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At least in the US, everyone does have an equal chance to succeed or fail on their own accord but far too many don't even want to try.
You are free to place me on ignore if you wish.
Yes, success in the US is a hard road but in reality people are only limited by themselves. Heck, I heard about a guy last night who made over $1 million in 2005 just selling t-shirts. He started selling them out of his trunk.
Also, remember Paul's example, for he had learned to be content with much and with little.
Your youth was taken into account my young friend. No worries.
You have to understand, that I never denied the basic needs. Only the attitude that people who sit back and expect those basic needs to be met by others while being guilty of laziness, gluttony etc. Biblically, they must be held accountable. Simply meeting the basic physical needs is not enough. Christs example is one that included meeting both physical and spiritual needs.
I do understand that from your view my stance seems cold hearted, but really it isn't. It is to encourage people to be the people God intends thems to be. And here in the US, we do have equal chances and equal opportunities, it is that it requires to much effort for some people and we would be wrong to enable them to continue in sin.
I do understand that from your view my stance seems cold hearted, but really it isn't. It is to encourage people to be the people God intends thems to be. And here in the US, we do have equal chances and equal opportunities, it is that it requires to much effort for some people and we would be wrong to enable them to continue in sin.
I don't agree with those stats because in each case they take into consideration illegals.[FONT="]I do apreciate your calmness, but that doesn't make me agree with you.
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[FONT="]1) How can someone who isn't provided with the basic material needs for a decent human life be guilty of gluttony?
2) Yes, that is Christ's example. But hey, don't you neglect the physical side then, it's not an either-or case! You can't blame children who are born into poverty in the midst of one of the richest countries of the world, of "laziness".
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"In the US, you have equal chances and opportunities"? Are you absolutely sure you want to lock that answer? What if we go and look at some empirical statistics for evidence?
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm
Here's a statistic back from 1992. Not the most recent one, but still recent enough to give a general picture. It compares the US with some other rich western nations. I'll use here the countries that are most familiar with myself, the Scandinavian nations, Norway, Sweden and Finland. For the most part, they don't differ drastically between each other in these matters. Okay, let's take a look.
Inequality of income (o=most equal 100=most unequal):
Sweden & Norway: 60
USA: 100
Poverty level:
Norway: 5,2%
USA: 17,1%
Childrean under the poverty level:
Norway: 4,8%
USA: 22,4%
Deaths from malnutrition (per million):
Norway: men 0 women 1
USA: men 7 women 13
Percentage of population covered by public health care:
Scandinavian countries: 100%
USA: 40%
Infant mortality rate (per 1,000):
Finland 5,9
USA 10,4
Death rate of 1-4 year olds (per 200,00/year):
Finland 53,3
USA 101,5
Plus, the fact that in America the education of the child is heavily dependent on the wealth of the parents.
Plus, the illiteracy statistic, that I didn't find on that site...
Still think your systems offer and 'equal oportunity' for everyone? I think that's just void rhetorics that Americans like to churn out but in reality they are living within a big bubble of illusion if they think the U.S. somehow shows the world what it is to have 'equal opportunities'. In fact, out of all the 'rich countries' of the world, the U.S. seems to offer most unequal opportunities to its citizens. The rate of child poverty, for example, comes very close to that of Mexico, the place where most of your illegal immgrants come from. Turkey is ahead of the US in that statistic. And you are one of the richest nations in the world, in economic terms, but still such number of poverty exists!
The bible demonstrates what's the greatest sin for a society in Ezekiel 16:
49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
And this, like we know, was a perfect breeding ground for all other kinds of sins to 'flourish', too, and so Lot and his family ended up having the gay rapists stalking his daughters and stuff like that.
Stating something like "we don't owe them anything just based on the fact that they exist" is the perfect first step in opening the floodgates for nothing less than a new Sodom. I hope you don't want to be an agent in that process.
Nothing like dying while on the waiting list for that "awesome" state medical care *snerk*I don't agree with those stats because in each case they take into consideration illegals.
It is not my place as an American citizen to take care of criminals and it should not be my money that does it.
I just love how all the euro's think their way works. When ultimately it still comes from your pocket. I don't want to be taxed as they are taxed and I'll be danged if my hard earned money is used to make life comfortable for an illegal.
Say that to a child who is born in the midst of poverty in the middle of a rich nation.Nothing like dying while on the waiting list for that "awesome" state medical care *snerk*
You don't have to agree with me.
