Your opinion...please

[TriZz]

All,

I'm in a bit of a jam and could use the opinions of others. Please bear with me, I'll try to make this as short as possible:

I'm 24 and a bit new to Christianity. I don't know what God has to say about the following story, and maybe someone else does.

I live with my grandparents...I'm in college and they let me live with them for free so I can pay for school. My grandmother goes to get her nails done like once a week. She's become quite close to the lady who does her nails over the past years. The lady who does her nails is Vietnamese. This Vietnamese woman has a younger sister back home that wants to come live in the US. The way they've gotten most of their family over here is to arrange for someone to go there, marry the girl and bring them back after the process. My grandmother has nominated me for the position.

I thought it was a joke at first, until tonight...when I walked in the door and my grandmother handed me a photo album. I said "she's cute, who is she?" She said that it was her nail lady's sister.

This is getting to the point where I need to make a real decision about this. I don't mind doing to help someone else out...but first and foremost is God. If doing this is not going to please God then I won't do it. If it's OK, then I will because the majority of this girl's family is over here now.

The only details I know so far is that I would go over there, marry her...but then she still has to stay in her country for a year. I don't know how long I'm required to remain married to her after she arrives here.

Please help...I know that marriage is a sacred thing...and I want to help the girl out...help her get here with her family. I'm not looking for love, or the benefits of marriage from this girl...just an agreement to get her to her fam.

Thanks for your time,

 

[rainbowprism]

God takes marriage very seriously. He doesn't approve of divorce for unBiblical reasons. If you are not looking to do this for love, but rather as a favor would you be willing to stay married to this woman? Would you really be able to marry a total stranger...and even have a wife living in another country?! I see red flags all over the place here. I think you know the answer before you asked about this. Pray about it.

 

[TriZz]

...but does God not also take family very seriously? See, the thing that makes me willing to do this is that I'm not in love with this woman. I don't know her at all, in fact...I've only seen a couple of pictures of her for the first time tonight. I'll go over there...introduce myself, hit Vietnam's version of Vegas...get hitched fly back over here...live my life, then when she gets here...head to divorce court. It sounds like a nice free trip to Vietnam for me...and a family reunion for her.

 

[allieisme]

Umm..I wouldnt do it! For one, do you know if she is a christian or not? If she is not I wouldnt do it anyways, but thats is morally and ethically wrong, what your grandparents or grandparent is asking you to do.. If her nail lady wants her to come to the US she can figure it out.. I dont want to sound mean or rude in any way shape or form, but what if you do, do it, and you get busted? Do you think the nail lady would defend you, and another question to ask yourself:
Would Jesus do this? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

 

[Crazy Liz]

...but does God not also take family very seriously? See, the thing that makes me willing to do this is that I'm not in love with this woman. I don't know her at all, in fact...I've only seen a couple of pictures of her for the first time tonight. I'll go over there...introduce myself, hit Vietnam's version of Vegas...get hitched fly back over here...live my life, then when she gets here...head to divorce court. It sounds like a nice free trip to Vietnam for me...and a family reunion for her.

Sorry, but that's called immigration fraud. The INS will question each of you, probably several times, to try to find out whether this is a real marriage or just something you are doing for immigration. You will have to make up lies to tell them.

You, your grandmother and her friend could even be indicted on criminal charges like these people or this guy, or these people, although it seems like the people actually prosecuted are the ones doing it to make a profit.

Your grandmother probably doesn't realize she is asking you to commit a crime. If she realized this, do you think she would still ask you to do it?

 

[Caelum]

As stated, the motive is not a righteous one at hand although you may feel it is. It is not your fault her family abandoned their country and left loved ones behind. The system has rules in place for a reason, for reasons much more important than any that you, the girl, or her sister has. To exploit the system would be defying the authority God has created and invested in the Government. Drastic, but nevertheless; true. As it says:

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

In short, do not abuse the system God has created.

