Your weighting of evidence for Christianity

[cloudyday2]

So often it seems that debates on Christianity never go further than philosophy. I wanted to list some of my ideas for why a person might believe or disbelieve. If you could assign percentages to these reasons that would be interesting. Also you can assign negative percentages if the reason makes you doubt Christianity, and you can add additional reasons that I might have missed.

(1) philosophical arguments
(2) historical evidence
(3) merits of the Christian practices regardless of their source
(4) childhood or cultural indoctrination
(5) apparent blessings of God (non-miraculous)
(6) mystical experiences such as a conversion experience
(7) miracles or paranormal witnessed by you or a trusted friend
(8) social benefits (married a Christian, friendly people at church, etc.)

I suppose the total for a strong believer should be 100% and the total for a strong disbeliever should be 0%, and the total for an undecided person can be in the middle like 50%. Essentially the total is the probability of Christianity being true in your opinion.

 

[cloudyday2]

As an example, here are my weightings:

0% (1) philosophical arguments
-75% (2) historical evidence
0% (3) merits of the Christian practices regardless of their source
50% (4) childhood or cultural indoctrination
0% (5) apparent blessings of God (non-miraculous)
5% (6) mystical experiences such as a conversion experience
25% (7) miracles or paranormal witnessed by you or a trusted friend
0% (8) social benefits (married a Christian, friendly people at church, etc.)

Total is 5% probability that Christianity is true (assuming a very liberal definition of Christianity as opposed to a traditional or fundamentalist definition).

EDIT: If I changed the question from "liberal Christianity" to something more general such as "unspecified spirits or gods", then my historical objections would disappear and the probability might be as high as 75% instead of 5%.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So often it seems that debates on Christianity never go further than philosophy. I wanted to list some of my ideas for why a person might believe or disbelieve. If you could assign percentages to these reasons that would be interesting. Also you can assign negative percentages if the reason makes you doubt Christianity, and you can add additional reasons that I might have missed.

(1) philosophical arguments
(2) historical evidence
(3) merits of the Christian practices regardless of their source
(4) childhood or cultural indoctrination
(5) apparent blessings of God (non-miraculous)
(6) mystical experiences such as a conversion experience
(7) miracles or paranormal witnessed by you or a trusted friend
(8) social benefits (married a Christian, friendly people at church, etc.)

I suppose the total for a strong believer should be 100% and the total for a strong disbeliever should be 0%, and the total for an undecided person can be in the middle like 50%. Essentially the total is the probability of Christianity being true in your opinion.

I would propose that debates often don't go far because, despite all of the chutzpah about how this or that person just "lllllOOOOOOOVVeeessss" the Truth, many of us on both sides of the debate adhere to our respective views because they provide aesthetic value to us, value we find to be more pleasant or likable as a claim upon reality than the other claims.

Now, as far as assigning a percentage to the various (and arbitrary) list you've composed, I'm going to have to bow out because my understanding of epistemology makes the Christian faith a matter that goes beyond mere rationality. It can start with rational considerations, but it doesn't end there. In fact, assigning percentages to Christian belief structures 'smacks' of Street Epistemology, so I can't really dig it. And asking me to assign percentages to 'why' I believe is kind of like asking me why I like (and love) my wife ... when I think of her, I'm not thinking of a taxonomy of pros and cons, all percentaged, that then makes me attracted to her and prone to 'love' her.

 

[Dirk1540]

1 - 95% for general God, 60% for Christian God
2 - 80%
3 - 0%
4 - 0%
5 - 0%
6 - 99% for God in general, 80% for Christian God
7 - too closely tied to 6
8 - 0%

Just off the top of my head, to take a fun poll, give me the poll tomorrow and I might contradict my answers.

