Your view on birth control?

TwinCrier · Aug 22, 2005

Now pregnancy is like a car accident? I'm sorry, if you feel pregnancy and children are a bad thing that should be avoided, no argument I make will ever convince you. Woe to the stiff-necked. In any case, I can take comfort in knowing that certain peoiple are out of the gene pool. Bye.
http://www.freewebs.com/christianity-vs-evangelicalism/bible-contraception-birth-control-murder.htm

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Aug 22, 2005

TwinCrier said:
Now pregnancy is like a car accident? I'm sorry, if you feel pregnancy and children are a bad thing that should be avoided, no argument I make will ever convince you. Woe to the stiff-necked. In any case, I can take comfort in knowing that certain peoiple are out of the gene pool. Bye.
http://www.freewebs.com/christianity-vs-evangelicalism/bible-contraception-birth-control-murder.htm

The logical fallacies in that piece of writing are so numerous there is no way to really tackle them all. The exegetics are bad all around and the translation methods used to squeeze the doctrine into the few verses used are quite frankly abhorent. There is no argumentation there that will hold up to scrutiny. If you are convicted to not use birth control in any form then by all means follow your conscience but the very fact of the matter is that aside from methods that kill the unborn there is little Biblical argument to be made and no Biblical argument against block methods. To argue this man is wrong to use birth control to prevent his wife from dying you must also be prepared to argue that self defense is wrong.

No Swansong · Aug 23, 2005

TwinCrier said:
Now pregnancy is like a car accident? I'm sorry, if you feel pregnancy and children are a bad thing that should be avoided, no argument I make will ever convince you. Woe to the stiff-necked. In any case, I can take comfort in knowing that certain peoiple are out of the gene pool. Bye.
http://www.freewebs.com/christianity-vs-evangelicalism/bible-contraception-birth-control-murder.htm

Wow you latch onto an analogy and then create a strawman argument from it. And yet you refuse to address the more glaring issues and questions. Why TwinCrier do you continue to ignore questions put directly to you?

Such as;
If procreation is the only intended purpose of sexual intercourse then what about those who are born sterile?, those who become sterile because of disease? those who have gone through menopause? Surely if procreation is the only intended purpose of sexual intercourse then there is no biblical reason for these folk to make love.''

No matter you will not answer these questions either. At least TwinCrier those who hold a position opposite you, have the courtesy to answer you.

I would argue that you are the one who is stiff necked and I truly pity you for taking comfort that certain people will be out of the Gene Pool.

No Swansong · Aug 24, 2005

I don't believe that this thread is productive at this point.
TwinCrier I have read many of your posts on other issues and I tend to agree with you most of the time. I have respect for your opinion, your love and knowledge of scripture, and your concern for the lost. At this point I feel that my further participation in this thread would constitute argument for the sake of argument and I have no desire for that. Nor do I have any more desire to defend my reputation.

Thanks to all of those who have shared their view. As far as I am concerned this thread is closed for me.

romaneagle13 · Sep 5, 2005

kidsminister said:
I don't really believe this is true, because my husband and I have been using Natural Family Planning for almost three years (since we decided that the pill had too many emotional side effects for me!) and have no kids, but here's a joke I heard once:

"What do you call couples who use Natural Family Planning?

Answer: Parents."

Not to be critical, but I am a bit soured on the NFP idea. My parents, who are practicing Catholics, decided to use it after my brother and I were born. They felt that two kids was enough...they now have four children!

TwinCrier · Sep 5, 2005

jtbdad said:
...If procreation is the only intended purpose of sexual intercourse then what about those who are born sterile?, those who become sterile because of disease? those who have gone through menopause? Surely if procreation is the only intended purpose of sexual intercourse then there is no biblical reason for these folk to make love.''.

When did I ever imply that sex is only for those able to have children? I'm just saying it's evil to have sex and forbid the natural couse God has planned. No one knows when or if God will bless them with children. It's the idea that chemicals and devices should be used to interfere with the natural action. If all you want from sex is self gratification, how is that different from touching yourself? We as Christians should base our view of marital relations on the bible, not on the world view pumped through our television sets.

TwinCrier · Sep 5, 2005

romaneagle13 said:
Not to be critical, but I am a bit soured on the NFP idea. My parents, who are practicing Catholics, decided to use it after my brother and I were born. They felt that two kids was enough...they now have four children!

They felt? Isn't that nice, they felt two kids were enough. Do kids 3 and 4 feel the same way you do?

kidsminister · Sep 6, 2005

romaneagle13 said:
Not to be critical, but I am a bit soured on the NFP idea. My parents, who are practicing Catholics, decided to use it after my brother and I were born. They felt that two kids was enough...they now have four children!

