Your thoughts?

[muichimotsu]

I don't know why we need to tear down men in order to build up women.

When women are marginalized, men need to have that bias society has had towards them for the most part for millennia (especially in the west) brought to the forefront, it's not bringing them down, it's calling out inequity in society

 

[muichimotsu]

I'd suggest balance.

Which can mean relegating patriarchy and the general misogyny that comes about from it (along with other issues) to the rubbish bin of history, not forgetting, but leaving it aside as an influence for the present, when we have better examples

 

[Tolworth John]

Christianity, as seen in the Bible values and honours women above the norms of the society of the 1st February, and above that of other religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam etc all of which place women in a lower status to that of men.

 

[dlamberth]

Christianity, as seen in the Bible values and honours women above the norms of the society of the 1st February, and above that of other religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam etc all of which place women in a lower status to that of men.

Unfortunately, that's not how it's played out in history.

 

[Tolworth John]

Unfortunately, that's not how it's played out in history.

Yes, but because people have not followed the teaching does not make it invalid.

Also what do you base any claim you make for equality on?

I am not aware of any philosophical ideas expressing the need for equality xcept in Christian thoughts and ideas.

 

[dlamberth]

Yes, but because people have not followed the teaching does not make it invalid.

That's very true as a "teaching". But how it's been implemented, historical, paints a very different picture.

Also what do you base any claim you make for equality on?

Things like Love, compassion, justice, honesty, connection and being a more human, Human Being come to mind. But I wouldn't use the word "equality". I think "balance" is a better image.

I am not aware of any philosophical ideas expressing the need for equality xcept in Christian thoughts and ideas.

I have a whole different perspective on that.

 

[Tolworth John]

Things like Love, compassion, justice, honesty, connection and being a more human, Human Being come to mind. But I wouldn't use the word "equality". I think "balance" is a better image.

And every culture would talk about these as well as the need to comply with cultural traditions resulting in no change.
Get to know Muslims or Hindus and see how there traditions override any western influence about the equal treatment of women.

 

[dlamberth]

And every culture would talk about these as well as the need to comply with cultural traditions resulting in no change.
Get to know Muslims or Hindus and see how there traditions override any western influence about the equal treatment of women.

I'm a bit confused here. Are you arguing that because other religions have cultural/religious issues with women that we shouldn't strive to do things differently?

Christianity has come a long ways in regard to women. It wasn't all that long ago that women in the Christian world were treated no differently than how Muslims treat their women today. But I think there's still a ways to go. Particularly, in looking at the OP, I'd like to hear their voice on the human aspect of Jesus because that's sorely missing.

 

[muichimotsu]

Christianity, as seen in the Bible values and honours women above the norms of the society of the 1st February, and above that of other religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam etc all of which place women in a lower status to that of men.

Except that doesn't necessarily follow in terms of the manifestations we see even in the bible, even if the idea is that women are meant to be honored (sometimes simply in the idea that in heaven we'll all be equal, which is a non-issue in terms of the present where women are still marginalized relative to men, even if things have progressed to some positive outcomes, like women's suffrage, no fault divorce, etc)

The manifestations you see in other religions are no more an indication that they disrespect women than the selective idea you could cherry pick in Xianity suggests that they "respect" women when you can find far more examples where women are treated like chattel, to be shifted from family to family, that they can be raped as a prisoner of war as long as you allow them to mourn their family for a month after you took them as "spoils" (Deuteronomy 21:10-14), that the woman is as guilty as the man for her rape if it took place in the city (Deuteronomy 22:23-24) and many other examples, not just the OT, but the NT as well, especially the epistles.

The societal norms were part of the issue, yes, but acting like the bible's own norms about women were any better ignores that complementarianism essentially still puts the woman in a needlessly submissive role for no reason other than that it "seems" natural (based on literal ideas about Adam and Eve, with her coming from his rib in the creation narrative and patriarchal nonsense where a woman submits to her husband when the marriage should be an equal partnership, not one person dominating the other)

 

[muichimotsu]

I'm a bit confused here. Are you arguing that because other religions have cultural/religious issues with women that we shouldn't strive to do things differently?

Christianity has come a long ways in regard to women. It wasn't all that long ago that women in the Christian world were treated no differently than how Muslims treat their women today. But I think there's still a ways to go. Particularly, in looking at the OP, I'd like to hear their voice on the human aspect of Jesus because that's sorely missing.

Sounds suspiciously like afallacy of relative privation or even tu quoque: either, "oh women have it way better than before, thus there's no sexism" or, "Hey look at how badly the Muslims treat their women, we're so much better,"

 

[muichimotsu]

And every culture would talk about these as well as the need to comply with cultural traditions resulting in no change.
Get to know Muslims or Hindus and see how there traditions override any western influence about the equal treatment of women.

How is it fair to paint all of them with a broad brush when we're seeing more break free of such nonsense in some form or fashion? Cultural norms should never be used as shackles to prevent progress, because that's the kind of tradition that is toxic and only brings society down in the long run

 

[lordjeff]

I don't know why we need to tear down men in order to build up women.

Get the impression that happens a lot now in American society. It's finding the next victim group, degrading the perceived cause that made them the victim & then trying to even the score.