 

[cloudyday2]

Now, as far as assigning a percentage to the various (and arbitrary) list you've composed, I'm going to have to bow out because my understanding of epistemology makes the Christian faith a matter that goes beyond mere rationality. It can start with rational considerations, but it doesn't end there. In fact, assigning percentages to Christian belief structures 'smacks' of Street Epistemology, so I can't really dig it. And asking me to assign percentages to 'why' I believe is kind of like asking me why I like (and love) my wife ... when I think of her, I'm not thinking of a taxonomy of pros and cons, all percentaged, that then makes me attracted to her and prone to 'love' her.

It is the relative weights of these different reasons for believing/disbelieving that interests me. Christian apologists seem to focus exclusively on the philosophical arguments, but there are so many alternative reasons. Personally I prefer to hear about miracles, changed lives, and so forth.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It is the relative weights of these different reasons for believing/disbelieving that interests me. Christian apologists seem to focus exclusively on the philosophical arguments, but there are so many alternative reasons. Personally I prefer to hear about miracles, changed lives, and so forth.

I can understand that. We'd all like to experience some kind of positive manifestation of Christianity in the world, if possible. Unfortunately, I can't really put a percentage on the categories you've offered. In fact, when I first became a Christian, all I had was the Bible and a few new friends to encourage me in that direction, but then through time, some of the other categories became known to me and also became relavent to my faith as well.

 

[cloudyday2]

I can understand that. We'd all like to experience some kind of positive manifestation of Christianity in the world, if possible. Unfortunately, I can't really put a percentage on the categories you've offered. In fact, when I first became a Christian, all I had was the Bible and a few new friends to encourage me in that direction, but then through time, some of the other categories became known to me and also became relavent to my faith as well.

So how did you get from your initial state as an unbeliever to this next state of studying the Bible and having some new Christian friends? Did you see something attractive in these Christians that made you want to be like them? Were you disappointed with your life and wanting to make a change of some kind?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So how did you get from your initial state as an unbeliever to this next state of studying the Bible and having some new Christian friends? Did you see something attractive in these Christians that made you want to be like them? Were you disappointed with your life and wanting to make a change of some kind?

There was actually a confluence of factors in my becoming a Christian....But, did I see something attractive in one or two of these Christians? Lol! Why, yes....yes I did. In fact, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that part of my becoming a Christian was sparked by an attraction I had for a girl in one of my art classes in high school.

 

[cloudyday2]

There was actually a confluence of factors in my becoming a Christian....But, did I see something attractive in one or two of these Christians? Lol! Why, yes....yes I did. In fact, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that part of my becoming a Christian was sparked by an attraction I had for a girl in one of my art classes in high school.

Philo instead of philosophy

 

[Dave RP]

So often it seems that debates on Christianity never go further than philosophy. I wanted to list some of my ideas for why a person might believe or disbelieve. If you could assign percentages to these reasons that would be interesting. Also you can assign negative percentages if the reason makes you doubt Christianity, and you can add additional reasons that I might have missed.

(1) philosophical arguments
(2) historical evidence
(3) merits of the Christian practices regardless of their source
(4) childhood or cultural indoctrination
(5) apparent blessings of God (non-miraculous)
(6) mystical experiences such as a conversion experience
(7) miracles or paranormal witnessed by you or a trusted friend
(8) social benefits (married a Christian, friendly people at church, etc.)

I suppose the total for a strong believer should be 100% and the total for a strong disbeliever should be 0%, and the total for an undecided person can be in the middle like 50%. Essentially the total is the probability of Christianity being true in your opinion.

