Your WORKS won't do it.

Kenny'sID · Jan 6, 2020

jahel said:
Your comment was about the blood that can only be found at the throne of grace for the removal of a guilty conscience, which was what you used to attack another for no reason that I could see. Maybe you should explain.

No, my comment was just exactly what I said it was, please go back and read my post again, as you seem to have forgotten what I said...I was very clear. It was to show the claim non OSAS does not except the blood is not truth but a deception designed to do just as I said. And now you seem to be trying confuse what I was very clear about. What exactly do you want me to explain now, when I explained in the original post?

jahel said:
The other accusations from you make it plain the spirit behind your words can only come from the accuser. I have no further comment.

Why? The accusations were true. You are welcome to show me my error in detail but to make such a claim as you just did with no explanation whatsoever as to why you are correct and I'm wrong, just doesn't cut it. Now if you cannot do that, all you have is an empty accusation, at which point it may be a good idea for you to d just as you have...have no further comment.

jahel · Jan 6, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
No, my comment was just exactly what I said it was, please go back and read my post again, as you seem to have forgotten what I said...I was very clear. It was to show the claim non OSAS does not except the blood is not truth but a deception designed to do just as I said. And now you seem to be trying confuse what I was very clear about. What exactly do you want me to explain now, when I explained in the original post?

Why? The accusations were true. You are welcome to show me my error in detail but to make such a claim as you just did with no explanation whatsoever as to why you are correct and I'm wrong, just doesn't cut it. Now if you cannot do that, all you have is an empty accusation, at which point it may be a good idea for you to d just as you have...have no further comment.

No further comment anyway ....

Kenny'sID · Jan 6, 2020

pasifika said:
Well, if we are good enough without any efforts from God in making us good...then Christ died for Nothing...

We have his effort, we/our hearts were moved by his gracious kindness, patience, and so many more efforts. How could one not be moved by that and be grateful enough to, at the very least, attempt to please him. So yes, he made us good, but nothing was forced ot put into us without us allowing it.

God moved our hearts to obey him by showing us true love. Or are you saying he did something more to make that happen...I don't understand the disagreement here?

Lost4words · Jan 6, 2020

Just suffered and died so that we could be saved from our sins. We first have to repent of those sins. We have to ask for forgiveness just like it says in the 'Our Father'.

We have to believe in Jesus. Truly. 100%.

We have to do as He says "Forgive us our trespasses".

This is an ongoing occurrence with our human nature. We fall, we repent, we believe in God's forgiveness.

pasifika · Jan 6, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
We have his effort, we/our hearts were moved by his gracious kindness, patience, and so many more efforts. How could one not be moved by that and be grateful enough to, at the very least, attempt to please him. So yes, he made us good, but nothing was forced ot put into us without us allowing it.

God moved our hearts to obey him by showing us true love. Or are you saying he did something more to make that happen...I don't understand the disagreement here?

Yes, you're right..we are moved by His Spirit and making us good and to do good...
He's Not forcing Himself on us, but He made us accept Him by the Wisdom He also gave us....
Hopefully I don't misunderstand your position. ..

Phil W · Jan 6, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello, people in OT and NT are All under the Power of Sin to start with...and are All saved by Grace of God...

Agreed.
Thank God for rebirth, and to be freed from that "power" by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:2)

The promise of the "Spirit " was made available for those who are of Christ..and its fulfillment in each and everyone of us Now and those in the future is still yet to come...

I assume you are referring to the resurrection of the just on the last day.
Hurry back Jesus !

Phil W · Jan 6, 2020

fwGod said:
The context is not salvation- being born again, it's about deliverance (sesoken: sozo: deliverance, rescue) from her sins. Jesus forgave many of their sins, but, no one could be saved: born again, until after Jesus had gone to the cross. After that, at salvation the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in every heart that believes, however it would not happen to any of them because John said in 7:39, "By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified."

I'ld be happy to leave it at "faith saves", whether from sin or damnation: we won't be saved without faith.

Ilikecats · Jan 6, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Yes.

No I idea what that one means to you, please explain..

I accept the blood that allowed me to get forgiveness, meaning the guilt is no longer necessary as long as we have repented and stay with our walk with Christ within reason, then if we mess up, simply repent again.

So, not seeing where the guilt you mention is coming from??

God causes you to repent it was never in your control. He is the beginning and end of your salvation. No one seeks God and no one will repent of their sins if not for his own intervention. Do you think you are righteous because of your own doing? Man is brought into repentance once-away from the Law and into Grace.

pasifika · Jan 6, 2020

Ilikecats said:
God causes you to repent it was never in your control. He is the beginning and end of your salvation. No one seeks God and no one will repent of their sins if not for his own intervention. Do you think you are righteous because of your own doing? Man is brought into repentance once-away from the Law and into Grace.

Well said..I agree

GodsGrace101 · Jan 7, 2020

timothyu said:
Don't let the open mindedness on these forums fool you. Most people going to church have no idea of the foundation of Christianity nor care. They just either want hope or a sense they are accepted no matter what they do. That is why is is rare to hear sermons about the separation between world and Kingdom, world bad, Kingdom good, but rather focus on personal sins.

I agree with you very much that Jesus did come to set up the Kingdom of God.
Mathew 4:17

I'm sorry this is not preached more in our churches.

You made a statement in your post no. 72 which I don't understand 100%.
Are you saying that the early church (pre 325AD) did NOT believe in obeying God??

I agree with you that the church became corrupted after it became embroiled in politics.