LOL!! Guess we're just lucky, then .

Seriously, though, I know it's a possibility, and I'd be very happy should I actually conceive (and I'd better be - multiple births run on all but one side of both my husband's and my families!!).

kidsminister · Sep 6, 2005

TwinCrier said:
I'm just saying it's evil to have sex and forbid the natural couse God has planned. No one knows when or if God will bless them with children. It's the idea that chemicals and devices should be used to interfere with the natural action. If all you want from sex is self gratification, how is that different from touching yourself? We as Christians should base our view of marital relations on the bible, not on the world view pumped through our television sets.

Still looking for Scripture that supports this ...

Since this is a fundamentalist board, and from my understanding, part of the very definition of a fundamentalist is that you (we) take the Scriptures literally, I'm still looking for a literal, direct command from God that tells us not to use birth control. If you read ancient history, birth control has been around just about as long as birth...And God, being all-knowing, would have had something to say about it regardless, if He felt it was an important issue.

I'm not talking about "children are a heritage from the Lord" type verses. Nor am I talking about the story of Onan. I am looking for a command from the Lord NOT to use birth control.

I am not interested in debating. If you can provide me Scripture that says that, great. If not...oh, well. Life will go on. People are dying in New Orleans by the thousands. The world is going to hell and needs Jesus, and I've already spent way too much of the time that my Lord has given me on this earth discussing this issue.

So ciao!!

Wolfman66 · Sep 6, 2005

I hesitated to weigh in on this but here goes. (Im either gutsy or have a death wish.)
For birth control to be an issue one has to engage in "sexual" activity. It is common knowledge among some of us that there is actually a special food that a bride can eat before the marriage is "consummated" that will keep her from even a remote interest in "the sexual acts".
That special food is.................wedding cake.
(Im in trouble now for those who arent laughing at my quip.)

TwinCrier · Sep 6, 2005

kidsminister said:
Still looking for Scripture that supports this ...

.....
I'm not talking about "children are a heritage from the Lord" type verses. Nor am I talking about the story of Onan. I am looking for a command from the Lord NOT to use birth control.....

Right, you want scripture, just not the ones that directly address the issue. Much like how the specific verse that forbids getting tattoos is dismissed by those who want tattoos. As I said before....
Even if there were a verse that said 'Thou shalt not use any method of contraception.' it would certainly be dismissed as being a misinterpratation of the original Greek.
What is wrong with Christians today that they want the curse of barreness over the blessing of children?

kidsminister · Sep 6, 2005

Okay...this is the third time that I have jumped into this discussion hoping that someone will enlighten me with Scripture that supports the anti birth control position. And this is the third time that I have been met with a sarcastic comment.

So I am done with this discussion for good this time.

I have better ways I can make use of my time.

Wolfman66 · Sep 6, 2005

Im sorry. I thought the wedding cake joke was pretty funny when I first heard it. Maybe I shouldnt joke? Sorry, I just have to laugh sometimes.

Macano · Sep 6, 2005

Not only do I think that birth control is not a sin, but I would say that in many cases not using it is irresponsible. I see so many families pump out kids in the area I live in, in the name of the dominant religion here, and yet they cannot afford them. Now our schools our bursting at the seams and our property taxes are ridiculously high, in part to pay for all these kids education that these people shouldn't be having. It is irresponsible to have kids you cannot afford, and it places a burden on society in the form of higher social care costs and taxes. I don't want to have to pay for your kid! Not all people with large familes fall in this category, but most I personally know of do, and they see nothing wrong with it. *sigh* I gotta move out of this state.

KristiLee · Sep 7, 2005

My husband and I do not use any man made form of birth control. The Bible clearly shows that God is quite capable of making a woman barren and also take away her barrenness: Sarai in Gen 11:30 who later bore Isaac in Gen 21:1-7; Rachel in Gen 29:31 who later bore Joseph in Gen 30:22-24; Manoah's wife in Judges 13:2-3 who later bore Samson in Judges 13:24 and; Elizabeth in Luke 1:7, 36 who later bore John the baptist in Luke 1:57.

So we trust that the Lord will provide and withhold according to His plan and His will. I don't think people should look at this foolishly, and with a self-serving motive as, "using God as birth control." We are also financially fit, love, serve, and trust the Lord Jesus with all our hearts, and live daily praying His will be done.

If you don't have that kind of a relationship with God, I agree with the harmless methods: condoms, sponge, even withdrawing, none are 100%, but it is better than 0%.