 

[rogsr]

I think that you in quite a pickle. What an interesting little situation you have found yourself in. Don't forget that, "The road to hell is paved with 'good intentions'". You should listen to that crazy liz person. Her advice is not as crazy as her screen name.
Good luck and God's peace to you

 

[scott29]

I can't believe your grandmother is putting you in this kind of position. No wonder you're under so much pressure.
It may not be easy, but you need to get yourself out of this situation. If you married this girl only to divorce her, not only would it be illegal (violating God's word about authority - as CrazyLiz and Caelum pointed out), but it would also turn one of God's greatest gifts, marriage, into a mockery. And God will not be mocked.
The fact that you are questioning this shows that the Spirit is already telling you that something isn't right. Listen to what God is trying to tell you and don't get snared in this trap.
To echo Allie, what would Jesus do?

 

[Suzannah]

My opinion:

Absolutely not. Marriage is a sacrament and is not to be used for such purposes. It is a Godly union (should be) and should not be treated so casually. Additionally what is being suggested is fraud and is illegal in the United States. If you were caught,you would go to prison. We are commanded by the Bible to adhere to the laws of our nations.

 

[desi]

Marrying her to divorce her is not something Jesus would do. If you marry her learn to love her and make the most of your marriage.

 

[Blindfaith316]

absolutely not, first of all, marriage is a sacred commitment, not to be taken lightly, secondly, divorce for unbiblical reasons is specifed in the bible as being a sin, and breaking man's laws is also wrong... I have no idea why your considering this... a free trip?

 

[TriZz]

Alot of what I hear is the "illegal" thing...which is not the case. In legal terms, this is what would be called a "loophole" which is a legal path around the restrictions of the law. We would be following and abiding by all laws.

Something doesn't sit right with me about it. And mostly it's that marriage is a sacred institution. But I'm not doing this "for marriage sake". To me, I'm looking at it as an agreement that will bring this girl with her family, in the greatest country on earth (my opinion).

I also don't know why I feel so inclined to do it. There is no benefit for me for doing this besides doing a good deed.

Thanx to all,

 

[rainbowprism]

Something doesn't sit right with me about it. And mostly it's that marriage is a sacred institution.

Not to sound flippant but that's the Holy Spirit screaming "NO" at you! He's a smart guy, you should listen to him-he's got your best interests in mind.

 

[Caelum]

Alot of what I hear is the "illegal" thing...which is not the case. In legal terms, this is what would be called a "loophole" which is a legal path around the restrictions of the law. We would be following and abiding by all laws.

Do not be mistaken, attempting to marry a foreigner for the sake of immigration and nothing more is definitely against the law. Otherwise the INS wouldn't ask you and her so many questions, and conduct ongoing investigations for such engagements. Somebody mentioned earlier, you will be forced to lie again and again and again. Lying to INS agents is against the law. Aside from the law, is lying something you really want to do being a follower of Christ?

Something doesn't sit right with me about it. And mostly it's that marriage is a sacred institution.

Indeed, don't deny the Holy Spirit's influence.

But I'm not doing this "for marriage sake". To me, I'm looking at it as an agreement that will bring this girl with her family, in the greatest country on earth (my opinion).

This is not your issue(im sure you can back out of it fairly easily), and by making it your issue you will be intentionally and knowingly going against God's word. This country is so great because we have laws that are set in place to protect us, immigration is an issue and always will be, one that is best left to the authorities, not ourselves as individuals.

I also don't know why I feel so inclined to do it. There is no benefit for me for doing this besides doing a good deed.

How firmly do you believe that something that is blatantly against God's word and His intentions for humans can be a good deed?

 

[TriZz]

When my grandmother handed me the photo album with the girl's pictures in it...I told her what I would do is ask people at my church if it was a good idea. I told my grandmother that if God says no, then I'm not going to do it.

Not one person who has responded even remotely came close to a possiblility of a "yes, it's a good thing to God" answer. The resolve is clear, and I will return the pictures to the nail lady and tell her that I can't do it because it will not please my Lord.

Although your responses have been quite firm, the question still lingers with me. Why do I feel so inclined to do this? The justification is there in my mind, but why is it there if it's SOOOOO wrong?

However, I am greatful that it didn't sit right with me. That is a gift from God and so are the people on here that took the time to read this about this strange situation and write their opinions. To all who wrote...Thank you very much.

Thanx,

 

[rainbowprism]

You're very welcome! You sound like a really compassionate person, perhaps that is why you so badly want to 'help out'. Unfortunately there are just some situations that are beyond our control and if you can't do anything about it- just pray for them!