GodsGrace101 · Jan 7, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello, Scripture says that there is No One who Does good..Romans 3:12, Ecclesiastes 7:20...Indeed there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and Never sins..
Ezekiel 36:27...I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws...

Of course there is no one who does good...
UNTIL we are saved, and then our deeds do become good due to the help of the Holy Spirit, who Jesus Himself said He would send to help us...
John 16:7
7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Please notice that Jesus said THE HELPER will come for us...the Holy Spirit helps us to be as God would want us to be, and to do as God would want us to do.

Jesus said this after declaring who He would draw to Him:
John 12:32
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

And those that would believe in Him,,,would be saved and helped by the Holy Spirit:
Romans 10:13
13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

Romans 10:9
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

Kenny'sID · Jan 7, 2020

Ilikecats said:
God causes you to repent it was never in your control..

Scripture to back that up, please?

Besides that makes no sense at all. We're basically put here so God can see who is going to act right of their own free will or not, then let those who do into heaven, and those that don't he will send to hell. So what would be the point of him controlling that process when he ends up with no more than a robot who did what he made them do? If that's all he wants, why not skip to the chase, make robots, wind them up, and drop them in heaven so God can sit on his throne and be entertained by a bunch of Chatty Kathy dolls?

My God is not quite so mindless as that.

Ilikecats · Jan 7, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Scripture to back that up, please?

Besides that makes no sense at all. We're basically put here so God can see who is going to act right of their own free will or not, then let those who do into heaven, and those that don't he will send to hell. So what would be the point of him controlling that process when he ends up with no more than a robot who did what he made them do? If that's all he wants, why not skip to the chase, make robots, wind them up, and drop them in heaven so God can sit on his throne and be entertained by a bunch of Chatty Kathy dolls?

My God is not quite so mindless as that.

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? Romans 2:4

Kenny'sID · Jan 7, 2020

Ilikecats said:
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? Romans 2:4

No scripture to back your claim as I asked?

How can you possibly expect us to believe you when you must know, no scriptural proof means false claim?

Ilikecats · Jan 7, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
No scripture to back your claim as I asked?

How can you possibly expect us to believe you when you must know, no scriptural proof means false claim?

I just gave you one.
Here is another:
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Corinthians 7:10

timothyu · Jan 7, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
Are you saying that the early church (pre 325AD) did NOT believe in obeying God??

I don't believe I made any reference to that. However since the Garden God says His will and man eventually turns around and does his own. That is what also happened when the church rejoined the world of man by way of partnering with the Empire rather than remaining an alternate way of life for mankind representing the Kingdom. It's stayed in that mode since and the twist in teachings reflect the change that otherwise would expose the hypocrisy.

GodsGrace101 · Jan 7, 2020

Ilikecats said:
I just gave you one.
Here is another:
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Corinthians 7:10

You posted:

Romans 2:4
4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

God is patient not wanting that anyone should perish...
2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Also, please notice the verse that comes immediately after Romans 2:4...
Romans 2:5-8
5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

1. It is our STUBBORNESS that causes us to have an unrepentant heart....why mention our stubberness IF God controls our salvation?

2. See verse 6: God will render to each person ACCORDING to his deeds...NOT according to whether or not GOD has predetermined their eternal fate.

and:

2 Corinthians 7:10
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvatin; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

This is speaking about the difference between the sorrow we feel in God and the sorrow we feel in a secular and worldly way (which we can know as regret)....two different types of sorrow. This has nothing to do with predestination.

Ilikecats · Jan 7, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
You posted:

Romans 2:4
4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

God is patient not wanting that anyone should perish...
2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Also, please notice the verse that comes immediately after Romans 2:4...
Romans 2:5-8
5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

1. It is our STUBBORNESS that causes us to have an unrepentant heart....why mention our stubberness IF God controls our salvation?

2. See verse 6: God will render to each person ACCORDING to his deeds...NOT according to whether or not GOD has predetermined their eternal fate.

and:

2 Corinthians 7:10
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvatin; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

This is speaking about the difference between the sorrow we feel in God and the sorrow we feel in a secular and worldly way (which we can know as regret)....two different types of sorrow. This has nothing to do with predestination.

Addressing point 1-God gives born again believers a new heart that desires to do his will. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, not by the written code. Romans 2:29
Addressing point 2- I agree with that. People will be judged for what they do.

The Godly sorrow mentioned states that it will lead to salvation. When you are saved you are saved. The sorrow is not from the world but from God himself.

Romansthruphilemon · Jan 7, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
We're basically put here so God can see who is going to act right of their own free will or not, then let those who do into heaven, and those that don't he will send to hell.

Completely wrong. Read Romans 3:

There is none righteous, no, not one.

There is none that doeth good, no, not one.

by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight

Being justified freely by his grace

GodsGrace101 · Jan 7, 2020

timothyu said:
I don't believe I made any reference to that. However since the Garden God says His will and man eventually turns around and does his own. That is what also happened when the church rejoined the world of man by way of partnering with the Empire rather than remaining an alternate way of life for mankind representing the Kingdom. It's stayed in that mode since and the twist in teachings reflect the change that otherwise would expose the hypocrisy.

Yes, I believe we're in agreement on this.
I was referring to church history..but you're basically saying the same concept.
The church should be saving souls and not partnering with the world (as I believe is happening today as never before).

P.S. Just to expound a little...
I believe the Early Church Fathers were pure in their understanding of the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I believe this purity became corrupted after 325 AD when Christianity was pronounced to be tolerated by Constantine under the Edict of Milan and later became the official government religion by the ruler after him...can't remember his name right now. This is when all the problem started regarding the church becoming a part of the govt.

Your WORKS won't do it.

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