I don't believe in anything that can mess with your hormones, or keep you from having your cycle or any method that doesn't require you to change it for 5 years is at all acceptable. If it can do all that to your body, it can't be good for a baby.

Just some of my thoughts! God bless!

Ohiomom2 · Sep 9, 2005

Macano said:
Not only do I think that birth control is not a sin, but I would say that in many cases not using it is irresponsible. I see so many families pump out kids in the area I live in, in the name of the dominant religion here, and yet they cannot afford them. Now our schools our bursting at the seams and our property taxes are ridiculously high, in part to pay for all these kids education that these people shouldn't be having. It is irresponsible to have kids you cannot afford, and it places a burden on society in the form of higher social care costs and taxes. I don't want to have to pay for your kid! Not all people with large familes fall in this category, but most I personally know of do, and they see nothing wrong with it. *sigh* I gotta move out of this state.

How do you know these families can't afford their blessings? My husband was asked at work how can we even try for a third when the lady who was asking has four and she can barely afford them and they have two incomes. He told her the Lord will provide and she was shocked by his response. We aren't on welfare and never will be, I will continue to stay at home, we have health insurance, our own home, two vehicles one of which is paid off, food, clothing. Our children do not and will not want for anything. Property taxes and full public schools are not the product of big families. These are the product of politicians who won't pay teachers what they should so they cram students in so they can be taught and property taxes go higher to support road work and other buildings cities feel they must erect. We are a homeschooling, quiverfull family and I hope our neighbors aren't so ignorant as to blame their taxes and school crowding on us, if I misunderstood your comment I apologize. On the other hand I don't feel we should have to pay school taxes on schools that we will never use. Why should we support an institution that we don't hold in high esteem?

Ohiomom2 · Sep 9, 2005

I have seen that people are saying there are little to no side effects on barrier methods such as diapharms and condoms when there is. Condoms can create a yeast infection in a women as well some women may be allergice to latex. If a woman develops a YI she has to go on medication then that hinders the husband and wife from having sex because of treatment. Diaphrams left in place for long periods of time can cause unusual cells to develop in the uterus and cervix in effect causing cancer. Little to no side effect, hmmm I wonder?

kidsminister · Sep 9, 2005

Wolfman66 said:
Im sorry. I thought the wedding cake joke was pretty funny when I first heard it. Maybe I shouldnt joke? Sorry, I just have to laugh sometimes.

Hey! I totally wasn't referring to you...I appreciate a good joke as much as the next person .

The sarcastic comments I was talking about were things like, "Well, gee, I'm so glad you've decided to trust yourself instead of God," or "Isn't it nice that you can twist the Scriptures to make them say what you want them to say?"

Things like that (not EXACTLY those comments...but I am too tired and too lazy to go back and quote the exact ones. I just wanted to give you the jist of what I've seen here!).

I am just tired of the futile argument - of being accused of having no values, or even (as one person implied awhile back) being supportive of abortion! Just for the record, I believe that abortion is NOT an option, and I don't even use BC myself. Other than that my husband and I sort of practice NFP, and not very religiously.

So I'm not even talking about myself when I ask where in the Bible is the use of birth control prohibited. I understand that it says children are a blessing. I understand that Onan was struck dead for "spilling his seed," which has been used as a metaphor for BC, masturbation, and even "proof" that anything between a husband and wife other than full-on intercourse is a sin. So...the only thing I have ever asked on this board is for someone to provide a clear, direct command from God in Scripture that says it is wrong for a couple to practice birth control. BC was around back then. And even if it wasn't, God is all-knowing, and knew that it would be an issue for us. So did He say something or not? If He didn't, then why in heaven's name are there 20+ pages of argument about it on a fundamentalist board?

Just wondering.

TwinCrier · Sep 9, 2005

Okay, the "clear, direct command from God in Scripture" isn't going to be there. At least not if you insist on dismissing the entire bit about Onan. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there isn't a verse that says Thou shalt not use contraception. It isn't there. What is there, repeatedly is that children are a blessing, a gift, barreness a curse, sex is meant for marriage, and our bodies are the temple of God. Why some continue to insist that God wants them to alter the natural function of the body, the main purpose of sex, with pills and devices that can harm the body is beyond my understanding. I guess what's good enough for the world is now acceptable for the followers of Christ.... well, maybe not.

jmikey · Sep 9, 2005

Christians shouldn't be worrying about birth control unless they are married and do not want to have children yet. If you're not married sexual acts should be abstained from. Otherwise it's called fornication. It also fits under the category of sexual immorality.

Your view on birth control?

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