Interesting to an extent, and some of it I'd struggle to explain but here goes anyway:

(1) philosophical arguments = -50%, I simply can't see any philosophical arguments for god
(2) historical evidence = 0% i think for what I've read that Jesus almost certainly existed, but no way was he divine, the son of god or any such thing
(3) merits of the Christian practices regardless of their source = +20% Some Christian practices and instructions are quite nice and beneficial to society as a whole.
(4) childhood or cultural indoctrination = 0% - Thankfully I was not brought up in a church going household and therefore was not indoctrinated and could make my own mind up.
(5) apparent blessings of God (non-miraculous) = -75% - I've seen no evidence of any "blessings of god" anywhere. Actually when you think about it, if god really cared so much about his creation, he'd make himself a lot more visible and that would get people to believe. His utter silence in the world convinces me he only exists in peoples heads.
(6) mystical experiences such as a conversion experience = -75% - I've never had such an experience
(7) miracles or paranormal witnessed by you or a trusted friend = -75% - I know of no one who's had such an experience
(8) social benefits (married a Christian, friendly people at church, etc.) = +20% - My current partner/ lady friend is a committed Christian, although I didn't meet her through Church and didn't know when I met her, but I'm very fond of her.

I think for me you missed off biggest reason I am a non believer in the god of Christianity, which is that the Bible is such a massively flawed document, to me it is so ludicrously flawed that it simply cannot be "the word of god" because if it were, he's a pretty poor god. That would have been -100% for me.

 

[cloudyday2]

I think for me you missed off biggest reason I am a non believer in the god of Christianity, which is that the Bible is such a massively flawed document, to me it is so ludicrously flawed that it simply cannot be "the word of god" because if it were, he's a pretty poor god. That would have been -100% for me.

That's a good point. The Bible is an important reason. It can be a reason to believe or a reason to disbelieve, and there can be different specific reasons in both directions. For me the Bible is evidence that the beliefs of Judaism and Christianity evolved gradually as opposed to having been revealed through Moses or Jesus. That is my biggest reason for disbelieving in the Abrahamic religions. On the other hand, millions of people find the Bible a source of personal divine inspiration. Sometimes I have felt that God was talking to me through the Bible. The Bible would seem to open to a particular verse that responded to a concern. Of course our minds are tricky.

 

[Dave RP]

That's a good point. The Bible is an important reason. It can be a reason to believe or a reason to disbelieve, and there can be different specific reasons in both directions. For me the Bible is evidence that the beliefs of Judaism and Christianity evolved gradually as opposed to having been revealed through Moses or Jesus. That is my biggest reason for disbelieving in the Abrahamic religions. On the other hand, millions of people find the Bible a source of personal divine inspiration. Sometimes I have felt that God was talking to me through the Bible. The Bible would seem to open to a particular verse that responded to a concern. Of course our minds are tricky.

I think it's true that any well written document can feel as if it's "speaking to us". I've read many books, fiction and non fiction and enjoyed the message, felt moved by the story, felt inspired by the words and there's no doubt that many of the stories attributed to Jesus could do that, I just don't think they're divinely inspired.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That's a good point. The Bible is an important reason. It can be a reason to believe or a reason to disbelieve, and there can be different specific reasons in both directions. For me the Bible is evidence that the beliefs of Judaism and Christianity evolved gradually as opposed to having been revealed through Moses or Jesus. That is my biggest reason for disbelieving in the Abrahamic religions. On the other hand, millions of people find the Bible a source of personal divine inspiration. Sometimes I have felt that God was talking to me through the Bible. The Bible would seem to open to a particular verse that responded to a concern. Of course our minds are tricky.

I responded a few months back to another individual here on CF who had a similar OP request, so I'll just add this in to help you decipher (in general and without explanation of ALL of the confluences involved) the way in which I've accounted for my Christian faith:

In sum, it would be three basic things:

1) I don't see that the Skeptical/Atheist position is coherent enough to preclude the truth of Christianity.

2) I see the History of Christianity, along with the Bible, as sufficient information to nudge me toward faith in Christ (God), but I see this while considering everything philosophically--that is through the influence of Logic, Metaphysics, Epistemology, Axiology--and not just "by the Bible alone."

3) I believe that even though God has not specifically answered most of the prayers I've offered up during my life, as far as I can tell (or at least not in a way clearly discernible to me), I still sense that He did orchestrate how I met the woman who is now my wife; and this, in a way, was the answer to an actual, half-baked prayer I sent up about 25 years ago.