyr..... Do all that for 1000 yrs.
Are you saved by any or all of it?
I'll ask you again, are you saved by any or all of it? Are your sins forgiven by all that? Are you Born Again by that 1000 yrs of WORKS?
You're not?
And why is that?
If you can answer that correctly, in your own heart, then you are describing the Gospel of the GRACE OF GOD, in Truth.
For some of you, that'll be the first time you ever realized it.
Yes I maintain that. Certainly heretics were weeded out and an unofficial but similar canon created, yes. But the church was meant to be truth from God, not man. The church we had by then was human. The problem came due to a gentile tradition of systematic division where the followers no longer lived a way of life as promoted by Jesus but under an institutional system, a government modelled not on the governance of God, but previous governments of man. This set the path for an easy assimilation with Rome at a later date because the two were on the same wavelength instead of opposite and separate as intended.But you say that the troubles began before Constantine.
Yes. What I was talking about is the problems the church created for itself here in Europe in the early days by becoming a part of the govt. Bishops here actually ruled cities and regions and the spirituality was drained out of the church.Yes I maintain that. Certainly heretics were weeded out and an unofficial but similar canon created, yes. But the church was meant to be truth from God, not man. The church we had by then was human. The problem came due to a gentile tradition of systematic division where the followers no longer lived a way of life as promoted by Jesus but under an institutional system, a government modelled not on the governance of God, but previous governments of man. This set the path for an easy assimilation with Rome at a later date because the two were on the same wavelength instead of opposite and separate as intended.
Not saying this was not part of God's plan. He knew the nature of man and especially the gentiles so He simply used them for His purpose (time of the Gentiles). It's not about us as so many assume, but about the Kingdom. How much do we know of the early Jewish church through the first two hundred years? Very little as they were destined to be absorbed and the Jewish nation scattered. So it was imperative that non epistle scripture, rather than becoming obscure or lost, made it's way through history. Not as a foundation for a way of life as intended (except for those who figure that out) but within a human government called Gentile Christianity... a religion. It survived within the enemy.
The later problems you spoke of were IMO due to a government of man, not the governance of the Kingdom.
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