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Your question brings up a question that has always puzzled me in regard to evolution from origin. I don't know how cells or organisms grow or function, but how does any living life form survive its particular infancy stage, one of some duration period anyway, without a matured parent?Oh, Goodness! Sorry, I have to ask - In what universe do you think that the following scenario would possibly be true:
Let's say an organism of some sort gives birth to two offspring - one is the aforementioned cluster of tumors, the other a fully functional life form. Is it your opinion that of these two offspring, the cluster of tumors will go on to breed and the fully functional life form would not??
This is "Natural Selection 101".
bacteria do it all the time - actually pretty much any single-celled life form does it. Quite a few multi-celled organisms do this without quip too - trees, plants, turtles...Your question brings up a question that has always puzzled me in regard to evolution from origin. I don't know how cells or organisms grow or function, but how does any living life form survive its particular infancy stage, one of some duration period anyway, without a matured parent?
I get that, not in a knowledgeable scientific way of course, but how would any infant stage life form that remotely resembles a human survive?bacteria do it all the time - actually pretty much any single-celled life form does it. Quite a few multi-celled organisms do this without quip too - trees, plants, turtles...
they seem to do just fine so perhaps some studying of these life forms would help?
Not sure what you're asking - a turtle is an example of a quite advanced tetrapod that is self-sufficient from the outset - are you asking how we did it? If so, then we didn't. Our lineage of parenting extends well back before we diverged to become humans.I get that, not in a knowledgeable scientific way of course, but how would any infant stage life form that remotely resembles a human survive?
At some point on the evolution time-scale eventual humans had to make an initial step to human-like form, two arms and legs etc. How did the first one survive without being given adult care?Not sure what you're asking - a turtle is an example of a quite advanced tetrapod that is self-sufficient from the outset - are you asking how we did it? If so, then we didn't. Our lineage of parenting extends well back before we became humans.
Well, its parents would've looked after it. we as first humans would've been a very gradual and imperceptible shift from what we were before it, just as every other form of life was cared for (or came about fully independent and self-caring) from its parentsAt some point on the evolution time-scale eventual humans had to make an initial step to human-like form, two arms and legs etc. How did the first one survive without being given adult care?
Just from a common sense perspective there would have to be a "first" caring parent, one that could help an infant survive. Here we are supposedly millions of years later and an infant can't survive on its own. That seems more like regression than evolution. I just can't see the first transitional phases to human-like form, which requires an infancy period, in a world that would have eliminated it pretty quickly.Well, its parents would've looked after it. we as first humans would've been a very gradual and imperceptible shift from what we were before it, just as every other form of life was cared for (or came about fully independent and self-caring) from its parents
Just from a common sense perspective there would have to be a "first" caring parent, one that could help an infant survive.
I just can't see the first transitional phases to human-like form, which requires an infancy period, in a world that would have eliminated it pretty quickly.
Well, it depends on the conditions that led to caring parents. Certain environments (particularly ones favouring herds or groups) will be more conducive to parental care,thereby selecting the organisms that are better able to care and protect their relatively few young over those that don't. This is again dependent on the environment, such as groups of upright walking apes on the plains of sub-saharan africa tend to suit parental care than say a green leatherback turtle having to hang around a particular beach to care for its many, many offspring.Just from a common sense perspective there would have to be a "first" caring parent, one that could help an infant survive. Here we are supposedly millions of years later and an infant can't survive on its own. That seems more like regression than evolution. I just can't see the first transitional phases to human-like form, which requires an infancy period, in a world that would have eliminated it pretty quickly.
There are various levels of "infant care" found in the natural world ranging from none-at-all to the human version where we typically care for youth right up into adult hood. All it would really take for this to evolve is selective pressure favoring infant care in certain populations.
Caring for infants isn't unique to humans and likely would have evolved long before humans appeared.
perhaps you keep missing it - the parental care was in place well before the first human. In fact, if you really want to get the gist, here's some results of babies with the clutch reflex to hang onto their hairy parents that we're all still born with, despite humans no longer being so hairy these days...I'm not talking about an established species. Think "first" transitional human-like being(s) requiring an infancy period. How many of these would have to occur for even one to survive a lengthy period before maturity on its own?
There's also never going to be a real jump in requirements from mother to child.I'm not talking about an established species. Think "first" transitional human-like being(s) requiring an infancy period. How many of these would have to occur for even one to survive a lengthy period before maturity on its own?
I'm not talking about an established species.
Think "first" transitional human-like being(s) requiring an infancy period. How many of these would have to occur for even one to survive a lengthy period before maturity on its own?
What kind of parenting behaviors did the chimps' ancestor species engage in? And the ancestor species of those ancestors? And so on...I don't think you guys are recognizing my question. I know chimps are good parents, but how did the "first" chimp(s) or chimp-like creature make it to adulthood? Maybe you're suggesting they crawled a while and walked a while through the transition phase, but that still doesn't explain (to me anyway) how the first one(s) could survive some form of infancy.
Again, their Parents looked after them! Cared parenting extends all the way back to our fishy ancestors - before land animals were even a thing. Remember though, all forms of parenting (or lack thereof) can be found at pretty much any ecosystem you can imagine. this is just how evolution does things. What form of animal do you know of that doesn't look after their infants to some degree?I don't think you guys are recognizing my question. I know chimps are good parents, but how did the "first" chimp(s) or chimp-like creature make it to adulthood? Maybe you're suggesting they crawled a while and walked a while through the transition phase, but that still doesn't explain (to me anyway) how the first one(s) could survive some form of infancy.
I don't think you guys are recognizing my question.
Well, evidence is just evidence and there's simply no argument about it, let alone a continuing one. Populations evolve, not individuals - so when you talk about the first human, or first chimp, there was never such a thing. Instead, a population of animals speciated and evolved over a long period of time to become a population of chimps or human.Good explanations of your perspectives... appreciate the comments. I just can't wrap my head or heart around that line of thought... I guess that's why the argument continues. I don't think trying to consolidate the two beliefs into a question of "History" works either. I suspect it will always remain about faith vs. "interpretations" of scientific evidence, and who or what do you believe.
You're kidding, right?Well, evidence is just evidence and there's simply no argument about it, let alone a continuing one.
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