I was merely trying to show that we can agree to disagree and be civil as brothers in Christ. If you honestly believe I ignore the physical needs then I must not have made myself clear in my earlier posts, or you refuse to see it.
Yes, the poor can most certainly be guilty of gluttony, I have seen it first hand. Just as they can be guilty of any other sin.
The amount of wealth a person has or does not have will not protect them against any and all sins. We can all fall into the same traps. It is not our jobs to make sure everyone has an equal amount of wealth. Nor is it our job to meet all the needs of all people. Go read what the Bible requires of widows. As I said earlier, help those with real needs and hold people accountable for their own responsibilities. I'm sure I sound cold to you but nothing could be further from the truth and your accusations that I'm trying to set up a new Sodom are unfounded.
I would suggest you reread my posts in light of what Scripture really teaches and shows on such issues and make sure you read all the passages, not just the ones you think make you right. BTW, Sodom was not just destroyed for being inhospitable/ how they handled the poor etc... Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
I don't agree with those stats because in each case they take into consideration illegals.
It is not my place as an American citizen to take care of criminals and it should not be my money that does it.
I just love how all the euro's think their way works. When ultimately it still comes from your pocket. I don't want to be taxed as they are taxed and I'll be danged if my hard earned money is used to make life comfortable for an illegal.
In this country a "poor" legal child is given all the medical care they need...it's called "Medicaid" and is free to the poorest, and send down to the not quite as poor...Say that to a child who is born in the midst of poverty in the middle of a rich nation.
In this country a "poor" legal child is given all the medical care they need...it's called "Medicaid" and is free to the poorest, and send down to the not quite as poor...
The taxes that go towards that program I don't mind so much....except of course when it's extended to include illegal immigrants...
You forget one thing in your nice little world. What works for those who like the status quo doe not work here where we push to reach for the Dream.There is a HUGE number of children, for example, living in the U.S. How big, do you think, should the proportion of illegal immigrants be to actually make a significant contribution in these 'child statiscis'? Nearly 5 times more 'innocent children' have the lot of living under the poverty line in the U.S. than in Scandinavia. How much different do you think this would be with the illegal immigrant children excluded from the count?
I agree. Send them the message that Jesus loves them but they still aren't allowed to break the laws of your country.
I happily pay taxes to keep up the system we have had here for long. I like the fact that I can help those otherwise less fortunate individuals to have the same opportunities as I, with free health care, free education and such. That reduces bitterness and envy between what could be called as 'classes', and is likely to decrease the causes for violence stemming from bitterness and rebellion attitude. And the Bible advices me to not fall into bitterness even if a couple of my cents ended up in the hands of 'exploiters' of the system. May God bless those cents and the people they ended up with. However, I think there definetily IS room for reform in the taxation of Finland. The progressive taxation definetily gets a little too progressive at some point, and it tends to discourage entrepreunership. That, for example, should be fixed. But otherwise, yes, time has proven that this system kinda does work. Not perfectly, but reasonably well anyways.
There may be as many as 20 million illegal immigrants in the US today - more than twice the official Census Bureau estimate, according to Bear Stearns researchers Robert Justich and Betty Ng.There is a HUGE number of children, for example, living in the U.S. How big, do you think, should the proportion of illegal immigrants be to actually make a significant contribution in these 'child statiscis'? Nearly 5 times more 'innocent children' have the lot of living under the poverty line in the U.S. than in Scandinavia. How much different do you think this would be with the illegal immigrant children excluded from the count?
I agree. Send them the message that Jesus loves them but they still aren't allowed to break the laws of your country.
I happily pay taxes to keep up the system we have had here for long. I like the fact that I can help those otherwise less fortunate individuals to have the same opportunities as I, with free health care, free education and such. That reduces bitterness and envy between what could be called as 'classes', and is likely to decrease the causes for violence stemming from bitterness and rebellion attitude. And the Bible advices me to not fall into bitterness even if a couple of my cents ended up in the hands of 'exploiters' of the system. May God bless those cents and the people they ended up with. However, I think there definetily IS room for reform in the taxation of Finland. The progressive taxation definetily gets a little too progressive at some point, and it tends to discourage entrepreunership. That, for example, should be fixed. But otherwise, yes, time has proven that this system kinda does work. Not perfectly, but reasonably well anyways.
You forget one thing in your nice little world. What works for those who like the status quo doe not work here where we push to reach for the Dream.
IF you feel that your tax money should make a criminals life more pleasent then I pity you.
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