 

[Daughter of His]

Strictily from a practical point think of your future wife. She might not have a tendancy to believe you were married and it meant nothing to you--and this could turn the right person away from you.

Marriage is a covenant and the ring on our finger is an outward sign of that covenant made before the holy God who takes pledges and covenants seriously.

You were so wise to take the time to really think about it.

 

[Crazy Liz]

As stated, the motive is not a righteous one at hand although you may feel it is. It is not your fault her family abandoned their country and left loved ones behind. The system has rules in place for a reason, for reasons much more important than any that you, the girl, or her sister has. To exploit the system would be defying the authority God has created and invested in the Government. Drastic, but nevertheless; true. As it says:

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

In short, do not abuse the system God has created.

There are (rare) times when God may call someone to break the law - especially an unjust law - to do what is right. So I somewhat disagree with Caelum. The idea that one would not be called on to do something courageous because "it is not your fault" that another person is in a certain situation is not a good argument, IMHO. It does not settle the question. God calls us to be compassionate. I think people who harbored runaway slaves in America or Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe were breaking the law responsibly. I think of how Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrestled with the ethical question of whether it was right for him, as a German citizen, to join the plot to overthrow Hitler.

I am convinced there are times when it is ethically responsible for Christians to break the law.

However, when I read this thread, what I saw was a person who did not understand he was being asked to do something illegal. There are loopholes and there are "loopholes." This one is very clearly illegal. If the mariage is not entered into in good faith with the intent to live as husband and wife, but ratehr just for the purpose of immigration, it is fraudulent. It is called a "sham marriage," and the immigrant spouse can be deported and not allowed to re-enter the US. The non-immigrant spouse can go to prison, but this rarely happens in the case of a one-time thing to help a friend, but rather it is the people who organize immigrant marriage pipelines who do go to prison. It is important to know this is illegal. Talk to an immigration lawyer about it.

OTOH, having compassion and acting compassionately is a good thing, so I can understand why TriZz feels drawn to the idea of doing a good thing for a stranger.

Here's what I would say: If you really want to marry this woman and be a real husband to her, and have compassion on her and bring her to the US, I can't say that God would never call a person to do that. I have a hard time thinking, though, that God would call you to enter into a sham marriage.

OTOH, did anybody read the book or see the movie Shadowlands?

One more question for TriZz: The picture you posted shows a young man (you, I presume) with his arms around a young lady (your girlfriend, I presume).

You used the "love" icon

to describe your feelings.

How does your relationship with this woman you know fit in with your dilemma about marrying a woman you don't know?

I can't help thinking there's something wrong with this picture.

 

[Yummi]

The justification is there in my mind, but why is it there if it's SOOOOO wrong?

All the others have said are true. I'd just add that if she is not christian (which I believe), you cannot marry her because the scripture says clearly that we must not get married with unbelievers.
And marriage is to last until death, God hates divorce. If you plan to marry and divorce after, it's utterly against God's will.

 

[bliz]

You are inclined to do this for a number of reasons:

1. you feel that this would be a good thing for this young woman and her family
2. there is someting very romantic (in the broad defination of romantic) about this
3. you want to please your Grandmom
4. you wanted to be praised for your actions

This is not a matter of this young woman loosing her life is you do not rescue her tomorrow. There are other, legal ways, for her to enter this country. You may even be able to help with those ways. If nothing else, she will need money for airfare.

What I find interesting is how quickly, in the on-line discussion at least,, you began to justify such actions and argue that you would be using a "loop hole" in the law and not actually breaking the law. Did you hear yourself? You redefined the terms to permit yourself to do what you wanted to do. I'm sure you have looked at some Christians caught in scandels and been appaled at how they have done the same thing. It always looks different when it's our lives and our issue. You were quite ready to lie to imigration officials and say "Yes, this is my wife and I love her. She sleeps on the right side of our bed." because you thought it would serve a greater good.

Don't misunderstand me: I too have found myself caught in this thinking. It was easy for me to justify my actions because it was what I thought would be best. I was quite ready to substuite my judgement for God's. Which means, that I thought I knew best in my circumstances, better than God. That's very dangerous territory!
You have had a great opportunity to learn about yourself though this experience.